Did anyone ever build a Bass with an XLR output?

[Woodinblack]

Actually coming back to what you said originally, my darkfire (guitar) does have a low impedance dual output as well as a direct digital output. It even has a tuner (well, I guess it doesn't, it just tunes).

Is that the sort of thing you want?

I think the only reason you don't have that in basses is that a lot of guitar / bass players are in the 'if it wasn't good enough for my grandfather' school of technology, which is the opposite of (most) keyboard players.

[Toddy]

Just Info, yes everyone does have separate monitor mixes, and the Nexo Monitors are about fifteen hundred quid each,(five of these) so perform a lot better than the 2x10 Ashdown, done loads of shows now using just monitoring, Guitarist does the same, works a treat,, Drummer has own In ear monitor feed, really happy how this all works,, next logical step seems to have balanced line straight out the Bass,, effects can be run back to me thru the desk,( only use Chorus for these shows, and usual comps/gates the engineer adds in.),,

[xilddx]

A mate of mine has John Entwistle's '70s Jazz. It had been modded with an XLR.

[lojo]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1384687980' post='2279401']
+1 - my B2A has an XLR output and I've never used it either!
[/quote]

same here

[Bassman Sam]

I believe that it's an option on Status basses.

[FlatEric]

Peter Cook, Axis range - although in very limited numbers.

I believe he did a few others, along with many other UK custom builders.

Cheers.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1384692030' post='2279470']
Using a balanced line to connect your bass to the amp is potentially a great idea from the PoV of sound and also the fact that you could then use phantom power to run anything on the bass that required it - pre-amp, LEDs etc.

However there is just so much equipment that simply would have to be changed for this system to have any chance of getting even a foot in the door. Effects would all have to be DI level and balanced (or run from a dedicated unbalanced loop on the amp which would't be ideal). It would require a high profile manufacturer of both basses and amps (or several manufacturers working in partnership) to start employing the system and for some time at least all the products would have to have a way of working with conventional instrument level unbalanced signals.

And if you want to see just how much inertia there is in the world of musical instrument technology, just look at MIDI. A communication system that was designed to work with early 80s computer technology and was compromised from the start in order to keep costs down, and is still going today, simply because of the amount of legacy gear that uses it. There have been a couple of attempts to update or replace it, but neither have got very far.

Or look at amp to speaker connections. In an ideal world they should all be made with Speakon Connectors (or at least anything capable of handling 100W and over) but we still see new amps and cabs being produced with jack connections only.

I can't see balanced line and XLR connectors being used on anything other than specialised basses, and then always in conjunction with the more "conventional" unbalanced jack connectors.
[/quote]

All good points. Sad isn't it?

[LukeFRC]

so you're basically after a bass that has something like a line 6 pod built in? then use a balanced line out for PA? (and power it off the phantom power I guess?)


... or mounting an active DI box inside your bass?

[LukeFRC]

mind you - I used to do PA for a fella who had some fancy tailor acoustic - it had a stereo jack to XLR cable with it and apparently would give me a balanced output....
that sucked! My cheap behrinher DI box sounded much better.

[Toddy]

Just toying with ideas Luke, but yes, if it worked well, would be very useful.

[Grissle]

If you're just wanting to plug in and go, people have been doing this for 30 years. All you need is a nice DI box. The REDDI is magic in a box. There's also the Avalon U5 and Radial units to name a few.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Grissle

[Mikkoantt]

Anthony Jackson's Fodera Presentation I and II have XLR out and it's all passive instrument without any pot's.

[DolganoFF]

One of the guitarist I played with, has an Ibanez acoustic guitar (don't remember the model, something not too high-end). It has both phone jack and XLR outs (but won't take power from phantom source, a battery is needed in both cases)

[GeeCee]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1384680629' post='2279315']
XLR outputs were a standard feature on the old Jaydee Supernatural basses.
[/quote] Still are for all but the Roadie and Celeste series, but it's not a balanced line out. Just a Cannon alternative to the standard jack. I believe the early Overwater's were balanced (like Wals).

Edited November 18, 2013 by GeeCee

[chaypup]

Bit late to this party but my Thunder IIA has XLR out.

[Toddy]

Thanks for all the info guys,, really useful,just to clarify, my current rig for this gig,, is Bass into DI, to Desk, but if you see my opening comments, with modern tech, wanted a bass with some built in modelling,and DI out,, due to the use of great monitoring to make this possible. same as plugging a keyboard in really!,,its given some great comments and thoughts tho, thanks!..

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Toddy' timestamp='1384812100' post='2281115']...same as plugging a keyboard in really!,,its given some great comments and thoughts tho, thanks!..
[/quote]

Good evening, Toddy...

Have you seen these..?

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/222593-are-bass-synths-really-this-good-nice-pins-too/page__view__findpost__p__2279770"]The future for bass..?[/url]

...especially the comments at the end of the second one. Quiver...

[Toddy]

Hey Dad3353,, I had not seen this,,Wowcha....that's some kit....so lets incorporate that Trillian tech into a real Bass,,And that's what im talking about..with that you could have switches on the bass for acoustic, synth, anything,, xlr out..Thats a Tool for the job! (Quiver indeed at those comments),, pretty sure Leo would say,, about blinkin time!

[Dad3353]

Trilian costs around 220€. Remind me again how much a half-decent db costs..? A set of strings for same, how much..? Oh, I see. Perhaps I should have listened to Mother and kept on with the keyboard lessons, eh..?

[Phil Starr]

It's an interesting technical challenge to implement an 'XLR' feed from a guitar. There are several advantages and you could have some or all of them.

Better and locking connector
Balanced line for lower noise induced in lead
Balanced system throughout with lower noise from the bass
Lower impedance and compatibility with mics

If you just want a better more secure connector then just removing the jack and putting an XLR is a really simple job for any tech but there will be no change in sound which would probably be better by using a short jack to a DI box.

It would also be relatively simple to convert to a balanced line inside the bass by putting a small matching transformer between the controls and the output socket. Effectively the working part of your DI is moved inside the electronics cavity of your bass. These are mass produced as mic matching transformers and cost about £10. This gives you all the electrical noise rejection of balanced line from the bass onwards so you could run absurdly long leads if you wanted. Is this what your tech is doing or is he/she just replacing the socket? This is how you would do it with a passive bass or an active one where you wanted to keep the electronics. If you were designing from scratch you'd do the electronics differently. Wonder how the various makes mentioned achieve a balanced output, if they do.

Most humbucking pups could be adapted to have a balanced output. P-pups would be a particular doddle. This would give even better hum and noise rejection and a much cleaner feed to the PA, Again you'd have to adapt the electronics but the loss of noise would be worth it in my opinion.

The other difference between a mic feed and a guitar feed is the impedance. 600ohms for a mic and around 8,000ohms for a typical bass, because bass pups have a lot more and bigger turns than a mic' coil. All those turns of wire have inductance that filter out high frequencies. Reducing the number of turns means lower output so amps would need more gain and I doubt a 600ohm balanced bass pup would have enough output to be practical. You don't need to go up to 18,000Hz like a mic but 8kohms is a compromise between output, signal to noise, and gain needed from guitar and bass amps which dates back to the 1940's which we only do because that's the way Leo did it in the first electric basses. I wonder what the ideal impedance would be?

Forgive me, I'm such a nerd. In a practical sense find out if your tech is just changing your socket, I'd say no point as you'd be better using jack to DI and running as much balanced line as possible. If they are putting in a matching transformer then that should work well but check the low frequency response of the transformer, one designed for a vocal mic may well roll off at 80Hz ish.

[Toddy]

Thanks Phil, will pass all that info on,, thanks for taking the time to reply..

[Stag]

Jaydees deffo have it. A mate of mine had the Mark King sig and that had an XLR out prominently on the front of the bass, if memory serves me well.

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1384680754' post='2279318']
Alembic.
[/quote]
Alembic Series I & II basses do have an xlr socket but it is a 5 pin switchcraft socket not 3 pin one and provides 36v power to the bass brings back separate outs for neck and bridge pickups. As they can do whatever a customer wants, within reason, for a custom order someone could specifiy 3 pin DI socket.

Jazzyvee

[BigRedX]

Thinking about it a bass with a normal jack output and a DI box is more versatile.

[Toddy]

...

Edited November 20, 2013 by Toddy