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Thunderbird

Rage against the machine sound

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Right I have been trying to get the Rage against the machine sound but cant I looked up Timmy C's gear and it says He uses a Marshall Guvnor and an unknown effects pedal anyone know what the pedal is he uses? the closet I have come to getting the sound is a Behringer vintage tube overdrive but I doubt he uses that I have tried a Boss ODB-3 my amps built in distortion and had no joy I am going to borrow my mates guvnor to see how I get on with that what effects do you guys use to get this kind of sound?

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I tend to get a decent enough Tim C sound with Jazz bass, amp with tube grit if possible (or higher gain on the pre), and now B7K but i managed with just the guv'nor (mk1) in the past.

What RATM era you aiming for?

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That "unknown" pedal is an overdrive/distortion he made himself, and he modded the Guvnor to make it a bit more bass friendly.

I get a good basic grit (a la end of Wake Up) with the b3k, LED Rat does the heavier sounds well. A lot of his tone comes from his SVT really though...

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I don't have the link but search on talkbass, there are vast threads devoted to this subject.

But a jazz bass and 2 or 3 SVT's would be a start... ;)

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I get quite a close approximation with a bit of compression going into a guitar Practice amp with the kids scooped to almost nothing and the treble at about 9 o'clock! Don't try this on your mate's boutique valve amp... :D

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[quote name='operative451' timestamp='1378051191' post='2195133']
I get quite a close approximation with a bit of compression going into a guitar Practice amp with the [b]kids scooped to almost nothing[/b] and the treble at about 9 o'clock! Don't try this on your mate's boutique valve amp... :D
[/quote]

therein lies the secret to a good tone.

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[quote name='operative451' timestamp='1378051191' post='2195133']...with the kids scooped to almost nothing...[/quote]

...made famous by The Who (The Kids Are All Right...) and the Floyd (Leave us kids alone...) :happy:

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On their first record Timmy C played a mapleneck Musicman Stingray through an SVT+8x10. I saw them several times live in the early 90s with the same setup on stage. Dunno if or what pedals were in the signalpath, though.

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His old bass tech had a website with the complete history of what gear was used for each album and tours. I'll see if I can find it (if its still online)

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I thought he was using the MM through SWR amps on the first record? He was definitely using the SWR amps live. No evidence to my ears at least of any Ampeg valve type sound.

But anywho: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f36/tim-commerford-265221/

You'll get quite close by using a Jazz bass, fingerstyle on the bridge pickup, a good compressor and a nice low OD pedal. Or instead of the OD pedal, a proper tube amp... or at least a hybrid so you can push the valve to get that breakup sound.

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[quote name='Thunderbird' timestamp='1378061695' post='2195371']
Thanks for the replies guys I think I will try the Guvnor route and see what transpires :)
[/quote]
A better start might be the SansAmp BDDI or Behringer BDI21. They both emulate the SVT (scooped mids and all) and are capable of getting quite hairy. The Behringer in particular is so cheap it's useful to have around just as a handy DI, although obviously the build quality is nowhere near that of the SansAmp. If you decide you need more drive than they can supply any decent low gain pedal should hit the spot. :)

Edited by Musky

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i used to use a similar sound to the evil empire bass tone in an old old old band,

i used my jazz bass (bridge pup solo) into a sansamp RBI (later swapped out for an Ampeg SVT II)

i did have the old guv'nor for a while too but never used it with my ampeg.


but my jazz bass into the ampeg SVT II non pro could sound exactly like the Evil Empire normal tone.

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Yeah Timmy is a combination of pedals he made himself, pickups he's wound himself, combos of clean and dirty amps, custom speakers in his cabs.
He's notoriously shady with what gear he uses, his view is that he's spent a LONG time and a LOT of effort scuplting it, why should people be able to achieve it with one pedal etc.
He also famously includes pedals on his pedal boards that he doesn't use, empty enclosures etc, to throw people off when taking photos of it.

So i'm not saying you can't approximate it, but his sound is his sound, figure out your sound maybe?! :)

Si

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i totally agree with what Si says about finding your own sound, but dissecting other peoples sounds that i liked and finding out how to recreate the elements i liked, really helped me in finding my own sound.

so use it as a basis to find out how to create your own sounds, not like those dudes that just ape someones whole setup.

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[quote name='Ant' timestamp='1378110236' post='2195756']
i used to use a similar sound to the evil empire bass tone in an old old old band,

i used my jazz bass (bridge pup solo) into a sansamp RBI (later swapped out for an Ampeg SVT II)

i did have the old guv'nor for a while too but never used it with my ampeg.


but my jazz bass into the ampeg SVT II non pro could sound exactly like the Evil Empire normal tone.
[/quote]

Yeah I get very close to Evil Empire sounds with my jazz and a parrallel effects chain, with an OD on one side. Battle of LA and Renegades are easy too if I have seprate EQ for each clean and dirty channel and a Wah.

Rage's debut album is easiest to get close too as it's either clean or dirty on a Stingray.

There is a talkbass thread that should cone up in Google searchs. It goes into great deal about everything, although he has customised his amps and pickups etc. But with out being that pedantic you can get close enough.

His live sound after evil empire is really crap though. Not heard a live set where it sounds anything like the recording.

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[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1378111751' post='2195767']
Yeah Timmy is a combination of pedals he made himself, pickups he's wound himself, combos of clean and dirty amps, custom speakers in his cabs.
He's notoriously shady with what gear he uses, his view is that he's spent a LONG time and a LOT of effort scuplting it, why should people be able to achieve it with one pedal etc.
He also famously includes pedals on his pedal boards that he doesn't use, empty enclosures etc, to throw people off when taking photos of it.

So i'm not saying you can't approximate it, but his sound is his sound, figure out your sound maybe?! :)

Si
[/quote] I think you are right I agree why should he give his pedal secrets away I think it is just a bit of trial and error as long as I get close enough that will do me just fine as I am only playing about at home anyway but I will still keep playing these pedals are quite good fun and a bit addictive lol

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[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1378114164' post='2195794']
His live sound after evil empire is really crap though. Not heard a live set where it sounds anything like the recording.
[/quote]

Defo agree with this, saw them at Finsbury Park a couple of years back (where he was using a Lakland JO interestingly...) and his sound was poor! Wooly and absolutely no definition...

Some people have uploaded the solo bass tracks to youtube for a couple of tunes, taken from Guitar Hero I believe...Well worth a listen!

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I like to blend compressed clean with a tube screamer type pedal, jazz bridge pickup, played hard! You just have to boost the high mids loads. I used to use a guitar amp in combination with my bass amp to acheive that.

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Knowing me I'm wrong but I thought I read somewhere that he played a 4 string tuned BEAD? and if he does I would have thought that would have made a bit of difference to the over all sound.

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[quote name='Rumple' timestamp='1378143855' post='2196257']
Knowing me I'm wrong but I thought I read somewhere that he played a 4 string tuned BEAD? and if he does I would have thought that would have made a bit of difference to the over all sound.
[/quote]
That was for the first Audioslave album. He was also using an additional Ashdown Evo head as well for high gain sounds.

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