tauzero Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1436121167' post='2815166'] It wasn't you I find your posts genuinely funny, this guy only [b][i]thinks[/i][/b] he's funny. [/quote] Can't be me then, I'm a comedy genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 [quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1436206290' post='2815997']...but I gather it's all good. [/quote] [i]Jeg er enig i at omgivelsene er en god egg, med rette stor tillit og talent i bøtter og spann; nok til å risikere utredning, og så kan børste av noen snidy vittigheter med letthet. Han er usannsynlig å vinne en "volum krig", selv om ..![/i] It may have lost something in translation, but I wouldn't know..! Yes, basically just confirming that ambient is OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1436206898' post='2816010'] [i]Jeg er enig i at omgivelsene er en god egg, med rette stor tillit og talent i bøtter og spann; nok til å risikere utredning, og så kan børste av noen snidy vittigheter med letthet. Han er usannsynlig å vinne en "volum krig", selv om ..![/i] It may have lost something in translation, but I wouldn't know..! Yes, basically just confirming that ambient is OK. [/quote] I don't suppose it lost [b]anything[/b] in translation, as it means: "[i]I agree that surroundings are a good knife's edge, rightfully big trust and talent in buckets and nine kilograms; enough to risk thorough survey, and so can brush off some[/i] ... [snidy] ... [i]sally. He is unlikely to win a "volume war", even though..![/i]" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 [quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1436207935' post='2816026'] I don't suppose it lost [b]anything[/b] in translation, as it means: "[i]I agree that surroundings are a good knife's edge, rightfully big trust and talent in buckets and nine kilograms; enough to risk thorough survey, and so can brush off some[/i] ... [snidy] ... [i]sally. He is unlikely to win a "volume war", even though..![/i]" [/quote] Yes, that's exactly what I meant to say, only better..! Thanks for that; I'll call upon your redactional skills next time I need a thesis written. Cheers..! (... [i]but we'd best let others get on with the original topic, perhaps..?[/i] ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1436197558' post='2815862'] Well, thanks for that (assuming you weren't 'trying' to be sarcastic..? ). I'd agree that ambient is a Good Egg, with deservedly great confidence and talent in spades; enough to risk exposition, and so can brush off any snidy quips with ease. He's unlikely to win a 'volume war', though..! [/quote] I'm actually seriously lacking in the self confidence department. Your volume war comment is absolutely spot on though. I hate loud music, this is what the examiner said about my stuff regarding volume, and how it's intended to be heard. The Eno quote made me smile, and happy. [attachment=195779:Screen Shot 2015-07-06 at 20.12.09.png] Edited July 6, 2015 by ambient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1436210078' post='2816060']...this is what the examiner said about my stuff... [/quote] [Robert Robinson] Ah, but is he qualified to criticise, eh..? There's the rub..! ( ... [i]taps side of nose knowingly[/i] ...) [/Robert Robinson] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1436133397' post='2815309'] Constructive criticism doesn't need to offer advice on how to improve, it just needs to highlight areas for improvement. [/quote] [b]Module 3[/b]: [font=courier new,courier,monospace]Highlighting area for improvement / Example:[/font] [i]You look like a total plank in that hat[/i] [b]Module 4[/b]: [font=courier new,courier,monospace]Offering advice on how to achieving improvement / Example:[/font] [i]You look like a total plank in that hat[/i][i]. Take it off.[/i] No millinery skills required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) I think before you offer criticism you should ask yourself whether you're qualified to make that criticism. And if you're not; whether that criticism is because something is wrong or whether the critisicm is because you just don't like what they're doing and would do it differently if it were you. Then remind yourself - it isn't you doing it. . Edited July 6, 2015 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Mark Kermode wrote an excellent book about (movie) criticism. Its well worth reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 After rather a long time on Basschat I've seen that all anyone needs to criticise is an opinion. But life is like that, isn't it? You get to know whose opinions are worth listening to and whose aren't, but expertise generally isn't a prerequisite to telling someone they're doing it wrong. I tend to tell people I prefer [i]xyz[/i] rather than your [i]abc[/i] is crap. That way you can discuss differences in opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 If anyone competes in any musical field (brass band, dance ect) they'll be used to receiving a critique of their performance. Critiques from judges can vary immensly on the same performance. Take x-factor for example. Whatever you think of the program it's a good example of how different people will be looking at different aspects of your performance. Certain aspects will be obvious to the lay person, and some will be undetectable to anyone who has never been in a band and found themselves giving that sideways ("wtf is going on") look across at the drummer. Criticism is always opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 To answer the OP's question: Think of it this way; if they did then it'd be an awful lot quieter around here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 [quote name='M@23' timestamp='1436132742' post='2815306'] In my opinion, because, as a non musician, it probably wouldn't be constructive criticism as you can't offer any helpful advice. [/quote] I respectfully disagree... before I became a musician I could tell if someone was playing a bum note or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1436274583' post='2816632'] I respectfully disagree... before I became a musician I could tell if someone was playing a bum note or not! [/quote] So could I, but can't since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@23 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1436274583' post='2816632'] I respectfully disagree... before I became a musician I could tell if someone was playing a bum note or not! [/quote] That's what I said! Haha. I said something along the lines of 'if you can hear it, then you're qualified. Most punters could pick out a bum note in a guitar solo. The bit you quoted, the point I wanted to make was, for example; that although my wife could pick out a wrong note if I were playing a guitar solo; she could not tell me that it was because I was in the wrong key, or that I played the wrong arpegio or whatever. Therefore, although she can hear the bum note, she can't constructively criticise because that is the extent of her knowledge. Most musicians know they have hit a bum note, and without advice on how not to next time, what good is some randomer pointing it out going to do? BTW, my wife probably would give me stick for hitting a bum note too! ;-) Edited July 7, 2015 by M@23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 'Don't give up your day job.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 An interesting perspective: When I published my Paul Chambers biography, I had some minor criticism along the lines of 'who does hie think he is, commenting on Paul Chambers's playing'. It is entirely legitimate to question the qualifications of an individual in terms of the veracity of their arguments in any given subject but it is equally legitimate for a 'critic' to dismiss the argument that they cannot comment because they are not a player. They are, in fact, a listener and it is in the listening to music that it's worth is found and not in the playing of it. A player can be a listener at the same time but there are circumstances where this is irrelevant e.g. a trombonist in an orchestra cannot hear what the whole orchestra sounds like because he is surrounded by brass players and cannot hear the strings properly. More importantly, there are many, MANY musicians who, as players, are unable to recognise their shortcomings until their attention is drawn to them. In order for this to be the case, the poor player must also, by definition, be poor listeners. Ergo, a good listener who cannot play is a better critic than a player who does not listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 The thing is with music we all have ears and it's such a consumable thing - we all know what we like. Same with food, how we like our tea made etc etc. with music if we hear a bum note we all know it's a bum note classically trained or otherwise - if food has too much salt we can all pretty much tell on the first taste. If you happen to be a musician or a chef and you don't meet someones expectation expect them to give their opinion - be that constructively or otherwise. How you (we) deal with that is another story! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1436359424' post='2817456'] ...there are many, MANY musicians who, as players, are unable to recognise their shortcomings until their attention is drawn to them. [/quote] That is so true, and not just in the sphere of music. Everyone's an expert. I blame cable TV. [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1436359424' post='2817456'] ...the poor players must also, by definition, be poor listeners. Ergo, a good listener who cannot play is a better critic than a player who does not listen. [/quote] I've played with [i]so[/i] many players who don't (or can't, or won't) listen. Picking up an instrument doesn't automatically qualify you as an authority. Edited July 9, 2015 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 http://wiltonelder.com/what-everybody-ought-to-know-about-active-music-listening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1436440022' post='2818125'] http://wiltonelder.com/what-everybody-ought-to-know-about-active-music-listening [/quote] Very good. Practically everyone I've ever been in covers bands with would have benefited from this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Some people know absolutely nothing about music even though they think they think they know everything. They are not fit to open their mouth and give an opinion. Like my mother, for instance. The acid test is do they buy James Last records? If the answer is yes, ignore them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1436445940' post='2818199'] Some people know absolutely nothing about music even though they think they think they know everything. [/quote] Trouble is, I suspect this represents the majority of those who 'listen' to (or more accurately 'consume') music. But on the other hand you wouldn't want to restrict music access to those who actually know something about it... would you? Edited July 9, 2015 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 But if I had the capacity to clearly know what I should be playing but lacked the chops to carry it out wouldn't that make me a poor player but a good listener? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL POSTERS Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 [quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1436445940' post='2818199'] The acid test is do they buy James Last records? If the answer is yes, ignore them. [/quote] [size=4]+1[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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