Toddy Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Hey Crew, not to bore you with detail, but regularly do a half hour warm up gig for a show which plays a lot of big venues / theatre and really fortunate to have use of the really good gear and crew (engineer is a diamond),,monitors are so good "Nexo" we even ditched the backline amps and just DI Guitar and Bass Been happy with this for a while now and yesterday someone let me have a go on one of the Line 6 Variax Basses,, which really got me thinking,, If thru digital technology I could produce consistent sounds (the same as a keyboard does) and a bass had a XLR Out,, could just walk on to these shows, plug in a XLR and BANG,,good tone, no pedals, combine this with something like my trusty jazz (and pushing it here) had a built in tuner, that really would be a useful tool. Has this been done?, seems a logical step so guess someone is looking at it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) I am pretty sure Jaydee basses have an XLR output. Edited November 17, 2013 by paul h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Wal definitely did XLR + 1/4" as I 'think' did Overwater and my Washburn AB20 acoustic bass has a 1/4" and XLR. Sure there are others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 XLR outputs were a standard feature on the old Jaydee Supernatural basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Alembic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddy Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 Cheers Guys, that is a great Heads up, some high end stuff there tho, more thinking along the lines off what Line 6 were trying to achieve, Built in modelled Bass sounds, XLR Out, always been a fan of traditional stuff, however something on those lines would be so cool for these types of gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 As has been said Overwater basses have XLR outputs. However you do have to plug a jack into the normal socket to switch on the electronics and make it work, which slightly defeats the object! Being able to DI and not need an amp could be great, but it relies on the monitoring system being first class, and the reality is that too many of us on here mostly play venues where monitoring is barely up the job of making the vocals audible let alone being able to work with more extreme instruments like the bass guitar. Also never under-estimate how short-sighted companies like Line6 actually are. For instance they produce an excellent range of digital wireless systems and an other excellent range of digital effects and amp modellers, but they still haven't got around to producing a system where the two can be connected together digitally which would cut out a whole stage of DA and AD conversion and improve both sound and latency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydye Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 The new acg uber has xlr out and is mega nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Some versions of the Hohner B2A (Steinberger design) have an XLR out. Never used it on mine though............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 [quote name='andydye' timestamp='1384685224' post='2279365'] The new acg uber has xlr out and is mega nice! [/quote] Beat me too it Andy. I guess you would need some sort of Line Driver with an XLR out, so does that mean the bass has to be active, (ruling out just shoving it in a Fender Jazz)? I suppose a passive circuit as in passive Di boxes would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qlank Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Could you just use a lead with a regular 1/4' jack to stick in the bass and an XLR on the other end to go to the DI. Or maybe I missed something ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danweb22 Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Most Wal's I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Also Pangbourne I believe. All these basses had a pre-amp of some kind and/or an impedance transformer, to drive the low impedance balanced output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddy Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 Discussion with our guitar builder this morning, happened to be passing for a cuppa,, for the price of a new Bell Plate,, thoughts are to use the jazz active pre amp and stick an XLR out,, should work??,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon1964 Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 [quote name='casapete' timestamp='1384685448' post='2279368'] Some versions of the Hohner B2A (Steinberger design) have an XLR out. Never used it on mine though............ [/quote] +1 - my B2A has an XLR output and I've never used it either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I've often wondered why all guitar makers don't use XLRs. Who would consider an unbalanced mic for serious band use? Yet we're all happy to connect yards of unbalanced cables to our instruments and then some of us worry about noise and cavity-screening as a result. I'm sure the answer lies in history but I'm a bit surprised we haven't snapped out of it by now. One day perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myke Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1384690392' post='2279437'] I've often wondered why all guitar makers don't use XLRs. Who would consider an unbalanced mic for serious band use? Yet we're all happy to connect yards of unbalanced cables to our instruments and then some of us worry about noise and cavity-screening as a result. I'm sure the answer lies in history but I'm a bit surprised we haven't snapped out of it by now. One day perhaps. [/quote] But it's also on the side of amp makers too. A lot of amps don't have the Balance bit in them so even if the guitar was balanced and so was the cable the amp still wouldn't be. Unless like the OP you're using a DI. Anyway OT so my bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Agreed. It is a bit chicken-and-egg, but it was sorted out for mics so why not guitars as well? Alternatively, TRS jacks could be used for mix-n-match situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Using a balanced line to connect your bass to the amp is potentially a great idea from the PoV of sound and also the fact that you could then use phantom power to run anything on the bass that required it - pre-amp, LEDs etc. However there is just so much equipment that simply would have to be changed for this system to have any chance of getting even a foot in the door. Effects would all have to be DI level and balanced (or run from a dedicated unbalanced loop on the amp which would't be ideal). It would require a high profile manufacturer of both basses and amps (or several manufacturers working in partnership) to start employing the system and for some time at least all the products would have to have a way of working with conventional instrument level unbalanced signals. And if you want to see just how much inertia there is in the world of musical instrument technology, just look at MIDI. A communication system that was designed to work with early 80s computer technology and was compromised from the start in order to keep costs down, and is still going today, simply because of the amount of legacy gear that uses it. There have been a couple of attempts to update or replace it, but neither have got very far. Or look at amp to speaker connections. In an ideal world they should all be made with Speakon Connectors (or at least anything capable of handling 100W and over) but we still see new amps and cabs being produced with jack connections only. I can't see balanced line and XLR connectors being used on anything other than specialised basses, and then always in conjunction with the more "conventional" unbalanced jack connectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I believe the 1/4" phone jack was what was available in a cheap and plentiful supply when electric guitars were really being started big-time. Does the job but not actually ideal. The XLR setup allows balanced (as does running a stereo 1/4" connector) cabling which is far more efficient, although IMHO you have to get over about 30 feet cable length before you can really hear it in most applications - I once made a cable of about 35' from decent quality cable and Neutrik jacks and you could hear the lack of tone. The XLR connector is also more efficient as the contact area is greater, and it's a heavier duty connector.. this can be a double edged sword, however, as I have broken/damaged a few 1/4" connections in gigging scenarios while XLR might have meant more damage to the gear. I have a Progress III by Overwater which, as BigRedX says, has 1/4" and XLR with the electronics being switched on the jack; has anyone ever come across a panel-mount XLR socket which handles 3 contacts and still switches? There have been so many of these permutations in 1/4" so I've probably just missed it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Wal basses have an XLR balanced line output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songofthewind Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Bass>Zoom B3>amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddy Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 Ok, an experiment is in progress, donated my Active Ibanex SRX705 to the builder who is going to put an XLR out into the back cavity plate, shouldn't be a long job, and will let you know how it goes,, as Bigred x has mentioned lots of potential options, and as its going to the desk, the engineer will be able to use the desk effects to pipe back to me in the monitor, and has phantom power options., could always just have a small DI box on my strap suppose, but what's the fun in that lol.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Toddy' timestamp='1384694855' post='2279512'] Ok, an experiment is in progress, donated my Active Ibanex SRX705 to the builder who is going to put an XLR out into the back cavity plate, shouldn't be a long job, and will let you know how it goes,, as Bigred x has mentioned lots of potential options, and as its going to the desk, the engineer will be able to use the desk effects to pipe back to me in the monitor, and has phantom power options., could always just have a small DI box on my strap suppose, but what's the fun in that lol.... [/quote] Good luck with the monitoring. IME on small systems butting the bass through it plays havoc with the other signals, and unless everyone is getting their own personal monitor mix can compromise monitoring of the vocals in particular. I've played on some big stages where it is necessary for everything to go through the foldback simply because even a big bass rig can't cover the whole stage area, but these have always been accompanied by some serious side-fills that put most instrument speaker stacks to shame, and a separate monitor engineer on stage to make sure the foldback mix is right. Edit: And make sure that unless you are going to be using phantom power to run the electronics on your bass, that you're tech puts in a suppressor to remove it at source, because the last thing you want is 48v frying the electrics in your bass. Edited November 17, 2013 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I can't see what advantage you get putting an XLR socket (which is a lot bigger than a jack socket) on a bass that you wouldn't get by putting a stereo jack socket on - all the XLR socket gives you is 3 lines, same as the stereo connector. The thing that makes a difference is having the low impedance balanced output. I guess the only thing I can see is that if you changed it, you would then try to plug in an ordinary jack socket and it wouldn't work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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