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Do I want to sell my Bergs and go Barefaced?

fretmeister

By fretmeister,
in Amps and Cabs

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machinehead Mentor

machinehead

Posted
Posted

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1381609702' post='2241466']
Gotta say, I've seen 2 of these BF cabs.
The other was in a well known bass shop, and the owner was of the opinion that it wasn't worth what it had been bought for.
[/quote]

Maybe something to do with the fact that the "well known bass shop" can't sell barefaced cabs? <_<

Frank.

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ambient Grand Master

ambient

Posted
Posted (edited)

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1381619262' post='2241589']
Maybe something to do with the fact that the "well known bass shop" can't sell barefaced cabs? <_<

Frank.
[/quote]

Or just plain doesn't like them and thinks they're actually over priced ?

Edited by ambient
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IanA Mentor

IanA

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The well known bass shop owner does have very good ears and knows what works and what doesn't, the shop is expressing the same point of view as many others, that just does not fit with what bf fans want to hear. Incidentally there are lots of manufacturers who approach that shop wanting their kit to be stocked, some get a yes, others .......
I have never received anything other than objective advice when I have shopped there, sometimes a little to bluntly but hey ho

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Prime_BASS Experienced

Prime_BASS

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1381580018' post='2240885']

Will one BF cab really match an ampeg 6x10 and I fail to see Mark bass beI Can't hear the nuances of myself playing through my stuffng not nearly an equivalent either, I just don't.
[/quote]

Alex has already answered this but I was mainly referring to the BF '69er cab which is a 6x10. So equivalent size, although lighter, cheaper, and louder, and before some one chimes in with "oh but a cab can be too loud" load of crap, it's more it's lows will keep up with the mids long after the Ampeg.
The markbass comment. That was of an opinion, I've had some while they are nice sounding, great punch etc. The BF range (or an equivalent 1x12, 1x15) is all together lighter and louder, and while the sound is pretty similar, I prefer the BFs as a lot of the MB cabs I tried had a terrible low mid boom.


I'll admit there was something about the compact I didn't like (although I had 3) and the midget was something too small (for me atkeast) to use as a standard alone cab and I feel the new Super Compact has rectified that (for me atleast)

A big test on volume and sound was at rehearsals. Normally I use my GB head through a big peavey 8x10 which is fine, I can hear myself fine but I can't hear the nuances of all my gear and myself, so very little definition. And I do try and EQ the head to make it audible but no matter what I did I just couldn't get the sound out. I use a low gain drive all the time, so I like to gear it, if I can't it's pointless obviously.
Played rehearsal with the BF and it's amazingly loud, loud enough for the room with some headroom to spare. Dispersion is great, I wasn't infront of it and I can still hear the mids, mainly because they haven't been lost in the mess of speakers and ports and reflections. I cab hear the grind of the drive, I want to hear it for Christ sake and I should be able to. I want it there in the mix, I don't hav
. It on for my health.

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Musicman20 Veteran

Musicman20

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Posted

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1381619262' post='2241589']


Maybe something to do with the fact that the "well known bass shop" can't sell barefaced cabs? <_<

Frank.
[/quote]

I doubt they will ever be in a shop. Bad business sense in a way...BF can charge shop prices but sell directly. If they sold to a store, can you imagine the retail prices?!?!

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Musky Proficient

Musky

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I think part of the problem BF faces with their cabs is the fact that they use 9mm ply - it just looks flimsy, no matter how well it is braced internally. Marshall uses 18mm ply on their 4x12's and still double up the thickness at the front edge of their cabs. It says 'massively tough', even though it's there just for cosmetic purposes and doesn't add to the overall strength of the cab.

As for the finish, it certainly isn't the best looking cab I've seen but a painted finish is pretty much standard on PA cabs and I don't think I've heard too many people complain about the looks. Perhaps it's the actual paint used? Would people prefer a smoother paint or more matt/satin finish?

As far as the tone of the cabs, this is really just a 'people like different sounds' shock horror story. It's as ridiculous to expect that everyone should like what they hear as it is to state that they sound crap. It's all opinion based and there is no right or wrong to the matter.

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Lozz196 Grand Master

Lozz196

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The thing about BF cabs about them looking flimsy etc, I`m yet to read about any that have suffered significant damage. Whilst I agree that looks can be important, surely sound has to be the main factor. I`ve learned to love my Markbass gear but really hated the look when I first saw them years ago, but since hearing many a bassist use them, my ears have convinced my eyes that they were concentrating on the wrong issue.

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gafbass02 Veteran

gafbass02

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Posted (edited)

To be read with a sense of whimsy. Not a rant.

I generally avoid posting in BF threads, for a number of reasons.
It's been getting more and more like the hysterical EBMM or R**K forums on here where this subject is concerned.
My feeling on this fawning is that it's most likely, in most cases, unconsciously perhaps, seated in sycophancy. A subtle hope that Alex will note those who leap to defence in their deferential way, and maybe, just maybe, return the favour in some way. That and/or a sense of satisfaction of a 'fame by association' thing; being able to wax lyrical about how they are on first name terms with the Barefaced guy.
That's one reason, people get weird over it.

Another is that having watched closely from the idea, to the beginnings, to where Alex is today, I've nothing but support for him and what he's done/doing. It's a HUGE hats off from me, wether I like the product or not, and I don't want to damage that.

But this one is the biggie, why I generally avoid BF threads...'cause if you criticise the cabs in anyway, you always get leapt on by one of the fanatical few insisting that its your playing, you must suck, you must have cloth ears, you must be used to crap gear, you don't know how to listen properly, you're playing it wrong, you're listening wrong, you've stacked it wrong, it's the wrong room/amp/bass/technique/settings, you dont know what you're doing!!!
Etc
Etc
Etc

That bugs me.

Prior to buying, and owning, and gigging BF cabs
(in a variety of venues, inside and outside, big and small, loud and quiet, with a range of basses, active and passive, with a range of musical styles. )
I'd owned a full trace stack, AH400 smx, bright box, the works, other stacks including a prototype laney beast, god knows how many heads,Warwick to H||H, peavey, Marshall, promethean, you name it.
And that's just what I've owned, in a working capacity I've played through everything else I hadn't owned. Amped, GK, ashdown. Etc etc etc
I was running a mark bass LM2 into a pair of mark bass 2x10's when I decided to change to BF.

I bought a compact and a midget T and a Genz shuttle 9. To lighten my rig further.

Loved the portability, I could carry a midget to gigs!

Hated the looks, looked poorly made, grills badly cut, badly fitted, with sticky foam tape behind them looking awful. Not at all what I'd expected at the price point.
The parts, fit and finish we're awful. Folks took the mickey!!
I felt no pride in ownership, more a creeping sense I'd wasted my money. I missed my markbass cabs.

Btw I quite liked the litte promethean combo and matching extension cab I had for a while, but it all broke

The handle meant my head wouldn't sit, so I used soft feet. The cabs finish started to react with them!
I tried hard feet, the amp slid about.
Folks still laughed at my home made cabs, and asked why the badges were different ways around. And why I kept sticking my head and hand in the port.
...Because I needed to adjust the tweeter, constantly, because I just could NOT get a good, consistent sound, that sounded like me?!

The midget sounded like an old school, boxy 12" driver in a small box, loud because it had a ton of mid, I tried it on the floor, on a table, in a corner, under the table, etc etc Still sounded like I'd expect a 12" in a small box to sound.

The compact sounded like an old school, Woolley 15" speaker in a small box. Exactly like I'd expect one to. No bite, attack, no tonal 'complexity' or punch to speak of. Just a big, old fashioned woofy, retro bass sound.
Together they sounded, well, like those two things stacked on top of each other. A bit more 'solid' perhaps. But still very 'twelvey'. Not the punch and response I'd grown to love when using tens.

All the things that break the speaker configuration rules. Yes. I Know that you cant say a speaker size sounds like this or that etc, based on graphs and maths, but in use, I can. Maybe some cant, maybe some drivers i cant, but these, im sorry held no surprises in that department.
It's at this point I can hear the frantic typing of outraged fingers, 'You were listening wrong! You are just used to hearing tens, you are used to hearing it wrong! It's the colour, you couldn't play without the colour!! Youre listening with your eyes!!! You suck!!'

Go for it.

I'm a very good player,in this company I don't say that lightly. But I am, and ive been gigging some 22 years ish. From the crappy local to the Hammersmith apollo/SECC/various apollo theaters, huge festivals etc etc I've worked as a sound engineer, as a bass player/musician, in hi-Fi and audio business' my whole life.
I have good ears and know what I'm listening to and for.

But you go ahead and tell me it's my untrained, inexperienced ears.
Ymmv, each to their own etc, you hear/see what you do, i hear/see what I do.
But please dont tell me I'm wrong because I'm not good enough to own them, which has been levelled at me on here before!!

So I lived with em, I got other players to play them, I tried a range of heads and settings through them I contacted Alex, he was VERY helpful, and insightful. He knew his gear, and how they would react to different heads etc. he was always dead right.

Trouble was, I just couldn't get away from the way they looked and sounded. Cheap, home made, impractical design issues, a middy, barky, boxy 12, and a big, flumpy 15.
Id escaped those sounds way back. Even my markbass 15" had sounded fast, full ranged, and just more 'complete' than the compact.

Loved the weight though. But pride in ownership escaped me. My bass playing friends also remained baffled by them. They simply didn't see the appeal... beyond the weight.

Even though I DI often, (not always, not by a long shot) and the cab sound was for me, and the weight was a critical factor. Hugely so. I simply couldn't live with the tone. It took away my enjoyment, and with it my groove, my feel and my concentration, I started to find myself distracted by trying get a decent sound and RESPONSE out of them.
I gave up trying.

So I sold them, and bought Bergantino AE210's.

Dear god!!! Best music money I've ever spent! Nothing I've EVER played through has made such a difference to my sound. I've no intention of moving them on till I can no longer lift them or make someone lift them for me.
When that's the case, I'll go straight back to barefaced and give the new stuff a whirl, I know lots of these issues he's addressed already so hopefully by then Alex will have built them into a British juggernaut of manufacturing and export. Hopefully he'll have forgotten that I criticised his cabs online too.

But for now the bergantinos are beautifully built in every tiny detail. They ooze class, prestige, care and attention. They are easy to get a stunning sound out of with any amp I've tried. I went back to markbass with the head, ditching the Genz for a MoMark.
They are VERY loud, never distressed, always composed, punchy, detailed, with a 3D quality to them. I feel proud to set em up onstage, even though they are pretty innocuous from a distance. Especially after my glowing eight foot trace monster.

But for just effortlessly sounding beautiful, in any venue, big or small, indoors or out, loud or quiet, with any head, or bass, active or passive, or tuned down to C with a huge synth sound.
They just can't be beaten.
And at 40lbs. They ain't too heavy either.

For gigs where I used to use a midget, I now play a GK MB112 ii combo. At low volumes it sounds amazing, very very good, easy to get a fantastic sound from. At volume, it goes middy, and boxy, and starts to sound like a 12 in a small box, just like the midget T did at any volume. Its certainly not left me lacking in comparison to the midget T audible, appreciable volume with tone. IME IMHO ETC)
But. The GK looks like a berg in its fit and finish, and I don't need to carry a head. A good buy I think.
Incidentally, they all have a similar, 'painted' finish.

So there you go.

Flame away if you wish, deride if you wish, but maybe first, if its not what you want to read/think/hear/see. Then. Perhaps, instead of leaping to BF's defence, lance in hand, all wounded purchaser pride and hoping for a discount or free handle, or just a 'handshake' from the man himself, just give a shrug and move on to a more suitable post for you. These are my experiences and opinions, it's past and done, so I can't change them.

So please don't have a pop at me all offended, I probably won't respond anyway. I just wanted to pass on my experiences as an actual owner of three BF cabs.
(Yes, three, I even bought a midget AGAIN!!! Just to check!! Still didn't like it.)

If you enjoy your barefaced cabs, then great. Enjoy them. Not for me, neither is the colour red or sopranos, or FIAT. Y'know.
I'm so impressed with what you've achieved Alex.

These days I think a lot less about my gear. It just does what I want it to do, when I want it to. Maybe It's why I post less, maybe it's the kids. Who knows.

Peace.

Gaf

Edited by gafbass02
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discreet Grand Master

discreet

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Posted

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1381662727' post='2241884']
If you enjoy your barefaced cabs, then great. Enjoy them. Not for me, neither is the colour red or sopranos, or FIAT. Y'know.
I'm so impressed with what you've achieved Alex.
[/quote]

At risk of seeming an arse, I would say that BF cabs do sound quite a lot different from each other. If a Compact and Midget didn't work for you then possibly one of the other models would have. But I totally understand why your experience has put you off. :)

I borrowed a Super Twelve and it was perfect for the rock band I was in at the time. I didn't want to give it back. But as you say, one's mileage may indeed vary. What is yummy for the goat can be crappy for the stoat. I just made that up.

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ShergoldSnickers Community Regular

ShergoldSnickers

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Posted (edited)

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1381662727' post='2241884']
To be read with a sense of whimsy. Not a rant.....

....Peace.

Gaf
[/quote]

It's important that alternative views are posted, as there could be the perception that those who don't get on with BF cabs are somehow 'non-believers' or 'unclean'. I don't think in general that that is the case, but it doesn't do any harm to see a different point of view. You will get fanatics in all sorts of areas of human activity, particularly where a manufacturer is trying to go against the general perceived wisdom. Apple for example. I'm not saying BF are in any way directly comparable to Apple, but BF have certainly got their admirers and detractors.

All we can do is try to be honest and as objective as possible in our assessment. I like the sound a BF S12T gives, it suits what I do, but I'd not take it personally if someone tried it and hated it. Better they try and hate it than not try it and spout off one way or another.

Edited by ShergoldSnickers
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stingrayPete1977 Grand Master

stingrayPete1977

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Posted (edited)

I think what gets peoples goat is the BF fans always sign off with, "blew away my MarkBass" or "Brand X are not comparable" when they clearly are, If you like the tone thats cool and the weight saving is great but why end the response with the non factual bits almost everytime. The other thing regarding the weight is that so many other brands have cabs that weigh a lot less than they used to so a few lbs here and there is less of an issue, a pair of Marbass 1x12 cabs aint exactly heavy compared to my old Peavey TNT combo is it, my GB 2x12 is fairly light and has rattle free handles and heavy duty rubber wheels, it looks expensive and the rat fur is like new 4 years on, I see no issue, plus it "blows away brand X tonally too" :lol:

Edited by stingrayPete1977
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