Posting images of Rickenbacker copies

[skankdelvar]

The marked difference between BC and Mr Hall's operation might be characterised as a certain politeness of tone and an attitude of modesty. While Rickenbacker seem really rather aggressive, it may be noted that the BC 'ownership' entreats us in this thread to avoid attacks of a personal nature upon Mr Hall.

This is a mark of greatness to which Mr Hall and his company might aspire.

Unlike many here, I have never wanted a Rick bass, but I [i]had[/i] been dallying with the idea of a 620, slap some toasters on it at £150 a pop, that sort of thing. No more. So that's a couple of grand he's down, or say £1000 off his UK sales allowing for mark-up. That's what it's cost you, Dickie.

Maybe a piss in a bucket, but it all tots up in the end.

Ban all Ric pix and let the TB-ers and RR-er's goggle if they will.

[BigBassBob]

Anyone want to make a Matsumoku TRC for my 4003?

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='BigBassBob' timestamp='1369255737' post='2087044']
Anyone want to make a Matsumoku TRC for my 4003?
[/quote]

comment of the month for me there

[BigBassBob]

I love my 4003 but I'd like to point out I've changed my signature.

[BigBassBob]

In fact, after toying with the idea I would happily not post pictures of my Ric on this board ever again, even if it's just to prove a point to Mr. Hall. Go for the full ban I say.

[BassTractor]

Full ban indeed.
[b]Never ever[/b] allow bullies to decide the course through threatening, manipulating and other general bullying.
(BTW, it shouldn't matter what occupation the bully has... There's quite some irony to be found when comparing different BC threads, and some people's different attitudes.)

Anyway, I hereby officially pledge my pecuniar contribution to a legal fund - should a fund be started.

best,
bert

Edit: I've written it before, but I do support copyright protection, and would normally not buy a R*r copy.
However, JH needs to learn to attack peers - not everyday Janes and Joes. Buying a R*r now is out of the question.

Edited May 22, 2013 by BassTractor

[wateroftyne]

I'm all for companies protecting their copyright to a reasonable degree, but this whole thing reeks.

JH should be ashamed.

[MiltyG565]

Hope he reads this and sees the damage he has done to his own company.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1369258921' post='2087121']
Hope he reads this and sees the damage he has done to his own company.
[/quote]

Hm. Not so sure about that. He's fully aware, and possibly has a team of people calculating the pros and cons.

b,
b

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1369259385' post='2087128']
Hm. Not so sure about that. He's fully aware, and possibly has a team of people calculating the pros and cons.

b,
b
[/quote]

Sounds like they are circling the plughole at this stage.

[Musky]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1369175924' post='2086036']
I say good for "Mr Rickenbacker" there.

Rickenbacker has developed a unique looking - and visually stunning bass. They don't produce my sound, so I don't buy them generally. However, I think they have every right to stand up against the copiers.

I know it's not the popular view on here - but I say well done to the man.
[/quote]
He's not standing up against copiers - he's standing up against Basschat. He has no legal basis whatsoever to take action against someone selling their private property in the UK. The law here is quite clear that trademarks only apply to those who trade [i]by way of business[/i] - those who manufacture, import or distribute trademarked goods. So what he's doing is threatening BC with legal action for facilitating the sale of copies, doubtless buoyed up by the L'Oriel v. Ebay case (though I suspect hubris may have seen legal threats chucked around anyway). Copiers remain completely untouched by this turn of events.


[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1369142884' post='2085354']
We've had some further correspondence from John Hall, who has confirmed that the copyright has been extended from the previous position of copyrighted Headstock and Logo/TRC, to now include the body - with effect from last September. This correspondence took the same form as last time, with a clear indication of Rickenbacker's willingness to pursue legal action against those they perceive as breaching that position.
[/quote]
What exactly is this new extension of copyright? There doesn't appear to be any new UK trademarks registered by RIC. Has another case within the EU set a legal precedent? I don't suppose he's offered any evidence or documentation to back up this claim? It's just that he does sometimes seem to talk as if the entire world is under the jurisdiction of the US legal system.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1369259702' post='2087138']

What exactly is this new extension of copyright? There doesn't appear to be any new UK trademarks registered by RIC. Has another case within the EU set a legal precedent? I don't suppose he's offered any evidence or documentation to back up this claim? It's just that he does sometimes seem to talk as if the entire world is under the jurisdiction of the US legal system.
[/quote]

if you read the fender bodyshapes case that someone else posted a while back - under the US system he has to be seen to be trying to stop copies within the US to keep up his trademark on the shape as otherwise there would be a good case it could be claimed to be generic and not specific to rickenbacker. So there is a kinda logic.

Under european and british law however he's talking out of his bottom. Personally I think that all this talk about banning all rickenbacker chat on the site is a bit OTT - but if it were added to the swear filter and came out as R******** that would be quite apt, or maybe approach a certain german music store to sponsor a big banner ad. at the top of the site....

[Dread Bass]

I have never fancied a Rick. But then i never fancied a P bass and I've bought one. I think this is crazy so i am not going to mention these basses in any way on this site again. I doubt JH will loose any sleep over that but i feel its the right thing to do.

[Mr. Foxen]

Underground trade is much more fun. Otherwise I'd have no interest in Rick shaped things, since the shape is the shape of fail.

[Musky]

Yep, that's the case in the US but not here. A quick search for 'Rickenbacker' on the IPO site revealed no new trademarks, which means no registered trademark on the body. Which is why I was asking about the documentation - September is quite a specific date, so I wondered what happened then that would make the body now covered by IP law. Not that it isn't necessarily covered, just that RIC would have to go to court to prove it and if that case has already happened he'd be able to point out that precedent.

[Musky]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1369261451' post='2087165']
Underground trade is much more fun. Otherwise I'd have no interest in Rick shaped things, since the shape is the shape of fail.
[/quote]

I like that. Shape of Fail bass for sale - has quite a ring to it.

[Hamster]

The documentation is here - http://basschat.co.uk/topic/173238-notice-for-owners-of-rickenbacker-copies/page__view__findpost__p__1611094

[Mr Bassman]

[color=#000000][font=Noteworthy-Light][size=4]There once was a bass Rickenbacker[/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Noteworthy-Light][size=4]
'twas covered in chrome & some lacquer[/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Noteworthy-Light][size=4]
A guy named J Hall[/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Noteworthy-Light][size=4]
Tried to copy a Wal[/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=Noteworthy-Light][size=4]
Then became a Basschat attacker[/size][/font][/color]

[Musky]

[quote name='Hamster' timestamp='1369262035' post='2087180']
The documentation is here - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/173238-notice-for-owners-of-rickenbacker-copies/page__view__findpost__p__1611094"]http://basschat.co.u...ost__p__1611094[/url]
[/quote]
Cheers Hamster. That didn't show up in a search for 'Rickenbacker'.

Regarding the suggestion that 'Rickenbacker' be added to the swear filter, is it possible to replace it with a different word instead of asterisks? Or a phrase - like 'shape of fail', for instance?

[Stacker]

I'm in two camps over this cessation of the use of the 'R' word. One one hand, I'm all for it but that means the little b'staad has won, to a degree. On the other hand, I don't see why we should stop commenting about Ricks AND the fakers and post as many pix of the latter as we want. Who knows, maybe the discussion will lead to off-site sales.

On the sales side, has anyone had a faker pulled on Gumtree? That site, as far as I am still aware, is owned by evilbay.

[ead]

I've read through this thread and as a former 4003 owner it saddens me that RIC behave this way. i don't really understand what their motives are in all of this. It is interesting to contrast the behaviours of Fender and RIC; both makers of instruments that (let's be charitable here) rely on a tried and trusted formula and yet with diametriacally opposing positions on their perceived IP.

I'm neither a lover or hater of Rics. I saved and saved for ages to be able to buy my dream bass (4003 Jetglo - a real one btw), only to find that it was the most uncomfortable thing to play with a really poor bridge. I sold it after about 12 months and was really saddened that my icon was frankly quite poor imho obviously. Still love the look of them though.

[charic]

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1369291720' post='2087296']
Still love the look of them though.
[/quote]

I wonder if this is why they're protecting the looks so... vehemently. Having tried 5 ricks and only one to me seemed like a good bass (not great but good) are they relying on sales based strongly on appearance rather than functionality?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1369291720' post='2087296']
It is interesting to contrast the behaviours of Fender and RIC; both makers of instruments that (let's be charitable here) rely on a tried and trusted formula and yet with diametriacally opposing positions on their perceived IP.
[/quote]

I'm sure that Fender have exactly the same position as Rickrnbacker regarding their IP. It's just that they left it too long before starting to try and protect it and as a consequence lost the copyright to all their classic designs except for the headstock shape.

I don't begrudge Rickenbacker trying to protect their IP, what I don't like is the way that Mr Hall goes about it, and the fact that they appear to spend most of their energy trying to prevent private sales of copies made in the 70s, which in the general scheme of things are mostly irrelevant, when compared with the problem of Chinese factories and their distributors churning out brand new Rickenbacker-shaped instruments.

If Mr Hall was so keen keen to wipe out the vintage Rickenbacker copy market he should simply buy every one that comes up for sale.

[Billy Apple]

I was going to get a Rickenfaker tattoo this weekend, but now I'm not so sure

[BobVbass]

I think we should go for the poll and let the site decide the approach we want to take (so long as it's not detrimental to BC obviously)

I completely understand RB's IP position if I'd have come up with and idea that loads of people copied then I'd be p*ssed off as well however attacking easy targets like BC and alienating your key market is not the way to go - creating your own cheaper "feeder" series of basses makes far more sense.

I started playing Arias in the early eighties and hated P basses until I was seriously skint and could only afford a £99 Fenix - I've played nothing but P basses since in reality, moving from Fender Jap, Mexico, MIA and finally custom shop; so Fender have done pretty well out of me thanks to a cheap Jap copy - I could have easily been the same story for RB had there been a £99 RB copy available at the time... I'm at the stage now where I can afford any bass I Iike and even thought I always gravitate to P basses I've run through bloody loads of makes and shapes over the years; being Lemmy fan I've always fancied an RB, black one. I won't get one now, I only deal with companies I'm comfortable with.

Anyway, lets have a poll