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Amplification (have we gone wrong)


Toddy

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Hey all, expect to get a bit of stick for this but hey ho, its bothering me

So 20 yrs as a Bass Player, I've been very  lucky and successful, most ambitions achieved, (played every major venue in the UK)and open minded too modern ideas etc, had to play a successful event last night (*sold out last November) and in rehearsal my modern ish Bass amp packed in  ,,quick ring round, and the  drummers  brother came to the rescue with a large 80s Peavey tank and an Amp peg  cab OMFG, The frequency's were amazing, used a couple of  basses,  the active cut through  , the passive was great    I loved it, the engineer loved it, the audience went mad, and even a world class engineer in the audience gave praise, annoyingly this rig has stood unused for 20 yrs,  it was far better than any of the rigs I've owned since my Trace Elliot days in the early 90s, I have do desire to be a dinosaur, and no disrespect to the modern light stuff, but cannot these amazing sounds be reproduced, yes I've done the massive 8x10 stuff at festivals,  but to get a punch like that in a venue was phenomenal, are we on the right track ?

 

Edited by wateroftyne
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18 minutes ago, gjones said:

Can we get the sound without the weight?

A quality hybrid should hit the mark. My Mesa M6 certainly does, but it's 25 lbs.

The new GK Fusion S series looks to be seriously promising on both the weight (just 5.5 lbs) and sound fronts, but comes with a hefty price tag.

Check out the clean grit sound at 037s. Lush!

 

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I have just swapped my Mesa Boogie D800 for a Mesa Boogie Walkabout head, purely because I found the D800 felt like it lacked something! I will run it for a few weeks before coming to any conclusions.

The only class D head I have liked and kept is the Markbass LM3 which I love, a TC Electronic RH750, Ampeg SVT pro7 and Mesa Boogie D800 have all come and gone because the Markbass sounded better (to me)

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13 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

A quality hybrid should hit the mark. My Mesa M6 certainly does, but it's 25 lbs.

The new GK Fusion S series looks to be seriously promising on both the weight (just 5.5 lbs) and sound fronts, but comes with a hefty price tag.

Check out the clean grit sound at 037s. Lush!

 

I have a GK MB500 and a GKMB800 (I like them a lot) but they can't do what that Trace GP7, I played through, could do.

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When it comes to big stages I’ve found that’s when the game is given away. Whilst the new lightweight gear is plenty loud enough for those stages the older heavyweight gear just has “something” to the sound that commands those large areas in a way that the lighter gear doesn’t. 
 

That’s why I went with the Ashdown ABM series, it just delivers. Now I’m not in a band I’m offloading it all as I’m unlikely to play in a band that requires such a set up again.

Edited by Lozz196
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If I didn't live in a second floor flat, I was 25 years younger, and I didn't have an ongoing lower back issue, then it would be Ampeg valve amp all the way. However, practicality wins out... 

I do love my Genz/Barefaced set up though.... it packs what I need.

Idealism is beyond my circumstances these days! 🙂

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I have to agree with many of the comments above. I've tried lots of class d heads that have each sounded great in isolation but in a live setting none have matched my big old, heavy, unfashionable Trace heads. I concluded that I have all the amps I'll ever need. All over 25 years old and all 5 bought used for less than the cost of one 'top marque' class d.

Now cabs on the other hand.....................

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28 minutes ago, Deedee said:

I have to agree with many of the comments above. I've tried lots of class d heads that have each sounded great in isolation but in a live setting none have matched my big old, heavy, unfashionable Trace heads. I concluded that I have all the amps I'll ever need. All over 25 years old and all 5 bought used for less than the cost of one 'top marque' class d.

Now cabs on the other hand.....................

 

25 minutes ago, pbasspecial said:

Just recently changed to an old school chrome ABM 500 through a Barefaced SuperTwin. Works for me.

Well, as well as my class amps, I also have an Ashdown ABM 500 III, which I bought on Ebay for the price of a pair of Dr Martens boots (i.e. pretty expensive for a pair of shoes but dirt cheap for such a classy amp).

It sounds great!

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10 minutes ago, gjones said:

 

Well, as well as my class amps, I also have an Ashdown ABM 500 III, which I bought on Ebay for the price of a pair of Dr Martens boots (i.e. pretty expensive for a pair of shoes but dirt cheap for such a classy amp).

It sounds great!

Or you could get the best of both...Screenshot_20200202-180502.png.2816f92171a97524c880b36dd69d9f5f.png

That'd give any rig a run for it's money and it'll fit in your back pocket... ;)

 

 

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I'm not a bass player (reggae/soul sound rig) - had a very nice Crown class D, but sold it on, on the other hand, my Matamps and I are joined at the hip (300 bass, 120 mid/top) - small system for me, but as it never leaves my lounge, my two B/F Dubsters and my pair of Mackie C200 will do most play out gigs if needed......(old skool sound - mmmm)

😎

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2 hours ago, Toddy said:

Hey all, expect to get a bit of stick for this but hey ho, its bothering me

So 20 yrs as a Bass Player, I've been very  lucky and successful, most ambitions achieved, (played every major venue in the UK)and open minded too modern ideas etc, had to play a successful event last night (*sold out last November) and in rehearsal my modern ish Bass amp packed in  ,,quick ring round, and the  drummers  brother came to the rescue with a large 80s Peavey tank and an Amp peg  cab OMFG, The frequency's were amazing, used a couple of  basses,  the active cut through  , the passive was great    I loved it, the engineer loved it, the audience went mad, and even a world class engineer in the audience gave praise, annoyingly this rig has stood unused for 20 yrs,  it was far better than any of the rigs I've owned since my Trace Elliot days in the early 90s, I have do desire to be a dinosaur, and no disrespect to the modern light stuff, but cannot these amazing sounds be reproduced, yes I've done the massive 8x10 stuff at festivals,  but to get a punch like that in a venue was phenomenal, are we on the right track ?

 

I love that this was edited by one of the mods :)

As a flag waving, T-shirt wearing techy I'll bite. Mic that rig up and pump it through a really good Class D, Neo speakered, festival sized PA rig and it'd sound just as good. So it isn't class D or lightweight neo speakers, it is something else.

I'll tell you my theory, in the olden days speakers and amps were designed to enhance your bass sound (guitar sound even more so but this is Basschat) They didn't need to be clean and undistorted they just had to sound good. People built cabs and tried them out with bass and the ones that sounded best or most popular got made and sold. Theory wasn't really worked out until the 70's and didn't get through to instrument amp design until much later. The truth is we don't much like uncoloured sound for bass and most of us aren't very good at finding the eq to achieve it so a nice old Trace that gives us the Trace sound sounds better to us than our own attempts to recreate it. 

The second thing is that we like things that are loud, too loud to be sensible but there is joy in just cranking up an old monolith of a speaker with an amp with the frequency response curve of the Cairngorms. Sensibly we'd scrap the backline, use in-ears or at least floor monitors and let the PA do it's job but for some that's no fun. 

There's also a lot of self delusion, I used to have fun in my old rear wheel drive cars with cross ply tyres sliding round bends double declutching because the synchromesh was rubbish but I can't really pretend those cars were 'better' than those I drive now. 

One day soon the computer modelling will be so good we won't be able to tell the difference but that is still a little way away. Until then if you love an old Peavey stack and don't mind shifting it then the important thing isn't technical perfection so go for it and enjoy.  

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