Naetharu Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Hi folks, I'm being driven mad by my bands 2nd guitarist and felt like I'd share. He's got a nasty big Marshall solid state head and he sets the thing up so that he's got the contour control maxed out scooping all of the mid range. Add massive gain and we have sonic mush. Then because he can't hear himself properly he ends up cranking his volume more and more to compensate. The guy is driving me crazy with it. I've tried explaining the issue to him but he just retorts that it is 'his tone'.... Anyone else been in this scenario? Did you manage to get it sorted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Most threads of this ilk generally advise to tell him to take "his tone" elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Been there & left. The 2nd option is to give your tone very little low end & plenty of mids. Go for as nasal a sound as possible so you can fit in the guitard's scooped tone. Maybe play an octave up even (& use chords). The 3rd option is to offer to swap instruments with the wannabe bassist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) It's difficult isn't it, but it really does come down to deciding if you can put up with it or not. People are unlikely to change their opinions and arguing with them just flares up the ego and makes it even less likely they will change. I'd just leave... But if you really like the band then you'll have to put up with it. It's about finding a band where everyones idea of what their instruments should sound like works together. If someone told me to change my bass tone away from one I though sounded better I wouldn't, and if they insisted then I'd leave and they can find someone else who sounds the way they want. The last thing you want is to be performing in front of people with a sound you think is s**t... Edited December 16, 2015 by CamdenRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Thankfully our nominee left of his own accord. Now a power trio with a guitarist who turns down the bass on his amp to leave space for me. Brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaytonaRik Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Been there and sadly if they're that stubborn there's nothing you can do or say to change their mind. I voted with my feet. It's even more irritating when they insist on using "their tone" completely out of context - the guy I knew was a death/thrash metal fan and I will admit that while his sound was great in that context, it didn't really work in, for example, a Def Leppard or Pat Benatar track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='ead' timestamp='1450253834' post='2930876'] ...with a guitarist who turns down the bass on his amp to leave space for me. [/quote] He's a keeper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Just leave before it drives you completely mad. What does the rest of your band think? Surely your 1st guitarist would be just as annoyed as you! Maybe he just doesn't realise how serious this is and needs to be told that if he doesn't rethink his tone then he'll need to find another band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 There's few of us can stay with a band which is doing less than it's best, whatever the niggle. I'm one for talking about things, talk to the other band members first, one of them may have an opinion and/or the ability to influence the errant guitarist. A band only works if you work together. State your problems simply and calmly if you get compromise then great. If not you have to decide whether it is something you can put up with or leave. One word of warning, once you have raised an issue you can't put it back in the box. It looks like I might be leaving my band today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattpt85 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I had that briefly with a new guitarist. I mentioned light heartedly that it sounds a bit heavy metal for what we are playing and luckily he agreed, came back next week with a more acceptable eq setting! Sounds much better. Now I've just got to get him to stop playing the second set on his bloody lead boost channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Our guitarist always asks me if he is too loud and says turn the bass up a bit as he likes to hear the bass in music 👍👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 A big part of the trouble with that tone is that he probably has no idea how it sounds in the mix. I'll never forget the first time I experienced this, a band had set up, all great gear, triggered drums, as each one of them did a line check the volume was huge. As soon as they started the first number it was as if someone had thrown a switch - the perceived sound level dropped leaving almost unaccompanied screaming vocals. Try recording the band from the back of the room so he can hear what the audience will be hearing - hopefully he won't be able to hear himself which is when you can reinforce the new eq message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Talk about it and decide who is willing to adapt their tone to suit - you or him. The ideal answer would be both. The overall sound of the band will improve as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Ah, bedroom tone strikes again. It can be hard to get guys to listen to the entire band if they've spent a long time playing in isolation and trying to fill the low frequencies themselves. Just ask him to listen to the tone in the context of the band sound, not his tone on it's own. Maybe see if he'll stand across the room from his amp next time you rehearse and listen to everybody, not just himself. Try to stress, as politely as possible, that he's got to have the interest of the sound of the whole band at heart, not just his tone in isolation. You'll probably get more success if the other guitarist works with you on this. You could ask him to sit down and listen while you, the drummer and the other guitarist play through a song. Then get the other guitarist to play through this dude's rig. You'll probably go from something quite pleasant to mush. Hopefully he'll be able to hear the difference. If not... well, there are always other bands. My current gig is on guitar and, being a bass player, I generally take a little low out and boost the mids a smidge on my guitar amp so our bassist has a bit of room. I don't use a lot of gain either and we're a doomy metal band tuned down to A. It's amazing the amount of guitarists who compliment the tone. Edited December 16, 2015 by Doctor J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Have you mentioned this to the other members? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Just realised - is this one and the same guitarist: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/274696-help-with-a-new-guitar/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/274696-help-with-a-new-guitar/[/url] ? So he knows nothing about guitars but knows exactly what "his tone" is? If so, your problem is greater than I originally thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Been there, also been in a band with a guitarist who had a really great tone, trouble was, he had to be louder than the rest of the band. I think it`s something to do with ego, the old "my tone" thing, and a lot to do with guitarists who use 412s. I say this as never had this problem with guitarists who use 112 or 212 combos, only the ones who use 412s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 "his" tone is fine if he wants to play by himself. Record a practice and play it back to him. If he still doesn't get it - bye bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 He's actually missing out a lot on what his sound could be. Mids (especially the higher mids) assuming he's playing a few solos, will improve all the harmonics, especially if he's using single coils. From what you describe, it sounds like he'd have a better sound with everything flat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I blame Metallica. Ever since word got out that James Hetfield favoured a 'scooped' tone, the world has been full of guitarists turning the mids down to zero and everything else up to eleven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Anyone, bassist included, who talks about 'my tone' in that way ... bye bye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Yeah, but even Hetfield stopped that nonsense about 25 years ago when he learned how much fun it is to get paid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote]Anyone, bassist included, who talks about 'my tone' in that way ... bye bye[/quote] +1. Selfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairychris Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Having spent a lot of time in 2 guitar bands as a guitarist, I always found the guitars sit better with one more mid-focused, and the other slightly scooped. Note: slightly, as in just for emphasis, and preferably following the amp's strengths (Marshall JCM800 and Mesa Dual Rectifier is a fantastic combination, for example). Admittedly I got to know that through a lot of trial and even more error. However.... sounds like this isn't what's happening here! You and the other guitarist really need to have a word and say that it'll sound like dogpoo live, and any recording engineer worth his/her salt would make those changes to the amp anyway before tracking. Ah well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin8708 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Second Guitarist - that means your in a four piece band , if not more . What do the other members think of the over all sound , especially the first / lead guitar ? Last band I was in the guitarist used to play with a £50 guitar that never stayed in tune through a collection of pedals that did God -knows -what into a trannie amp that whistled like an old kettle . He was a really nice bloke , and the band was never going to really take off , so I just got on with it and made occasional jokes about his use of "alternate tunings " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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