Pete Academy Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 [quote name='the_skezz' post='928143' date='Aug 17 2010, 10:50 PM']SHE SUCKS AND I HATE HER. [size=1]And that's definately not jealousy coming through [/size][/quote] Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 i cant see what s ground breaking about L42...what has he done that is new? hes been doing the (great) same thing for 30 years... Julian, Lawrence, Randy are session musicians, they can play anything. Why do you think im dissmissing him????I dont think you understand what im saying..Im not saying hes an average player in his own right...but among a world of bassists and i mean hundreds of great bassists, i dont think hes special....like i said UNIQUE, but no better.. IMO for example, Victor Wooten is special because hes breaking new ground, trying different things there are lots of bassists as good as MK, but because they werent in L42 there not heard of.. by the way i have lots of L42 and was listening to them when they first arrived on the scene and do love them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 James Jamerson, lot of old rubbish. Sounds like a muffled sheep trying to escape from a cage made of cotton and twigs they call an ampeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 [quote name='bubinga5' post='928196' date='Aug 17 2010, 11:30 PM']i cant see what s ground breaking about L42...what has he done that is new? hes been doing the (great) same thing for 30 years... Julian, Lawrence, Randy are session musicians, they can play anything. Why do you think im dissmissing him????I dont think you understand what im saying..Im not saying hes an average player in his own right...but among a world of bassists and i mean hundreds of great bassists, i dont think hes special....like i said UNIQUE, but no better.. IMO for example, Victor Wooten is special because hes breaking new ground, trying different things there are lots of bassists as good as MK, but because they werent in L42 there not heard of.. by the way i have lots of L42 and was listening to them when they first arrived on the scene and do love them..[/quote] He inspired a hell of a lot of people to start playing bass, I can guarantee that much, loads more than the likes of RHT, Julian Crampton etc have inspired. And that can never be a bad thing right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 [quote name='risingson' post='928210' date='Aug 17 2010, 11:48 PM']He inspired a hell of a lot of people to start playing bass, I can guarantee that much, loads more than the likes of RHT, Julian Crampton etc have inspired. And that can never be a bad thing right?[/quote]No not at all..but it depends if they all wanted to sound like MK..at at the time that did happen..im old enough to remember...but no its a great thing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 [quote name='bubinga5' post='928213' date='Aug 17 2010, 11:51 PM']No not at all..but it depends if they all wanted to sound like MK..at at the time that did happen..im old enough to remember...but no its a great thing..[/quote] Well I'm younger, and when I started out all I wanted to do was sound like Flea. Now all I want to sound like are people like Pino and Willie Weeks (I can keep dreaming I guess!). It's natural to emulate your heroes, but most musicians do that for a time before discovering other players that perhaps wouldn't otherwise be known to them before they took up the instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 (edited) yeah for sure its natural to emulate your fav bassists...but i think its much more important to do your own thing...ive learnt loads of stuff and ideas from various bassists,songs etc....alot of stuff ive learnt also comes from listening to singers, horn players etc.. i have favorite bass players,but i dont want to sound like anyone but me... Edited August 17, 2010 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 [quote name='bubinga5' post='928231' date='Aug 18 2010, 12:09 AM']yeah for sure its natural to emulate your fav bassists...but i think its much more important to do your own thing...ive learnt loads of stuff and ideas from various bassists,songs etc....alot of stuff ive learnt also comes from listening to singers, horn players etc.. i have favorite bass players,but i dont want to sound like anyone but me...[/quote] I think theres been so much that has already done it would be near impossible to not sound a little bit like someone else. Even if its a musician you've never heard of or listened to they may have got similar ideas or had similar influences to you. So im sure you might say you have an individual sound but someone listening to you might think you sound like someone they know. But if you have managed to get your own sound and musicianship across after 50 years of electric bass, then im sure you can make lots of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 [quote name='bubinga5' post='928231' date='Aug 18 2010, 12:09 AM']yeah for sure its natural to emulate your fav bassists...but i think its much more important to do your own thing...ive learnt loads of stuff and ideas from various bassists,songs etc....alot of stuff ive learnt also comes from listening to singers, horn players etc.. i have favorite bass players,but i dont want to sound like anyone but me...[/quote] But that's what I'm saying, I listened to Flea when I was 12 and wanted a bass guitar. Got the bass guitar, worked hard at trying to sound like Flea. Discovered a lot of other bass players, worked hard at listening to what they sounded like... 9 years down the line I've been fortunate enough to have brought myself up on listening to some great players that have changed the way I think about my instrument. Most people go that way if they have a voracious musical appetite like I have, and if they're stuck trying to sound like Mark King for the rest of their life that's their prerogative if it's going to make them happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogrimark Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='Rayman' post='923783' date='Aug 13 2010, 01:04 PM']Sid was so awful that Steve re-recorded all the crap Sid had put down. Sid was just a poster boy, planted by Malcolm McLaren to make them look the part.[/quote] I thought they were all poster boy's recruited by McLaren to look the part in the new 'Punk' band.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Seems to me that there's a big confusion in this thread between technical ability and musicality. I would have thought an awful bassist is someone who has no empathy/fit/vibe with the band he/she plays in. Adam Clayton may be a 16th/root note chugger but what he does fits U2, likewise Level 42 would not be the same without Mark King. Joy Division would have been a much lesser band without Hooky. If someone's playing fits the music, then I fail to see how they can be described as "awful". Thats just snobbery. As it happens, I find a lot of bassists with huge technical ability (eg Hadrien Feraud) unlistenable - doesn't make them awful though, even if thats how the music sounds to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='928314' date='Aug 18 2010, 08:05 AM']Seems to me that there's a big confusion in this thread between technical ability and musicality. I would have thought an awful bassist is someone who has no empathy/fit/vibe with the band he/she plays in. Adam Clayton may be a 16th/root note chugger but what he does fits U2, likewise Level 42 would not be the same without Mark King. Joy Division would have been a much lesser band without Hooky. If someone's playing fits the music, then I fail to see how they can be described as "awful". Thats just snobbery. As it happens, I find a lot of bassists with huge technical ability (eg Hadrien Feraud) unlistenable - doesn't make them awful though, even if thats how the music sounds to me.[/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrenleepoole Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='928314' date='Aug 18 2010, 08:05 AM']Seems to me that there's a big confusion in this thread between technical ability and musicality. I would have thought an awful bassist is someone who has no empathy/fit/vibe with the band he/she plays in.[/quote] Nail on the head for me there! I think that's what I was trying to say in my earlier posts, but it came out as possibly arrogant or misconstrued! I have little time for technical bassists (who are undoubtedly brilliant in their own regard) but aren't necessarily musical with it. This in turn pushes the argument towards perceptions of taste, and as we all know, everyone differs on this. An interesting thread nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steantval Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='rasher80' post='927575' date='Aug 17 2010, 02:14 PM']Am i the only person who LIKES Peter Hook? [/quote] He did get to shag Mrs Merton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingerz Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='928314' date='Aug 18 2010, 08:05 AM']Seems to me that there's a big confusion in this thread between technical ability and musicality. I would have thought an awful bassist is someone who has no empathy/fit/vibe with the band he/she plays in. Adam Clayton may be a 16th/root note chugger but what he does fits U2, likewise Level 42 would not be the same without Mark King. Joy Division would have been a much lesser band without Hooky. If someone's playing fits the music, then I fail to see how they can be described as "awful". Thats just snobbery. As it happens, I find a lot of bassists with huge technical ability (eg Hadrien Feraud) unlistenable - doesn't make them awful though, even if thats how the music sounds to me.[/quote] Exactly. I think things like this happen because 'empathy/fit/vibe' are not easy elements to measure. It is clear to see why speed/technical ability are often directly linked to prolificness. Think about James Jamerson, Nate Watts, Pino. Amazing players. The technical guys are amazing too, but great musicality involves more than technique. I think that often everyone wants to be influenced by the likes of Jamerson because it's cool to be, but don't really appreciate all the things players like that encompass when they listen to or play music around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='928314' date='Aug 18 2010, 08:05 AM']Seems to me that there's a big confusion in this thread between technical ability and musicality. I would have thought an awful bassist is someone who has no empathy/fit/vibe with the band he/she plays in.[/quote] But does a player like Guigsy or Clayton play chugging 8th notes because musically it's the best thing to play,or because they are limited by their abilities and that is all that they can play? To me there is a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='Doddy' post='928529' date='Aug 18 2010, 12:08 PM']But does a player like Guigsy or Clayton play chugging 8th notes because musically it's the best thing to play,or because they are limited by their abilities and that is all that they can play? To me there is a big difference.[/quote] Even if that is the limit of their abilities, if it fits the song where's the problem? Can you honestly say that Hadrien Feraud would improve "New Year's Day"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='928531' date='Aug 18 2010, 12:09 PM']Even if that is the limit of their abilities, if it fits the song where's the problem? Can you honestly say that Hadrien Feraud would improve "New Year's Day"?[/quote] I'm all for playing what fits the song,but playing essentially the same thing in every song makes me think that it's nothing to do with musicality. If a player like Will Lee or Nathan East was to play a simple root note line you know that it's because it is the best thing to play,whereas with someone like Adam Clayton I get the feeling that that is all he can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='Doddy' post='928539' date='Aug 18 2010, 12:22 PM']I'm all for playing what fits the song,but playing essentially the same thing in every song makes me think that it's nothing to do with musicality. If a player like Will Lee or Nathan East was to play a simple root note line you know that it's because it is the best thing to play,whereas with someone like Adam Clayton I get the feeling that that is all he can do.[/quote] In the nicest possible way, I hope you never come to one of my gigs! My playing is on a similar technical plane as Guiggsy/Clayton etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='Doddy' post='928539' date='Aug 18 2010, 12:22 PM']I'm all for playing what fits the song,but playing essentially the same thing in every song makes me think that it's nothing to do with musicality. If a player like Will Lee or Nathan East was to play a simple root note line you know that it's because it is the best thing to play,whereas with someone like Adam Clayton I get the feeling that that is all he can do.[/quote] I can guarantee that Adam Clayton would be a more than capable bass player. People miss the point when they talk about players being limited by their technical ability, technical ability is completely irrelevant when you are one of the most successful recording and live artists of all time. In the grand scheme of things very few people that enjoy listening to popular music would be phased by a musicians perceived technical inefficiencies on their instrument. Like I've said before there are plenty of bands out there that sound brilliant because they are capable of making brilliant music out of what they've got. Who cares if Keith Moon can't play drums or if Lennon was a bad piano player? They're superb musicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='928314' date='Aug 18 2010, 08:05 AM']Seems to me that there's a big confusion in this thread between technical ability and musicality. I would have thought an awful bassist is someone who has no empathy/fit/vibe with the band he/she plays in. Adam Clayton may be a 16th/root note chugger but what he does fits U2, likewise Level 42 would not be the same without Mark King. Joy Division would have been a much lesser band without Hooky. If someone's playing fits the music, then I fail to see how they can be described as "awful". Thats just snobbery. As it happens, I find a lot of bassists with huge technical ability (eg Hadrien Feraud) unlistenable - doesn't make them awful though, even if thats how the music sounds to me.[/quote] This thread was also going to turn out like this. 12 pages and counting, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHUFC BASS Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='Doddy' post='928539' date='Aug 18 2010, 12:22 PM']I'm all for playing what fits the song,but playing essentially the same thing in every song makes me think that it's nothing to do with musicality. If a player like Will Lee or Nathan East was to play a simple root note line you know that it's because it is the best thing to play,whereas with someone like Adam Clayton I get the feeling that that is all he can do.[/quote] On the other side of the coin, what about Cliff Williams? All he playes with AC/DC are basic solid root 8th notes for more or less every song. I can't think of one song where his bass playing stands out as being anything different. Yet I always hold him up as a shining example of a good solid bass player who contributes to making AC/DC songs great. Some might call him a boring bass player - I think he's a fantastic example to young bass players out there who think they need to jazz things up for the sake of it when the reality there is no need. For me its not about how many notes you can play in a second, how many cover versions you can play at the drop of a hat, or indeed how many different styles of music you can play. Its about playing the right thing at the right time and making it work. Much like a conversation really. If you know that you've got a huge tag-nut sitting in the crack of your arris you wouldn't announce it at a job interview, or if you were being mugged by some low-life for your wallet you wouldn't announce that "...actually I have a maths degree you know". Like everything, its all about timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='risingson' post='928561' date='Aug 18 2010, 12:50 PM']Who cares if Keith Moon can't play drums or if Lennon was a bad piano player? They're superb musicians.[/quote] Absolutely. And it's the superb musicians that rise to the top of the public consciousness and actually make a difference to people's lives, hence The Beatles, Abba, Queen, The Stones etc etc, unlike the technical genius posting YouTube videos from their bedroom. The world needs musicians, not technicians. Emotion not science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='risingson' post='928561' date='Aug 18 2010, 12:50 PM']I can guarantee that Adam Clayton would be a more than capable bass player. People miss the point when they talk about players being limited by their technical ability, technical ability is completely irrelevant when you are one of the most successful recording and live artists of all time. In the grand scheme of things very few people that enjoy listening to popular music would be phased by a musicians perceived technical inefficiencies on their instrument. Like I've said before there are plenty of bands out there that sound brilliant because they are capable of making brilliant music out of what they've got. Who cares if Keith Moon can't play drums or if Lennon was a bad piano player? They're superb musicians.[/quote] I agree with you that the vast majority of people don't care about technique and all that and that there are great bands that are made up of 'not great' instrumentalists. But in this particular case we're talking about the specifics of the bass player and not whether or not the band is any good,otherwise I'd be giving different answers. I'd class Keith Moon as a fantastic showman/entertainer but not as a superb musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 [quote name='risingson' post='928561' date='Aug 18 2010, 12:50 PM']... if Lennon was a bad piano player? ....[/quote] There's an interview with Lennon where he says something like 'I'm not actually a very good guitarist, but I can make it talk'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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