What has a professional bassist got, that I have not

[bass_dinger]

So, to explain, I don't have much. I can play quarter and eighth notes, and can sometimes syncopate, so long as the pattern is not too complicated.

 

I can improvise a bassline over a chord sequence, in any key.

I can read sight read slow music in simple keys.  I can sight read tab.

I can play simple stuff by ear. 

 

However, 16th note syncopation, Bernard Edwards, slapping, popping, thumping, Joe Dart - it all defeats me.

 

So, what skills does a professional bassist (touring band, session musician, covers band player) have that I can aspire to.

 

I think that I am wondering what the difference is, between a band hobbyist, and a professional musician.

Edited January 3, 2023 by bass_dinger
More words

[T-Bay]

Do you make enough money to live on? Professional, if not, amateur. Some professionals are average players, some amateurs are amazing.

[Steve Browning]

Probably more about their contacts and how easily they get on with other people.

[Lozz196]

From what I’ve seen of professional musicians for one def the ability to get on with people and be easy to work with, the others are hard working and just being fortunate. There are plenty of people out there who are just as good to on with, can play just as good and who have good gear. The trick is finding a whole band made up of such individuals and very importantly having something to offer. 

[paul_5]

Yep. It’s definitely a ‘people’ profession. I’ve worked with some amazing musicians, but some of them only once…

[mep]

It's certainly about who you are. In Guy Pratt's book My Bass And Other Animals he explains about his connections with David Gilmour and Madonna. DG told him good bass players are ten a penny but he wanted someone with wit. When Guy went round to audition he wasn't asked to play bass but try Roger Waters vocals for Run Like Hell. He got the gig. Madonna phoned him up and he had to make her laugh. He can't remember what he said. He got the gig.

As we know Guy is an awesome bassist too.

Edited January 3, 2023 by mep

[TKenrick]

13 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

So, what skills does a professional bassist (touring band, session musician, covers band player) have that I can aspire to.

 

Those three strands of professional bassist all require slightly different skill sets (FWIW most full time musicians that I know have to take lots of different sorts of work to survive).

 

If you want to do theatre work/cruise ship stuff etc then being a decent reader is a must, some sessions require reading but many require fast ears and a broad knowledge of what to play in different styles. TAB does not exist in the professional world.

 

Covers band work is probably the most easy to get into, but you need to memorise a lot of tunes (50-100ish to begin with) and be able to transpose them into different keys at short notice if you want to be able to dep with different bands. Being able to do backing vocals makes you way more employable.

 

In general, professional players across the board tend to have a great sense of rhythm, decent ears, and have learned enough tunes over the years to be able to improvise a suitable bassline when asked to do so. You don't need tons of technical proficiency or slap bass pyrotechnics to get plenty of gigs and as long as your gear works well it doesn't matter how much it costs.

 

It's true that a lot of work comes from your network, but it's not all down to being a people person; knowing the right people gets you the gig, knowing the right stuff means you keep getting called for that gig (and people think of you when they need a bassist for something else...).

 

 

[FDC484950]

The important missing bit is that there are very, very few people making their living from playing bass (or music with instruments for that matter) and it’s only going to decline further. Nowadays I wonder why being “professional” really matters? By all means play as well as you can, but forget about being professional - unless you love being skint, want to teach, or you have some kind of social media presence you can monetize above the ton of dross content that floods most channels, you’re almost certainly better off earning a liveable wage and being an enthusiastic “amateur”.

[BigRedX]

You need to have drive, determination and the ability to put all your waking time into being a musician - whether that is actually playing or doing all the background work and networking that is going to get you noticed by people you hope will give you work. In many ways technical ability (so long as you have attained a certain competent standard) on your chosen instrument is less important than being the sort of person people want to be musically involved with and the ability to say yes to any new opportunity no matter when or where it is (so long as it doesn't conflict with something else you've already said yes to).

[LukeFRC]

5 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

You need to have drive, determination and the ability to put all your waking time into being a musician

this.

Everyone I know in any creative field (including my own) only got anywhere through application and hard work. Sometimes talent and skill is a secondary attribute. 
 

[Buddster]

I can't answer from a professional bass players point of view as I'm not one, but I can give experience as a professional studio sound engineer (in a previous life) who's had the luck to have worked with some of the best musicians (including Rhino and funnily enough Mikey Finn from T Rex!). And they all had one quality in common. Their ability to leave their egos at the studio door. Nobody wants to work with a premadonna. 

 

As it's been mentioned above, the ability and confidence to get on with people is very important because walking into a session full of other musicians /producer /engineer etc is very daunting. 

 

Being a professional is not the same as being professional. Turning up on time, having gear ready to go and sound good, knowing your chops and being able to play in the pocket. Learn a song structure quickly and listen to what the band/producer wants. Reading the dots wasn't always important (unless it was a complete band + orchestra setup) but knowing scales certainly was.

 

The need for a session musician also varied. A sax player for instance would be expected to solo well, a drummer be rock solid, singers to harmonise for backing vocals etc etc. Unfortunately, most bass players were used to turn a synth bass line into one with more feel. Fortunately, I never had to record a bass solo! 

 

Plus luck and conections. 

 

I thought the section in the Marcus Miller interview with Scot Devine (posted on here) where he talks about being a session player was very interesting. 

 

[bass_dinger]

So, before I posted my question, I thought that musicians in bands were technically skillful players.

 

I now see that the musicians in demand are those with the chops - but also with a good attitude. 

 

For myself, even if I can't play so well,  I can learn to have a better attitude, for sure! 

 

 

[Buddster]

35 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

So, before I posted my question, I thought that musicians in bands were technically skillful players.

 

 

 

 

I can assure you that is most definitely not always the case. Many hours of dropins can testify for that! 

Don't get me started on singers!           👉🤐👈

[Russ]

As others have said, it's mostly about two things - having good contacts, and "the hang". 

 

Being able to play is obviously important, as is being easy to work with and being someone who can nail a bass part in as few takes as possible. I'd suggest there's quite a lot of us on here who can do those things and who aren't professionals. But so much of it is who you know, and what you're like to spend time with when you don't have a bass in your hands!

[Owen]

In my experience, the bread and butter session work does NOT want uber chops. They are looking for someone who can sit in and make the whole rhythm section feel good/right/tight. It is like my mate the guitarist who constantly says that strumming acoustic well has been 80% of his session work over the years. The flash stuff is really small. It is the vibe/feel which people want. Any flash stuff will be being recorded by bands full of flash players already.

[mario_buoninfante]

11 hours ago, TKenrick said:

 

Those three strands of professional bassist all require slightly different skill sets (FWIW most full time musicians that I know have to take lots of different sorts of work to survive).

 

If you want to do theatre work/cruise ship stuff etc then being a decent reader is a must, some sessions require reading but many require fast ears and a broad knowledge of what to play in different styles. TAB does not exist in the professional world.

 

Covers band work is probably the most easy to get into, but you need to memorise a lot of tunes (50-100ish to begin with) and be able to transpose them into different keys at short notice if you want to be able to dep with different bands. Being able to do backing vocals makes you way more employable.

 

In general, professional players across the board tend to have a great sense of rhythm, decent ears, and have learned enough tunes over the years to be able to improvise a suitable bassline when asked to do so. You don't need tons of technical proficiency or slap bass pyrotechnics to get plenty of gigs and as long as your gear works well it doesn't matter how much it costs.

 

It's true that a lot of work comes from your network, but it's not all down to being a people person; knowing the right people gets you the gig, knowing the right stuff means you keep getting called for that gig (and people think of you when they need a bassist for something else...).

 

 

 

I'd defo second this.

Being a pro musician is not different from being a pro "anything else".

I think first thing first, one needs to be able to get the job done. Now, what the job is may vary a lot. The examples above give a good idea.

Being a nice person would make things easier, but I think it's a nice to have more than a must have.

Clearly, being an a**hole is not recommended

I mean, do people call plumbers/electricians/lawyers/etc. based on how much of a people person they are?

I think they get called mainly because of their skills.

Now, I know music is not exactly the same as plumbing, but at the same time being a pro also means one gets jobs that feel like plumbing, but hey, work is work.

Edited January 4, 2023 by mario_buoninfante

[Bluewine]

I'm not sure we have a clear definition of Pro or if there is one.

 

Here's a scenario :

 

" We have an 8 week European tour booked. We liked you and we feel you'd be a great match for the tour. It pays $400 00 a week. Can you be ready to join us at the airport next week ? "

 

It's not allot of money but understand allot of bass players don't make allot of $$$ on these tours. 

 

Me, I'm pensioner with nothing holding me down. My answer would be yes. 

 

In this scenario am I a Pro?

 

Blue

[Bluewine]

1 hour ago, Russ said:

As others have said, it's mostly about two things - having good contacts, and "the hang". 

 

Being able to play is obviously important, as is being easy to work with and being someone who can nail a bass part in as few takes as possible. I'd suggest there's quite a lot of us on here who can do those things and who aren't professionals. But so much of it is who you know, and what you're like to spend time with when you don't have a bass in your hands!

 

What do you think about this? And I guess I'm bringing " Pro Opportunities " into the mix.

 

Don't bands that have " Pro Opportunities " have an A List of players to call in most cases ? If you are not on that list your chances wouldn't be very good.

 

Blue

[Bluewine]

11 hours ago, BigRedX said:

You need to have drive, determination and the ability to put all your waking time into being a musician - whether that is actually playing or doing all the background work and networking that is going to get you noticed by people you hope will give you work. In many ways technical ability (so long as you have attained a certain competent standard) on your chosen instrument is less important than being the sort of person people want to be musically involved with and the ability to say yes to any new opportunity no matter when or where it is (so long as it doesn't conflict with something else you've already said yes to).

 

I only know two guys that have made a good living as pro touring performers. Going back to their High School days both were musically light years ahead of everyone else even back then.

 

But here's the thing at a young age both were willing to take huge risks that most wouldn't take.

 

So, I would say Pros are willing to take risks.

 

Blue

[uncle psychosis]

The fundamental skill/attribute required is dedication. 

 

When we were teenagers back in Glasgow, my mate used to spend 2 hours a day on upright, 2 hours a day on electric and an hour a day on piano. And he'd "properly" practice - doing all the tedious things that everyone else hates doing. Subdivision exercise with a metronome, arpeggios, scales, boring exercises. 

 

I, on the other hand, used to spend twenty minutes a day running through a basic warmup, whatever pieces I was working on, and then mucking around a bit. 

 

My approach got me a lot of fun gigs and some great times. 

 

My friend's approach got him a career as a professional bass player out in New York. 

 

I used to know a lot of pro musicians - had a few "ins" with that crowd when I was younger. The one thing they all had in common was an actual dedication to getting better. You can't fake that bit. 

 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

A professional offered someone I know ssome mentoring.  The main message was don't wait to 'hone your skills' or 'write better songs'. Get out there and do what you are good at now.

 

The other advice I'd give from ehat I've seen of pros and ex pros - take it seriously, be lucky but be prepared to make your own luck.  And get on with people.

[Bluewine]

4 hours ago, uncle psychosis said:

The fundamental skill/attribute required is dedication. 

 

When we were teenagers back in Glasgow, my mate used to spend 2 hours a day on upright, 2 hours a day on electric and an hour a day on piano. And he'd "properly" practice - doing all the tedious things that everyone else hates doing. Subdivision exercise with a metronome, arpeggios, scales, boring exercises. 

 

I, on the other hand, used to spend twenty minutes a day running through a basic warmup, whatever pieces I was working on, and then mucking around a bit. 

 

My approach got me a lot of fun gigs and some great times. 

 

My friend's approach got him a career as a professional bass player out in New York. 

 

I used to know a lot of pro musicians - had a few "ins" with that crowd when I was younger. The one thing they all had in common was an actual dedication to getting better. You can't fake that bit. 

 

 

 

Agreed 100%

 

Blue

[BigRedX]

This most important question you need to ask is: "Is there anything you'd rather be doing than playing music?"

 

If there is you probably don't have what it takes.

[LukeFRC]

3 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

This most important question you need to ask is: "Is there anything you'd rather be doing than playing music?"

 

If there is you probably don't have what it takes.

I went to art college, and we were taught "you can pretty much achieve whatever you want. 
Just expect to work your derrière off tp get there, work for a decade on minimum wage second job to make ends meet and never be rich ... but you'll be do it and be happy"

[BigRedX]

11 hours ago, mario_buoninfante said:

I mean, do people call plumbers/electricians/lawyers/etc. based on how much of a people person they are?

I think they get called mainly because of their skills.

 

True, but most of these people rely to a large extent on word of mouth to get more work, and being a nice person does go a long way towards getting those recommendations.