Stacking 2x10's vertically instead of horizontally?

[molan]

I picked up a really useful little MarkBass 2x10 cab recently to use for rehearsals (it's one of the very few cabs that will actually fit in the tiny boot of my car!).

It measures 22" wide & just 12" high. I've been using it flipped up on its side so it's effectively now 12" wide & 22" tall.

I wondered how it would work if I got a second, stacking, cab and stood them both upright so I'd end up with a vertical 4x10 stack with each 10 on top of each other (hope I'm making some sort of sense here!). The rig would then stand a rather cool 44" high making the top speaker much closer to my poor old ears.

This ought to be really good for on-stage monitoring but is there some sort of big traded off in sound? Maybe I'm losing some acoustic coupling benefits by having a smaller contact patch between the two cabs?

I've seen TC Electronics rigs set up vertically with a 2x12 underneath & the 2x10 on top but don't recall having seen any others - maybe people do this all the time & I simply haven't spotted it though!


[i][b]Edit - using Google search (rather than on-site search) has thrown up two previous threads about this. Sorry folks, must try harder![/b][/i]

Edited May 16, 2012 by molan

[Mr. Foxen]

The tradeoff is that you can hear the sound of your bass and your playing better than if they were at ground level. A lot of people don't like that.

[dannybuoy]

You will lose a little bass response from the higher cab due to loss of floor coupling, but you will gain clarity by having the cab up by your ears and having them in one vertical line prevents some of the phasing issues that you'd have putting them side by side.

Lots of people are stacking a pair of Ampeg SVT210AVs on top of each other these days, and I will probably be joining them when I pick up a second one! Even though it can look a little bit silly if you have a big amp:



You also have to be careful of knocking it over. I have had an over-zealous drummer fall off his stool into me and my amp - luckily it was only the little Promethean that tipped over! Of course if you play in moderately sensible bands with moderately sensible bandmates these sorts of shenanigans should never happen.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1337214157' post='1657359']
You will lose a little bass response from the higher cab due to loss of floor coupling
[/quote]Nothing is lost. The drivers are close enough together so that they mutually couple in the lows, acting as one. Vertical stacking of drivers is how it always should have been done. It wasn't for purely cosmetic reasons.

[bobbytodd]

i stack my focus 2x10 cabs verticaly

[yorick]

I've got a couple of Ashdown 2 x10's stacked vertically in the studio and they sound great. Never noticed a loss of low end either.

[chrismuzz]

I used to use a single 2x10 combo always stacked vertically, was definitely the way of getting the most out of it!

I tried it with two Ashdown 2x10s, but I didnt hae as much low end as with a single 4x10... I think thats more down to the individual cabs than the vertical stacking though!

[Lozz196]

Advantages have to be being able to hear yourself better, due to the height, and a smaller footprint on stage.

Disadvantages - only if you have clumsy bandmates/or fairly raucous gigs.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1337237481' post='1657419']
Disadvantages - only if you have clumsy bandmates/or fairly raucous gigs.
[/quote]

Yep, some vertical 2x10 stacks look a bit unstable... The SVT one above looks like the leaning tower of Pisa! If I was going to go down this route, I'd get two of those huge front ported Markbass cabs

[flyfisher]

I stack my two 210s 'vertically'. Stability is not an issue as the cabs are quite heavy. To be honest, I've not noticed any difference in the sound but I started doing it because it reduces the stage footprint and also puts the amp at a more convenient height.

It's about time I repositioned the badge on the front grille though!

[Ed_S]

Has anybody got any experience of stacking Barefaced Super Twelves? Just wondering if they play nicely given the top handle and rear wheels. And yeah, it'd be overkill, but I can't help wondering what sticking an S12T on top of my current S12 would provide. Aside from the physical effects of fear in my bandmates.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1337240463' post='1657463']
Has anybody got any experience of stacking Barefaced Super Twelves?....
[/quote]

Never tried it, or wanted to, one is more than enough for any situation amazingly enough! Though owning one i know you're fully aware! I can't imagine it being very secure compared to other cabs, as terrifyingly awesome as it would be!

[StraightSix]

[quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1337240463' post='1657463']
Has anybody got any experience of stacking Barefaced Super Twelves? Just wondering if they play nicely given the top handle and rear wheels. And yeah, it'd be overkill, but I can't help wondering what sticking an S12T on top of my current S12 would provide. Aside from the physical effects of fear in my bandmates.
[/quote]

I asked Alex (Barefaced) about this and he said they should be vertically stacked. The only thing to check is whether the feet on the S12T are tall enough to clear the top handle on the lower cab.

Keep in mind that you will need an amp head that can run safely at 2 ohms or a stereo power amp.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1337240463' post='1657463']
Has anybody got any experience of stacking Barefaced Super Twelves? Just wondering if they play nicely given the top handle and rear wheels. And yeah, it'd be overkill, but I can't help wondering what sticking an S12T on top of my current S12 would provide. Aside from the physical effects of fear in my bandmates.
[/quote]

Would be fine providing the amp is able to handle the 2 ohm load. I would also wear ear protection and stand in another room.....

Edited May 18, 2012 by Prime_BASS

[dannybuoy]

I wouldn't just stand in another room, I'd stand outside in case the building collapsed.

[Ed_S]

Heh, yeah, I could see it being a bit of a beast, but given the main drive behind me getting one in the first place was Alex describing it (in context, of course) as "spectacular overkill", I'm not one to shy away from these things!

I don't have anything that goes down to 2 ohms, but I do have a power amp that would sling 500W into each at 4 ohms linked-mono. At present I'm limited to throwing all 1550W bridged into just the one cab...



...but don't worry, there's a micro-thumpinator hidden in the back of the rack - wouldn't want to risk wasting any power!

[chris_b]

I stack my 2 210's horizontally. I have no problem hearing my cabs and at the volume I play at I don't want them any closer to my ears than this.

[JTUK]

I stack my 2x210's horizotally as well..and I have no problem hearing them whatsover on any stage I've run them so far so can understand chris's post completely.

I'd be think there was somethjing wrong with your set-up for this not to be the case.

Bollocking nice rig chris, btw. will have to get over to see you guys sometime.

[Merton]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1337420662' post='1659586']
Bollocking nice rig chris, btw. will have to get over to see you guys sometime.
[/quote]
Best description of a rig ever, and accurate too

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1337220540' post='1657379']
Nothing is lost. The drivers are close enough together so that they mutually couple in the lows, acting as one. Vertical stacking of drivers is how it always should have been done. It wasn't for purely cosmetic reasons.
[/quote]

I still can't see why this is an advantage. Can you explain further?

[warwickhunt]

I even turn my Aggie DB1x12s on their side/edge so that I can get a bit more elevation.

[IMG]http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g119/warwickhunt/SPMasonsJan20119.jpg[/IMG]

Edited May 19, 2012 by warwickhunt

[xgsjx]

I can see 3 advantages.
1- The dispersion across the stage/audience is more even in volume & tone (horizontal drivers have a narrower dispersion).
2- A smaller stage footprint.
3- There are drivers higher up that allow you to hear your playing & your sound better than they would on the floor (though some might see that as a disadvantage ).

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1337430216' post='1659791']
I can see 3 advantages.
1- The dispersion across the stage/audience is more even in volume & tone (horizontal drivers have a narrower dispersion).
2- A smaller stage footprint.
3- There are drivers higher up that allow you to hear your playing & your sound better than they would on the floor (though some might see that as a disadvantage ).
[/quote]

That sums it up!

Personally I prefer a narrower dispersion... It means I can turn up louder without drowning out the rest of the band

[chris_b]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1337430216' post='1659791']
I can see 3 advantages.
1- The dispersion across the stage/audience is more even in volume & tone (horizontal drivers have a narrower dispersion).
2- A smaller stage footprint.
3- There are drivers higher up that allow you to hear your playing & your sound better than they would on the floor (though some might see that as a disadvantage).
[/quote]

1. We keep being told this, in vague and subjective terms, but what are the facts? How much of a real problem is this? I'm not talking about Cinema or PA applications or lab tests but the real world of noisy "rock and roll".

2. The difference between horizontal and vertical is 5" with my cabs. That saves no room at all, especially if you're using a Gramma. Your footprint stays the same.

3. Non issue for me.

[StraightSix]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1337430946' post='1659808']
1. We keep being told this, in vague and subjective terms, but what are the facts? How much of a real problem is this? I'm not talking about Cinema or PA applications or lab tests but the real world of noisy "rock and roll".
[/quote]

More info here:

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/understanding-sound-dispersion.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/understanding-sound-dispersion.htm[/url]