Who is a truly awful bassist?

[daz]

[quote name='ogrimark' post='928311' date='Aug 18 2010, 07:59 AM']I thought they were all poster boy's recruited by McLaren to look the part in the new 'Punk' band....[/quote]

No, Steve Jones, Glen Matlock, and Paul Jones all learned to play quite well. As for being 'recruited by McLaren' to look the part in the new punk band. Steve Jones hassled MacLaren for months to manage & help them. He only said yes to stop Steve stealing stuff from the shop. This was in 1975 before Punk was started. [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pub_rock"]'Pub Rock' [/url][/b]was the big scene from 72 to 76. (Kilburn & the high roads, Dr Feelgood, Ducks deluxe, Roogalator, etc) It was a backlash againt the prog rock 20 minute drum solo, lock yourself in a room for 10 years and learn to play virtuoso before your first gig, school of thought

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='daz' post='928669' date='Aug 18 2010, 02:17 PM']No, Steve Jones, Glen Matlock, and Paul Jones all learned to play quite well. As for being 'recruited by McLaren' to look the part in the new punk band. Steve Jones hassled MacLaren for months to manage & help them. He only said yes to stop Steve stealing stuff from the shop. This was in 1975 before Punk was started. [b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pub_rock"]'Pub Rock' [/url][/b]was the big scene from 72 to 76. (Kilburn & the high roads, Dr Feelgood, Ducks deluxe, Roogalator, etc) It was a backlash againt the prog rock 20 minute drum solo, lock yourself in a room for 10 years and learn to play virtuoso before your first gig, school of thought[/quote]
Yes, Chris Spedding, who produced the first Sex Pistols demo, thought they could play (this is before Sid). He claims his demos were remixed to make it sound as if they couldn't play:

Quote:
Spedding explains,
They are not the same mixes that I did. Dave Goodman, the other producer besides Chris Thomas, went in and re-did them and added a lot of echo to them and added stuff to them. So they'd been marketed as the Spedding tapes, but they are not really my mixes. The mixes I did sound better.
I'm quite proud of the Sex Pistols demos, especially when compared to their other later recordings. On my demos you can hear everything quite clearly - the bass and drums are really audible plus you can actually hear what the rhythm and lead guitars are doing.
Part of why they (McLaren and the Pistols) didn't like my demo was that because I like R&B, I highlighted their rhythm tracks with a big bass drum and bass aound, particularly because Matlock had some intensely played bass runs. They wanted a guitar soup. I think that whenever you've got an interesting rhythm section like that, a band sounds like they can actually play, and since that was the whole point of my demo - to prove they could play - that's what I pushed. When you have a guitar soup, which is what the demo they recorded later sounds like, you have to face the fact that someone's trying to cover up the fact that they can't play. And that's what McLaren wanted people to think that they couldn't play, that was just an idea, a way of making all this anarchy stuff happen. [url="http://www.chrisspedding.com/session/sp/sp.htm"]Source here[/url]
Unquote

[Marvin]

[quote name='Clarky' post='928314' date='Aug 18 2010, 08:05 AM']Seems to me that there's a big confusion in this thread between technical ability and musicality. I would have thought an awful bassist is someone who has no empathy/fit/vibe with the band he/she plays in.

Adam Clayton may be a 16th/root note chugger but what he does fits U2, likewise Level 42 would not be the same without Mark King. Joy Division would have been a much lesser band without Hooky. If someone's playing fits the music, then I fail to see how they can be described as "awful". Thats just snobbery. As it happens, I find a lot of bassists with huge technical ability (eg Hadrien Feraud) unlistenable - doesn't make them awful though, even if thats how the music sounds to me.[/quote]

Quote of the thread for me there Clarky. Cracking mate.

[scalpy]

[quote name='Marvin' post='928846' date='Aug 18 2010, 05:45 PM']Quote of the thread for me there Clarky. Cracking mate.[/quote]

Bang on! In modern popular music so much is about the chemistry of the group involved and how they interact. We all know playing with some musicians feels great and the audience will react accordingly. I remember watching a clip of U2 playing "Where the Streets Have No Name" and the crowd just went absolutely schiz, likewise the clip of Pulp playing Common People at Glastonbury and it's all down to how the bass powers the band. When I'm explaining to pupils the role of a bass player I use "Alright Now" as an example. World class guitar riff mammoth drums in the verses but you have to wait for Mr Fraser in the chorus for it to kick off, even with simple crotchet quaver stuff. I did watch a clip of a BC member playing very technically on youtube and BC members were commenting on the "great" groove but if you looked at the audience they were stood stock still. Good bassist= crowd getting off. Awful bassist= crowd still.

[crag42]

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='927632' date='Aug 17 2010, 03:12 PM']Whoever played bass on Maggie May by Rod Stewart can quite honestly be classed as awful.[/quote]



It was Ronnie Wood.....

Or so he says in his biography

[ElCapitan]

[quote name='Clarky' post='928531' date='Aug 18 2010, 11:09 AM']Can you honestly say that Hadrien Feraud would improve "New Year's Day"?[/quote]


Dunno. I invited him last year but he was a no-show.

[ezbass]

[quote name='Marvin' post='928846' date='Aug 18 2010, 05:45 PM']Quote of the thread for me there Clarky. Cracking mate.[/quote]


+1 The voice of reason and one that explains the purpose of any instrument but particularly ours, To Fit The Song/Band.

On Steve Vai's Sex & Religion album there is a great ad lib by Devin Townsend at the end of a Vai widdlefest "Shut up, we know you can play". It's not about showing off your flash chops (although they can be entertaining) it's about complimenting the song/band, especially on bass. What was it that Jack Bruce said about the purpose of bass "To make everyone else sound better".

[daz]

[quote name='Johnston' post='924001' date='Aug 13 2010, 02:17 PM']Did the OP not say ones that actually appeared on albums .



I have one already prepared [/quote]


I dont understand this. Are you saying Gene Simmons didnt play on any albums ? (not that i have ever heard a Kiss LP)

[Jam]

This thread made for interesting reading, despite being months old!

[cetera]

Gene played on 95% of the 70's KISS studio output and 100% of the live shows. He didn't play bass on his own solo album as he wanted to free that up for other better musicians and concentrate on writing and singing the songs.
Gene played on probably 50% of the 80's KISS studio output and 100% of the live shows.
His reason? He was busy with acting, running a record company, managing artists, other ventures etc and took his eye of the ball. He played on his own songs but often trusted Paul Stanley, Eric Carr or Bruce Kulick to play suitable basslines on songs that they had written. After all they'd often fully demo'd their own songs and the basslines were fine so it mattered not who actually laid them down in the studio...
There are also other occasional cases where visiting session guys were invited to play during the 80's (the studios were 'social scenes' so friends were asked to 'give it a shot' and these ended up on recordings) e.g. Jimmy haslip played on a track on the 'Creatures....' album.

[cetera]

Because he's successful, rich, has a gorgeous partner and clever, level-headed children, does not drink or partake in drugs, works fecking hard and doesn't care what people thinks. He sells himself and is his own biggest supporter. All things to make people jealous and envious...

It's too easy to be a 'hater' these days, after all it demands no rational thought process....

I've met him many times and have seen the 'real Gene'. I respect him for what he's accomplished, thinks he's a dick for some of the stuff he's done but know that the real person beneath the 'persona' is a charismatic, intelligent and caring human being. And that opinion is based on well considered, first hand experience.

Personally, as someone who's played many different styles in different bands, I have found his basslines no less enjoyable or interesting to play than 90% of the other well known or fun basslines that are out there....

All of which is far too clear headed of me. Maybe I should just join the 'herd' and be a hater...

Edited December 23, 2010 by cetera

[Chris2112]

[quote name='ezbass' post='929339' date='Aug 19 2010, 07:09 AM']+1 The voice of reason and one that explains the purpose of any instrument but particularly ours, To Fit The Song/Band.

On Steve Vai's Sex & Religion album there is a great ad lib by Devin Townsend at the end of a Vai widdlefest "Shut up, we know you can play". It's not about showing off your flash chops (although they can be entertaining) it's about complimenting the song/band, especially on bass.[/quote]

It reminds me of that awesome Devin Townsend video where he plays some really complicated lick with some tapping and sweeping or whatever, before turning to the camera and going "woah...lame!". Devin has a great sense of humour as well as his monster chops. He and Vai made an amazing team.

[steverickwood]

[quote name='Moos3h' post='923765' date='Aug 13 2010, 11:57 AM']The original bass player from Oasis![/quote]

Yes - and to think they gave something like a 4 page feature in the uk bass mag at the time...
Nothing to do with boosting sales?

[steverickwood]

[quote name='witterth' post='923799' date='Aug 13 2010, 12:12 PM']This could get interesting this,


Oh go on then, I'll chuck one that'll get hair and teeth flying,

Adam Clayton
(there, I've said it )

ok ok, not totally awful but a bit lucky inne?[/quote]

Its true to an extent but also worth considering that him and the drummer keep the foundation perfectly for U2 - who the face of is really bono and the hedge. Were some great bassist to play for them it'd probably sound 'wrong'. For the record, I don't particuarly care for much of u2's stuff but I think that some 'average' bassists are doing the correct job. Fame isn't based on virtuosity by and large. This could be a can of worms!!

[steverickwood]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='923812' date='Aug 13 2010, 12:18 PM']We've had overrated, but awful is a difficult one. I agree that in the studio it can be fixed or ghosted. But live?

If a band becomes 'well known', the bass player should have done enough gigs to play to a decent standard.

If we're talking 'annoying', that cheese farmer from Blur when he appeared on Jools Holland once, playing a double bass and trying to look cool by smoking a fag.[/quote]

Haha nail on the head! Strangely I saw him judging some talent thing on tv once and he was horrid to some young metal band and said they were not controversial/outrageous enough (or words to that effect) but failed to see the controversial/outrageousness in them when they proceeded to dump a bowl of pasta over his head! Out rolled the diva...

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='Machines' post='925143' date='Aug 14 2010, 06:44 PM']Nicky Wire - The Manic Street Preachers. He is very stiff and his playing very predictable - it may be sufficient for the music but if it were me, i'd want to improve myself.[/quote]


I will humbly disagree with that - Wire strikes me as a very lazy player, and someone who takes pride in his apparent ineptitude, but some of his early playing in The Manics is fantastic - in particular, The Holy Bible, every song pinned together by his striking and angular riffs (and a truly evil tone too).

But yeah, from Everything Must Go onwards, pretty bland.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Cosmo Valdemar

[JTUK]

If Clayton is so bad... not my opinion, though, how come so many bands butcher U2 numbers?

Something simple like 'One' is a great song from the bottom up and that is down to Clayton and Mullins, IMV

[EdwardHimself]

I think that EddieHimself is a pretty terrible bass player. He's also always talking about himself in the 3rd person (much to WPDs annoyance )

[chris_b]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1069514' date='Dec 26 2010, 11:18 AM']....If Clayton is so bad... not my opinion, though, how come so many bands butcher U2 numbers?....[/quote]
+1

You cannot say that Adam Clayton is a bad bass player. He is simple but in U2 that is good.

Listen to some of the root/5 bass players in Nashville. They are fantastic. Adam Clayton is a very good bass player for the band he is in. The same can be said for all the other simple bass players.

Edited December 26, 2010 by chris_b

[Doctor J]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1069514' date='Dec 26 2010, 11:18 AM']If Clayton is so bad... not my opinion, though, how come so many bands butcher U2 numbers?[/quote]

+2

[JTUK]

Listening to 5:15 live version and you have to say ..or I do, that that bass solo is truly truly awful.
What was the guy thinking..?..or taking??

I've heard some shocking stuff from Verdine White as well.
So considering the stature and the way some people really dote on every note from these guys, I'd put these two up

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1067791' date='Dec 23 2010, 02:10 PM']It reminds me of that awesome Devin Townsend video where he plays some really complicated lick with some tapping and sweeping or whatever, before turning to the camera and going "woah...lame!".[/quote]



He gets a bit more extreme than that too...

[Kiwi]

Go to 1:30 for his views on bass guitar and guitarists.

[greyparrot]

[quote name='Doddy' post='928529' date='Aug 18 2010, 11:08 AM']But does a player like Guigsy or Clayton play chugging 8th notes because musically it's the best thing to play,or because they are limited by their abilities and that is all that they can play?
To me there is a big difference.[/quote]


yep i agree. Would be nice to hear another player playing those parts. Just because a bass part is down on record it does not mean thats the b all and end all and thats that. I bet most of us can come up with a better bass line playing it on the fly, but because Clayton recorded it and its down on record some think its the best thing for that band.

[Doctor J]

Better how? Better in the sense that it connects with millions more people than the many millions who connected with the songs in the first place or better in the sense that random bassists will high-five you as you walk down the street?