Listening To The Hi-hat

[OldGit]

What do you do if you are in a Who tribute band?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='silddx' post='823888' date='Apr 30 2010, 11:54 AM']3 - Only in tiny venues. Monitoring is the key. I like a full band mix with good vocal volume.[/quote]
I still like to be on the hat-side in big venues.. that's more of an interaction / cue thing than pure feel, though.

[Delberthot]

I don't know about locking in but I once got locked out of the house after a huge bender.


I've been spoiled for the past 15 years playing with a phenomenal drummer. We know exactly what we are going to play even if its the first time we've done something or decide to drop a bit of jazz* into a song. We feed off each other's playing.

I've actually realised that I concentrate more on the high hats and ride cymbal than anything else.



* jazz is our band term for when it all goes horribly wrong and you become possessed with the spirit of Les Dawson

[xilddx]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='823896' date='Apr 30 2010, 12:00 PM']I still like to be on the hat-side in big venues.. that's more of an interaction / cue thing than pure feel, though.[/quote]
I'm always stage left on small crowded stages. Purely so I don't risk mashing up another band member's face with my headstock.

[discreet]

[quote name='Sibob' post='823882' date='Apr 30 2010, 11:46 AM']If you listen to a lot of Nu-Soul, most notably D'angelo's Voodoo album (Questlove & Pino), there's rarely a bass note sitting on a bass drum or snare... and they groove like a no-ones business![/quote]

Locking-in doesn't necessarily mean always hitting a bass note [i]on[/i] a kick drum beat - it's the interplay between the two.

[peted]

When I was learning to play in a band the drummer had a terribly sloppy bass drum so I always listened to the hi-hats for timing and have therefore always done the same since. I think the hi-hats and ride also sit very well in the onstage mix, so everything else can be lost in a muddy sludge and the hi-hats and/or ride are always there to be found.

[Sibob]

[quote name='discreet' post='823916' date='Apr 30 2010, 12:17 PM']Locking-in doesn't necessarily mean always hitting a bass note [i]on[/i] a kick drum beat - it's the interplay between the two.[/quote]

Oh no I completely agree, I suppose the term 'locking in' conjurs up ideas of being constrained, when the interplay is in truth a lot more organic and flexible

Si

[Faithless]

Most of the time, I listen to the whole thing, not to the particular part of the drums.

But, when playing swing, I sometimes pay some more attention to the hat, just to make sure I'm doing right..

[The Funk]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='823757' date='Apr 30 2010, 10:10 AM']Any thoughts on this?[/quote]

Yep, I've always been a firm advocate of focusing on the hi-hat.

[OldGit]

When I play in my normal band I'm usually 4 feet in front of the drum kit so side is kind of irrelevant.
However I always play with the drummer on my left if I can so that I can see my bass neck, the drummer and front person all in one view..

If I was on the other side (where the hi hat is) I'd have to turn like Norm does all the time... Not so good for working the crowd (though Norm does it OK )

[51m0n]

In my head the Kick is the punctuation, the hats are the phrasing, the snare is like a "gross swing regulator".

There I've admitted it, I'm bleedin' bonkers aren't I ....

[TRadford]

As a drummer primarilly, I'd definetly say the hihats drive the groove, unless the drummer is doing some ghost work oin the snare in which case it would be a mix of the two.
I dont think you could get much of a groove to play along with just with a bass and snare, but just a snare and hihats would do.

Also depends on the genre of music. Reggae stuff is very hi hat orientated, whereas Death metal is more bass drum orientated, so for the bass player to lock in would depend on that.

[M-Bass-M]

I have to say that if I think consciously about this, I'd claim that both myself and our drummer have a very good sense of time and so between us we can keep the band together with me not having to worry too much about seeking a cue from the drummer as to what beat to keep.

Of course, I will match my rhythm to that of the drums, but will be guided by what he is doing with the whole kit, and not just the kick or HH. So for example I'll place emphasis on particular notes to coordinate with an open HH / crash, or I'll play fewer notes during a tom fill to reinforce the underlying rhythm.

The other thing I believe is that keeping time shouldn't just be the remit of the drummer, but also of the bassist too. In some songs, when it's time for a flashy drum fill, I'll deliberately play simple notes so as to provide to the band a time anchor - given that the drummer is off doing his thing! If I don't do this, then it's really easy for the whole band to lose time and overall tightness.

[ahpook]

always listen to the high-hat...i'm lost if i have to stand on the 'wrong' side.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='823841' date='Apr 30 2010, 11:04 AM']Time from the kick, feel from the hats?[/quote]

Other way around I find.

The hats keep the tempo, they can add to feel if there's a bit of swing or something, but generally in rock it's just straight 4s. I pick up the groove of the kick drum then play with the snare's rhythm (either with it or against it, but always concious of it) to the tempo of the hats.

Obviously that's in a standard section, if there's a special beat then I'll do what I feel is right.

I've always seen the bass instrument in rock as an extension of the kick drum. In at least 90% of cases, when the kick's playing, (IMO) the bassist should be hitting a note too.

I've been quite lucky though and never played in a band with a bad drummer, so I've never had to worry about the kick and hats being out of time for more than the duration of a jam.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='824042' date='Apr 30 2010, 01:38 PM']I've always seen the bass instrument in rock as an extension of the kick drum. In at least 90% of cases, when the kick's playing, (IMO) the bassist should be hitting a note too.[/quote]

I agree. I appreciate it's different for some other genres, though.

[cameltoe]

Depends on the drummer with me.

In our Folk/rock outfit the drummer is very experienced, doesn't do anything too flashy but keeps it pumping with the bass drum, so I follow that.

The other band I'm in, the drummer is younger and a lot busier, utilising more of the kit to keep the rhythm going, so there I follow the Hi Hat.

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='OldGit' post='823895' date='Apr 30 2010, 11:59 AM']What do you do if you are in a Who tribute band? [/quote]

Oldgit beat me to it, in a way.

Keith Moon used to accent Roger Daltry's singing and his drumming style frequently avoided patterns, so trying to lock into 'this or that bit of the kit' would have been an exercise in futility.

I've avoided locking into parts of the drum kit because quite honestly, I've found many drummer's sense of tempo to be unreliable. In the end, I've been the one that keeps the tempo steady with the bass.

Rather than gain tempo info. from one part of the band, I listen to the whole thing and rely on the most flexible and usable tempo regulator I've ever known, my own sense of time.

T

[Dood]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='823894' date='Apr 30 2010, 11:58 AM']Actually, maybe it's that i'm using, and it's guided by the hats. When i play drums, my right hand is the clock in my head.[/quote]


Thing is, it's a damn problem getting all those voices and the ringing to shutup long enough so I can hear teh damn clock!!!! lol

[JTUK]

You have to keep your ears on the whole band for me..
This is your deal as the bass player.

If everyone played 8's, as per the hi hat, for example, then that could quite easily sound like a dirge very quickly.

I like hi hats to be the funk...but that doesn't mean you have to crowd out that area.
I have no pre-determined part...I'll listen to the way the song starts and then how the drummer comes in and then I'll work out my line.

In dep work, unless the drummer has a chart, then you'll be doing this ALL the time...and you'll need to have it sussed by bar 2

So, for me, as a rule..it is all open.

[JTUK]

as per The Who... all bets are off. Just play what you like..that is all Moon and Entwhistle did, IMV, and I have to say it mostly worked
but I doubt you'd sit down and do that from the off. An example of a happy accident car-crash that panned out ... IMO.

One of the numbers we do which goes down a storm..and which I REALLY REALLY didn't want to do, is 'Fooled again'
I was thinking love the song, will hate to play it...but now, it works...and there ain't anybody following anyone there bar the chords

Edited April 30, 2010 by JTUK

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='824085' date='Apr 30 2010, 02:15 PM']Rather than gain tempo info. from one part of the band, I listen to the whole thing and rely on the most flexible and usable tempo regulator I've ever known, my own sense of time.

T[/quote]
+1

[lowdown]

[quote name='Musicman69' post='823795' date='Apr 30 2010, 10:31 AM']better again, listen to the whole band! [/quote]

Thats my approach, take the whole thing in,
more Musical to my lugs.
And if you are doing a gig with an Ebony board and no staples you can keep you intonation
spot on.


Garry

Edited April 30, 2010 by lowdown

[Pete Academy]

Some interesting replies. In the past I've always just played and not really concentrated on any one thing in particular, but if I stopped to think about it, it was always the kick drum.

I have to agree with the overall statement: listen to everything.

[pete.young]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='823837' date='Apr 30 2010, 11:00 AM']I think I listen to the groove 'as one' - I have to be on the hat side of the kit, though - it drives me nuts if I'm not.[/quote]
+1 - that gets you in that engine room area of snare, bass and hi-hat. And away from most of that really noisy crash/ride tinplate !

Edited May 1, 2010 by pete.young