Carol Kaye

[Skinnyman]

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1479648844' post='3178073']
I don't know what all the fuss is about. I thought Tapestry was very good.
[/quote]
PMSL

[skankdelvar]

Just in case anyone missed the supporting references I'm re-posting them below. There will be a short test afterwards.


[quote]
[size=4]Allan Slutsky's View: May 1995

In light of half-a-dozen magazine articles by Carol Kaye in the last few years and the distress they caused the Jamerson family, I find it necessary to state the following information about the ongoing debate. I've remained silent for the last five years but I think it's time to step forward with some hard facts. I hope it helps to clear up the issue.
Allan (Dr. Licks) Slutsky
"Who Played "I Was Made to Love" Her?
The Carol Kaye-James Jamerson Enigma"


He was dead, buried, and forgotten. Even 99% of the bass players in the world had no idea who he was. But in the last seven years, his life and music have been center stage amidst an explosion of newspaper and magazine articles (more than 350 worldwide), a long overdue biography, and an upcoming film documentary. The Fender custom shop has made a signature bass in his name, flatwound strings have begun selling again, and in the last two years, the recording company that had employed him for a decade and a half finally gave him official recognition in the liner notes of 3 recent historical CD box sets.

After three decades of obscurity, musicians and music lovers throughout the world were discovering the holy grail of the bass world-James Jamerson, the tormented genius whose earthquake-heavy bass lines fueled the Motown hit machine through the '60s and early '70s. Even though it was posthumous, he was finally getting his long overdue recognition.

And everyone lived happily ever after, right? Not exactly. As Jamerson rose in prominence, his reputation was given a serious challenge through the media by another icon of the bass, Carol Kaye. Well aware of her claims through the years about her recording sessions with the Supremes, Four Tops, Stevie Wonder, and other stars in Berry Gordy's stable, I contacted her in 1987 when I first began my research for STANDING IN THE SHADOWS OF MOTOWN: The Life and Music of Legendary Bassist James Jamerson. This was done out of the highest regard for Carol's monumental achievements and contributions to the bass, and popular music in general. My intention was to find out first-hand what she had played on so I could avoid stepping on her toes.

I had expected her to name a few significant hits but was floored when she laid claim to "Bernadette", "Reach Out", "Baby Love", "I Was Made to Love Her", "Ain't No Mountain High Enough", "Dancing In the Streets", "Can't Help Myself", and dozens of others Motown classics-in short, the majority of James Jamerson's signature performances.

At that point I decided to rethink the entire project. If I could substantiate Carol's allegations, I would write the book about her instead of Jamerson. I expected my research to turn up pros and cons for each player's position, along with the usual grey areas you can expect when researching multiple claims to the same material. Instead, what I found was overwhelmingly conclusive evidence that James Jamerson played the tunes in question. Here are the facts that my research turned up:

1) The songwriting-production team of Holland-Dozier-Holland attested to the fact that James Jamerson played on almost every one of their productions, and they never allowed others to produce songs that they had written. Brian Holland signed a notarized affidavit categorically stating that "Bernadette", "Reach Out", "Can't Help Myself", "Keep Me Hanging On", "Standing in the Shadows of Love", "Reflections", "Baby Love", "Back In My Arms Again", "Come See About Me", and "Can't Hurry Love", (all tunes claimed by Carol) were in fact, played by James Jamerson. Most damning was his statement that he had never even heard of Carol Kaye.

2) Smokey Robinson who wrote or produced probably 30-40 percent of Motown's biggest hits also denied that she had any major role in the Motown story, and had no part at all on the songs in question.

3) The performance credit that Carol has pursued with the greatest tenacity over the years is the bass part on Stevie Wonder's "I Was Made to Love Her". Hank Cosby who co-wrote, produced it, and who, in his own words, "was there every step of the way from the writing of the song to the day the 45's were shipped", vehemently denied any participation by Carol Kaye on this recording. Cosby added, "Fifty percent of the song was James Jamerson's bass line. No one played like that but Jamerson." Cosby also signed an affidavit similar to Brian Holland's attesting to Jamerson's performance.
*********Point-Counterpoint: Carol's Side of the Story**********


1) The Politics of Race and Gender-Carol contends that Motown was afraid to admit that a white female bassist was the driving force behind some of their biggest hits. They wanted to push a black male agenda.

There are two faults with this argument. First of all, when it came to musicians, Motown had no racial or gender bias. They were all faceless cogs to them. Regardless of whether they were black, white, female, male, or Martian, they weren't going to get any recognition-period! It was a star driven phenomena and the company never gave the slightest thought to publicizing background figures. In addition, the Motown studio band (which was called the Funk Brothers) was not exclusively black. Guitarists Joe Messina and Dennis Coffey, percussionist Jack Brokensha, arranger Dave Van dePitte, and bassist Bob Babbit, who also played quite a few important Motown dates, were all white.

2) Improvised vs. Written Parts - Her claim to "Reach Out" is based upon her contention that "discerning musicians can hear that the parts weren't improvised. It was a written part". James Jamerson regularly improvised and sight read parts of that complexity. Part of his genius was that he could take a written part and make it sound as if it was his. Regardless of this argument, I have a photocopy of the original Union contract from the "Reach Out" session. It's dated July 6, 1966 (the year of the tune's release), it lists James Jamerson as the bassist (for which he received the princely sum of $61.00), and Detroit's Hitsville studio is indicated as the place where it was recorded. Carol herself admits that she never recorded in Detroit.

3) The West Coast Connection-Carol maintains that a great deal of Motown's output was being cut on the West Coast in Los Angeles.

That is true, but don't forget that Motown also had acts like Tony Martin, James Darren, and Soupy Sales signed to their label. There were also various Broadway and Las Vegas style orchestrated albums produced like the the Temptations in a Mellow Mood and The Four Tops on Broadway, not to mention the constant demand for filler material on albums. There was plenty of work to go around and Detroit could not possibly handle all of it. Frank Wilson who produced hits for Motown in both Detroit and Los Angeles supports Carol's claim that she worked numerous sessions for the company. However, he qualifies it by stating, "They used her a lot but not on the hard core R&B stuff. That stuff came out of Detroit. They didn't like her sound for R&B because she played with a pick. It didn't have that fat round sound that Jamerson got with his fingers."

4) "I Was Made to Love Her"-According to Carol, this tune was recorded at Armin Steiner's studio and she recalls "I didn't like the final written riff that I played high up in unison with the horns. You can also hear where I was scuffling a bit with open strings a couple of times".

Now it starts to get complicated. First of all, the detailed studio log that Carol kept does not support her position. The log lists every date she played from 1963-1971. She painstakingly listed artists, studios, record labels, contractors and arrangers on each date. "I Was Made to Love Her" was released in 1967 which means it was cut in '66 or '67. There are no listings for a session at Steiner's or a Stevie Wonder date during that time span.

As far as "scuffling" around, the performance is perfect. Don't trust my ears. Trust the auditory ability of one of the world's most highly regarded bassists-lifelong Jamerson devotee, Anthony Jackson. He couldn't hear what she was talking about either. The "final written riff played in unison with the horns" argument also is problematic. "I Was Made To Love Her" is rhythm section and strings. There are no horns on that record.

5) Ask My Friends-Carol asked me to talk to Gene Page, Jerry Steinholtz, Earl Palmer, and some of the other studio musicians who played the West Coast Motown sessions with her. She felt they would back up her story.

I didn't just call a few of them. I talked to every one she recommended, naming the songs in question and telling them about Carol's claims. Arranger Gene Page immediately burst out laughing and said, "She said that? No way . . . never. That stuff was all Jamerson". Percussionist Steinholtz remembered playing Motown sessions with Carol but that was as much as he could remember. The closest I got to her viewpoint was with veteran R&B session drummer Earl Palmer who bristled at my suggestion that perhaps they played the demo versions of the songs in question. "Hell no!", he countered. "We weren't playing demos. We were playing hits". The only problem was that he also couldn't remember any song titles.

Now we all know that studio musicians live by their reputations, so remembering hits that they played on is of paramount importance. If they had even remembered one title-just one-I would have had something to pursue, but as it stood, they gave me no material at all to back up her story. Back in Detroit, In stark contrast to my California research, the Funk Brothers remembered everything- song titles, intricate details, times, dates, and fellow musicians on the session and it all revolved around James Jamerson.

6) The Great Cover-Up-Carol has accused many of Motown's producers of conducting illegal non-union, under scale sessions, and in efforts to cover their backs, they refuse to admit working with her.

First of all, if the sessions were illegal, why was a union musician like Carol playing them in direct violation of union rules? Secondly, the Motown story is full of lawsuits and union problems but that doesn't exactly strike fear in their hearts. It's just business as usual. James Jamerson certainly played under scale Motown sessions at different times. Why do these same producers admit working with him?

7) Demos That Became Hits-Amidst the thousand of studio dates in Carol's logs, quite a few are marked as demos and many of those were with Motown. According to her, the company misled the musicians because many of these sessions became the actual records.

Carol may have a legitimate grievance in this instance but not in regard to the songs in question. When the recent Platinum CD Box set The Hitsville Singles Collection was produced two years ago, most of the songs in question were pulled from the vaults and re-mastered. Motown's filing system lists whether the songs were recorded in Detroit or Los Angeles (and in a few instances in New York) on each storage box. All the disputed songs were listed as being cut in Detroit.

During the sixties and seventies, Carol Kaye contributed more to popular music than most musicians, including myself, could hope to equal in several lifetimes. By all accounts of people who know her well, she is also a wonderful, warm, loving person. I have no desire in any way to hurt her or ruin her reputation, but as James Jamerson's biographer, I do have a responsibility to him. James died a brokenhearted alcoholic, tortured by the lack of recognition for his his part in the Motown story. It took the world thirty years to find out and appreciate exactly what he did and I intend to further that recognition to the best of my abilities. If that includes defending him in the face of unfounded attacks on his life's work, so be it.

I'm still open to any information which would change the story and support Carol Kaye's version but so far, I've yet to find a single shred of evidence. I'd even go as far as to say that I wouldn't doubt that somewhere out there, there is some evidence that would support her claims on a few disputed songs.

She has my humblest apologies for the few that I may have missed. But when you're talking about "Bernadette", "Reach Out", "Baby Love", "I Was Made to Love Her", "Ain't No Mountain High Enough", "Dancing In the Streets", "Can't Help Myself", Standing In The Shadows of Love", "You Keep Me Hangin' On", and dozens of others . . . Sorry Carol. That magical legacy belongs to someone else.

If you don't like doing Facebook - Some stuff from her timeline.
"STUDIO MUSICIANS of 1950s-60s-70s, all Independently hired, never a "band" like stage-musicians, the Top Professionals with years of experience before ever doing Studio Work, Hollywood:
There were around 350 really great studio musicians who played together, created lines together (especially the rhythm sections), and had the right attitude to constantly work some round-the-clock hours almost every day of the year to help create and perform in the studios. My fellow studio musicians and I had no idea this music would live on so well, but it's awfully nice to be driving in the car and hear.
The coffee and vending machines got a work out too as sometimes we had to eat out of cans (no time to eat), sleep on our 5-minute break on the floor (get 8 hours sleep a night, are you kidding?), run to the next date. People used to ask how you got in the studios, we'd all say: "learn how to grab a parking place, don't be late, and carry a pencil, don't be egotistical, oh and yes, know how to create, read music and play your --- off".
Mostly family-oriented musicians who were respected, in-demand, no-nonsense coffee-driven (yes) and there were some pretty funny moments too, plenty of one-liners at times. These are some of the musicians playing on your favorite past recordings, movies, TV shows:
Drums: Charley Blackwell, Earl Palmer, Sharky Ed Hall, Hal Blaine, Jesse Sailes, John Guerin, Paul Humphrey, Panama Francis, Shelly Manne, Alvin Stoller, Irv Cottler, Jim Keltner, Louis Bellson, Ed Thigpen, Jake Hanna, Ed Shaughnessey, Jeff Porcaro, Nick Ceroli, Harold Jones, Mel Lewis, Larry Bunker, James Gadson, Ed Greene, Ron Tutt, Jack Sperling, Frankie Capp, Jackie Mills, Harvey Mason, Sol Gubin, Cubby O'Brien, Jim Gordon, Dick Shanahan, Frank DeVito.
Percussion: Gene Estes, Gary Coleman, Emil Richards, Julius Wechter, Joe Porcaro, Lou Singer, Jerry Williams, Victor Feldman, Laudir, Milt Holland, Bobbye Hall, Jack Lord, Alan Estes, Kenny Watson, Jack Arnold, Frank Flynn, Tommy Vig, Dale Anderson, Jerry Steinholtz, Larry Bunker, Hal Rees, Jack Costanza, Dick Shanahan, Stan Levey, Laudir.
Guitar: Rene Hall, Howard Roberts, Bud Coleman, Tommy Tedesco, Barney Kessel, Tony Rizzi, Billy Strange, Glen Campbell, Allen Reuss, Bobby Gibbons, Bob Bain, Dennis Budimer, John Gray, Bill Pitman, Al Casey, Al Hendrikson, Irving Ashby, Mundell Lowe, Mike Anthony, Lou Morell, Al Viola, Ray Pohlman, Arthur Wright, Nick Bonney, Toots Thielemans, Don Peake, Charles Wright, James Burton, Dean Parks, Mitch Holder, Mike D'Asey, David Cohen, Jerry Cole, Charley Chiarenza, Neil LeVang, David T. Walker, Larry Carlton, John Collins, Jim Helms, Al Vescovo, Louie Shelton, Ralph Grasso, Don Lawrence.
Keyboards: Don Randi, Leon Russell, Mike Melvoin, Arnold Ross, Larry Knechtal, Ray Johnson, Joe Sample, Clare Fischer, Larry Muhoberac, Pete Jolly, Lincoln Mayorga, Jimmy Jones, Gerald Wiggins, Mike Rubini, Don Abney, Mike Lang, Roger Kellaway, Billy Preston, Artie Butler, Clark Gassman, Russ Freeman, Dave Grusin, Mac Rabbennec, Gene Garf, Al DeLory, Gene Page, JoAnn Grauer, Pearl Kaufman, Paul Beaver (1st sysnthesizer), Jimmy Rowles, Ian Underwood, Ralph Grierson.
Saxes: Plas Johnson, Bill Green, Steve Douglas, Jackie Kelso, Jim Horn, Jay Migliori, Gene Cipriano, Abe Most, Willie Schwartz, Marshall Royal, Bob Hardaway, John Klemmer, Bud Shank, Paul Horn, Tony Ortega, Buddy Collette, Ted Nash, Bob Cooper, Ronnie Lang, John Bambridge, Pete Crisleib, Tom Scott, John Lowe, Julie Jacobs, Babe Rustin, Dick Houlgate, Harry Klee, Bill Holman, Harold Batiste, Chuck Gentry, Justin Gordon, Benny Golson, Bill Hood, Jack Montrose, Ernie Watts, Jack Nimitz, Don Menza, Gary Foster, Rene Bloch, Jack Dumont.
Trumpets: Ollie Mitchell, Tony Terran, John Audino, Pete & Conte Candoli, Blue Mitchell, Jules Chaiken, Bud Brisbois, John Best, Harry "Sweets" Edison, Cat Anderson, Virgil Evans, Bobby Shew, Chuck Findley, Paul Hubonen, Cappy Lewis, Manny Klein, Don Rader, Roy Caton, Buddy Childers, Ray Triscari, Bobby Bryant, Don Ellis, Maurey Harris, Steve Hufstetter, Oscar Brashear, Uan Rasey, Snooky Young, Jay Daversa, Al Aarons, Lee Katzman, Freddy Hill, Bill Peterson, Conrad Gozzo, Al Porcino, Jack Dumont.
Trombones: Lew McCreary, Dick Nash, Milt Bernhart, Dick Noel, Bob Enevoldsen, Harry Betts, Billy Byers, Tommy Shepard, Gail Martin, Lloyd Ulyate, George Roberts, Bob Brookmeyer, George Bohanon, Gil Falco, Bobby Knight, Charlie Loper, Dick Gould, Vern Friely, Kenny Shroyer, Mike Barone, Grover Mitchell, Dick Hyde, Lou Blackburn, JJ Johnson, Dave Wells, Curt Berg, Frank Rossolino, Tommy Pederson, Dick Leith, Chris Riddle, Paul Tanner, Dick McQuary, Ernie Tack.
String Bass: Chuck Hamilton, Joe Comfort, Don Bagley, Adlophus Alsbrook, Al McKibbon, Chuck Berghofer, James Bond, Red Mitchell, Red Calender, Lyle Ritz, Buddy Clark, Cliff Hils, Ray Brown, Joe Mondragon, Ralph Pena, Steve LaFever, Monty Budwig, Irving Edelman, Chuck Domanico, Abe Luboff, Jim Hughart, Morty Corb, Gene Cerico, Bob Stone, Frank De La Rosa, Ray Durand, Bob West, Peter Mercurio, Mike Rubin, Ed Gilbert, Nat Gangursky, Abe Siegel, Sid Weiss, Jerry Scheff, Carson Smith, Rolly Bundock, Don Greif, Ray Neopolitan, Mel Pollan, Bob Berteaux, Max Bennett, Ray Siegel, Milt Kestenbaum, Arni Egilsson, John Kitzmiller.
Elec. Bass: Ray Pohlman (first No. 1 call studio bassist LA 1957-1964+, was musical conductor of "Shindig" TV Show), Arthur Wright, Rene Hall, Bob West, Larry Knechtel, Buddy Clark, Chuck Berghofer, Jim Hughart, Joe Osborn, Max Bennett, Steve LeFever, Jerry Scheff, Lyle Ritz.
Strings: John Vidor, Harry Bluestone, Lenny Malarsky, George Poole, Ed Lustgarten, Virginia Gill, Jimmy Getzoff, Eleanor Slatkin, Fred Katz, Ray Kramer, Tibor Zelig, Erno Neufelder, Fred Seykora, Bobby Bruce, Nate Kaproff, Jerry Reisler, Sid Sharpe, Al Saparoff, Anatol Kaminsky, Ray Kelley, Jerome Kessler, Ann Karam, Arnold Belnick, Marshall Sassoon, Jerry Vinci, Henry Lojewsky, Israel Baker, Bob Sushel, William Kurasch.
Harmonica: Tommy Morgan, Toots Thielemans.
French Horns: Vince De Rosa, Dick Perissi, Bill Hinshaw, David Duke, Willie Ruff, Dwight Carver.
Harpists: Catherine Gotthoffer, Dorothy Remsen, Stella Castellucci, Gayle Levant, Verlye Mills, Joy ______
Accordian: Carl Fortina, Pete Jolly, Frank Marocco, Dominic Frontiere, Jimmy Haskell.
Synthesizer: Paul Beaver.
Sousaphone & Tuba: John Kitzmiller
Studio Singers: Jackie Ward, B.J. (Betty Jane) Baker -singer-contractor, Gracia Nitzche, Bob Alcivar Singers, Billie Barnum, Susie Tallman, Gordon Mitchell, Gene Morford, Ian Smith, Ron Hickland singers, Randy Van Horne Singers (Vangie, B.J., Mary, Hugh, Bob Zwern, Sue, Allen), the Blossoms (Darlene Love, Fanita, Jean King), Johnny Mann Singers, Jack Halloran Singers, Jimmy Joyce Singers, John & Tom Bahler, Al Capps (Eligibles), George Tipton, Ian Freebairn-Smith, Brenda & Pat Holloway, Clydie King, Ray Pohlman, Loren Farber, Thurl Ravenscroft, Tom Bosley, Betty Burke, Barbara Caton, Clark Gassman, Don Robertson, Scott Page, Merrie Clayton, Sally Stevens, Larry Hooper, Peggy Schwartz, Gwen Johnson.
There are more than this list, but this gives you a picture of the musicianship, a real family of talented people, who made 1,000s of recordings of the late 50s, 60s, 70s, etc.
I want to THANK my personal Cartage Company, Modern Van, for the great daily amplifier deliveries to various studios I recorded at each day. They provided me with terrific accurate support. ll I had to do was run in the studio and tune-up - one of my amps was always there, all set up, and turned on, ready to go.
Thanks to: Ed Van Sloten (owner), Ron Trowbridge, Ray Metz, Bill Gibson, Donny Patterson, Pat Anthony Arvonis, Bob Coco, Larry & Ron. FYI, Bill & Donny later started Superior Musical, and another Modern Van part-timer named Ken started S.I.R.!
It was an experience to be recording while 60s assassinations, Viet Nam War, racial strife, and marches were going on in the outside world. Altho' we were sort of "isolated" we were all affected by such dramatic changes in the world, the music reflects that.
We knew the music was being appreciated, and that mattered very much, plus the music helped many a film and TV Show too in those dark cavern-like studios with the big screens with a constant click-track on in your earphones in sync with the film.
Many a chase scene had the excitement of a Quincy Jones score (lots of bass), or a bedroom scene with sentimental trombone solos of a great David Grusin score, soft pop-jazz or exciting music of Michel LeGrand, or the excitement of a car-truck duel ("Dual", Spielberg's 1st film, I was the "truck" sometimes, don't laugh, it paid well).
Who can forget the "Mission Impossible" and MASH music? "Airport", "Sweet Charity" & "Thomas Crown Affair" had their own great scores. And Bill Cosby would join in on tambourine for his TV show music. These are precious memories. The contractors would hired us (at the behest of the conductor, A&R man, arranger, or ?) and sometimes be a little strict (no talking etc.), so we'd get a quick relief at the water fountain on our "five", run for a minute to wake the blood up, call into the phone service which had lines in all the studios to take more record dates etc., it was frantic. Do I miss it? You bet I do, nothing like it, and we all miss each other too, they were the best!
Studios:
Studios at which I've recorded over the years: Radio Recorders, Gold Star, Radio Recorders Annex & 10-H (R. R. 10-H was later known as TTG), United, Western, El Do (El Dorado), Capitol, Harmony House, Nashville-West, Westwood, H-R (Henry Russell), TTG, Audio Arts, Moonglow, Steiners (Formosa St.), Hollywood Sound, Heider's, Conway, World Pacific (later known as Liberty), RCA, International Sound, Neophone, Ted's Studio, Crown Records, CBS, Columbia, Del Fi, Hollywood Central, Sunset Sound, Rendezvous, Ryder Sound, Stereo Masters, Whitney Studios, RPM, Glenn-Glenn, Fox, Universal, MGM, Desilu, Columbia Studios, Paramount, Disney, Warner Bros., CBS Valley, CBS Fairfax, Emperor, American, Ultimate, Louis Jackson's, Bell Sound, McGregor's, Valentine's, LA Sound, Continental Sound, Stereo Fi, Goldwyn, RJ, Original Sound, Amigo, Venture, Record Plant, Hollywood Sound, Independent, Decca, Revolution Records in Toronto Can., Sound Factory, ID Sound, A&M, Sun-West, Studio Center, Dimension, Hollywood Video, Poppi, ABC-Dunhill, MGM-Fairfax, Abbey, Haji Sound, Devonshire, Cherokee, Sound Labs. Also some various studios in Nashville, San Francisco, NYC, Kansas City, Ojai, San Diego, Denver, Golden West, Vox, and Decca.
Engineers:
Some Engineers with whom I've worked:
Thorn Nogar, Lowell Frank, Artie Becker, Stan Ross, Larry Levine, Al Schmitt, Ami Hadani, Henry Lewy, Wally Heider, Pete Abbot, Lee Herschberg, Bones Howe, Leo Kulka, Walter Gest, John Krause, Chuck Britz, David Wickes, Armin Steiner, Dave Hassenger, Eddie Brackett, Dick Bogart, Rudy Hill, Hank Cicalo, Joe Polito, Hugh Davies, Buddy Brundo, Larry Brown, Wally Traugott, Val Garay, Humberto Gatica, Ed Green, Bruce Botnick, Don Blake, Bill Perkins, John Boyd, Lee DeCarlo, Angel Balestier, Bud Morris, Bob Doherty, Don Geis, Michael Braunstein, John Mills, Ian Eales, Joel Fein, Tim Boyle, Mickey Crawford, Jay Lewis, Murray McFadden, Joel Moss, Don Murray, John Neal, Jim Lockert, Joe Sidore, Guy Costa, John Boyd, Andy Richardson, Bowen David, Eirik Wangberg, Hugh Davies, Hildegard Hersch, Bryan Bruderlin, Jimmy Lockert.
Producers:
Some Producers for whom I've worked: Bumps Blackwell, Herb Alpert, David Cavenaugh, Lester Sill, Bob Alcivar, Sonny Burke, David Axelwood, Al Hazan, Bodie Chandler, Cliffie Stone, Joe Hooven, Mike Lloyd, Stu Phillips, Jack Lee, Neely Plumb, Brian Wilson, Phil Spector, Tommy Allsup, Sonny Bono, Ike Turner, Scotty Turnbull (Turner), Lou Gottlieb, Jim Haskell, Al DeLory, Bill Justis, Rex Dennis, Murray Wilson, Randy Woods, Art Boduhn, Larry Gordon, Fred Smith, Lou Adler, Wilder Bros., Kelly Gordon, Rich Delvy, Bob Keene, Randy Woods, Joe Reisman, Milt Rogers, Nino Tempo, Barry Devorzan, Dick Glasser, Marty Cooper, Jerry Riopelle, Nick Venet, Fred Darien, Al Allen, Dick Pierce, Kim Farley, Kim Weston, Don Crawford, Hank Russell, Joe Leahy, Jimmy Bowen, Lou Adler, Rene Hall, Joe Saraceno, Lou Bedell, Lennie Waronker, Joe Green, Barry White, Ron Shanklin, Gary Ziegly, Dick Bock, Randy Newman, Bill Justis, Don Crawford, Maxwell Davis, Jan Berry, Lee Young, Marc Gordon, Hal Davis, Frank Wilson, Randy Sparks, Dick Burns, Green/Stone, Gary Lewis, Lee Hazelwood, Mike Curb, Dennis Lambert, Al Kooper, Dave Pell, Ben Johnston, Snuffy Garrett, Jerry Fuller, Chuck Sagle, Leon Russell, Frank Zappa, Charles Stern, Lou Raymond, Kip Tyler, Russ Titelman, Gary Usher, Geo. Garabedian, Don Crawford, Richard Perry, Morty Stevens, Eddie Beal, Jerry Long.....
Arrangers:
Some Arrangers for whom I've worked: H.B. Barnum, Perry Botkin, George tipton, Jack Nitzschie, Ray Pohlman, Bob Alcivar, Gene Page, Don McGinnis, Pete King, Victor Mizzy, Lyn Murray, Quincy Jones, Billy Strange, Howard Roberts, Johnny Manne, Harold Batiste, Frank DeVol, Henry Mancini, Tom Scott, Lalo Schifrin, David Rose, Ernie Freeman, Art Freeman, Shorty Rogers, Oliver Nelson, Jerry Long, Gil Askey, Allan Copeland, Louie Jordan, Clare Fischer, Nelson Riddle, Michel LeGrand, Michel Columbier, Harry Sukman, Billy Goldenberg, Clark Gassman, Lincoln Mayorga, Don Ralke, Joe Green, Dee Marton, Billy May, Billy Byers, Jack Elliot, Don Ellis, Benny Golson, Sid Feller, Allan Copeland, Oliver Nelson, Tutti Camaratta, Ian Smith, Billy Vaughn, Jeff Barry, Lionel Newman, Alfred Newman, Mort Garson, Don Peake, Ray Conniff, Don Costa, Elmer Bernstein, Percy Faith, Artie Butler, Jack Hayes, John Bahler, Marty Paich, Jeff Alexander, Jack Eskew, Sy Mitchell, Lex Aznevous, Ralph Burns, Bob Prince, Al Sindray, Hugo Montenegro Tony Hatch, Johnny Mandel, Roger Kellaway, Nick DeCaro, Julius Wechter, J. J. Johnson, Jerry Goldsmith, Al Capps, David Gates, Mike Melvoin, Hank Levine, Arthur Wright, Bob Bain, Sid Feller, Rene Block, Benny Carter, Burt Bachrach, John Williams, Dave Grusin, Bob Florence, Fred Karlin, Fred Myrow, Bob Thompson, Monk Higgins, Gene McDaniels, Don Piestrup, Jerry Fielding, David Shire, Les Baxter, Mickey Whelan, David Blumberg, Leonard Rosenman, Harry Geller, dick Orsoff, Syd Ramin, Harley Hutcherson, Dallas Smith, Jack Dougherty, Jewel Grant, Jerry Steiner, Marshall Leib, Nester Leavante, Gene Norman, Geo. De Barrio, Gary Paxton.... Also some vip Music Copyists: Bill Hughes, Vern Yocum. Bob Ross, Roger Farris, Bob Bornstein, Dave Ward, Duayne Tatro, George Romanis, Richard Markowitz, John Eizade, Robert Mersey, Haygood Hardy, etc.
Contractors:
Contractors (who hired studio musicians, usually at the behest of the arrangers/producers) for whom I worked: George Poole, Ben Barrett, Marty Berman, Jack Gruberman, Mike Rubin, Hy Lesnick, Sid Sharpe, Mike Post, Al Lapin, Urban Theilman, Ed Cobb, Jules Chaiken, Bobby Helfer, Viola and Marion Klein, Roxy Roth, Jim Bond, Don Lenier, John Vidor, Nate Caproff, Lennie Malarsky, Bill Miller, Sandy DeCrescent, Lloyd Basham, Mike Rubini, Abe Segal, Kurt Wolf, Sol Gruberman, Charles Price, Herman Berardenelli, Phil Kahgen, Jack Schulman, ___Davidson, Charlie Price, Bernard Berardinelli....
CAROL'S GEAR: Ibanez SRX700 Bass, Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats strings, GK MB150S-iii Amp, Ibanez RG321 with Seymour Duncan Humbucker Jazz Pickup Alnico Pro II, with Thom. George Benson Elec. Jazz Guitar Flat strings etc., TI Benson Flats Strings for Jazz playing.
Bass used in 1960s studio work: Fender Precision w/Fender Flatwound Strings, always with a pick. Fender Concertone 4-10 amp, then in late 60s, Versatone amp. -- on website Biography Page since 1997.
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Studio Musicians, are in the following books:
Books: September In The Rain, a biography on Nelson Riddle, tremendous great Arranger! by the great author Peter J. Levinson.
The Oracles of Del Phi, an auto-biography by Bob Keane (his name was spelled Keene in 1960s), fine prolific producer (Ritchie Valens, did some Motown producing also - Barry White - yes I'm on bass on 1960s Barry White hits and 1950s Ritchie Valens hits on guitar etc., others).
Back-Beat, The Earl Palmer Story, the real #1 Studio Drummer on records (many many hits) since 1947 through 2000's, created many fine drum styles in Hollywood (began recording 1947 in New Orleans) as well as on TV and films (Mission Impossible, Bullitt, In Heat of The Night etc.) .............
And the fine Chuck Granata books on both Brian Wilson, and Frank Sinatra. Chuck, btw, is the producer of the Siriously Sinatra cable music channel show. The new Howard Roberts Tribute Film Documentary is done, with most of our interviews in it....a great film released Jan. 22, 2015! We all loved Howard and this film has our true interviews in it.....it's about professional Studio Musicians as well as Howard's life and career...............
Also, I am preparing my book too, others are also. There's also much film in the can, awaiting to be finished for public consumption of our interviews in the past. My own book will be finished this year, late summer 2016..
We were always only known as Studio Musicians, 100s each year recording records, movie scores (and later TV-film shows) known in Hollywood as "Studio Musicians" since 1920s, totally independent of each other - not ever a "band" at all, nothing to do with the stage world...dedicated Studio Musicians were highly respected and well-paid, it was a good business - 350-400 Studio Musicians were recording day and night in 1960s and early 70s, never known by any other name, all working/recording day and night in the 1960s recording 1,000s of record dates, movie and TV film scores. Carol Kaye www.carolkaye.com see LIBRARY - FAQ pages, also names of most Studio Musicians on my Biography Page since my website went up 1996.
PS. The 50-60 of us 1st Call Studio Musicians (meaning the recording co's called us first, but used whoever they could get usually), were occasionally called the "Clique" the 50-60 of us First-Call popular Studio Musicians - ALL indpendently hired, never someone's "band" ......"

"Parts of 1970 and 1971, from my LOG and Appointment books....notice how I started quitting here - photo is Academy Awards rehearsal at Chandler Pavilion, and aside from a nice chat with Gregory Peck and seeing Harry Belafonte, it was pretty boring, pic is in the Pit with Quincy Jones...."
LOG & Appointment books:
>>>>>>>Feb. 2 Studio Center, Storefront Lawyers, Berardinelli, CBS
Feb. 3 Sound, Bob Thompson, Yada
Feb. 3 Fox, Theil. Room 222, Fox
Feb. 3 United A, Group and 1 Singer, Hal Blaine,
2//4 Sun. Sound, Joe - Tipton, MGM
2//4 Col. Gary Puckett, Helfer, CBS Records
2//5 Univ. TV Film, Helfer, Univ.
2/6 TTG, Stern Agy., Botkin-Stern
2/6 Harmony Hse. Girl Singer, Roxy Roth, Bob Florence, 4-Star
2/9 Para. TV Pilot, Murderous Davidson, Lyn Murray, Paramount
2/9 Sound, Group Bob thompson, Corduroy
2/10 Univ. “Dial Hot”, Kellaway, Helfer, Univ.
2/11 Univ. “Dial Hot”, Kellaway, Helfer, Univ
2/12 RCA B, Group, John Flores, Botkin, RCA
2/12 Gold Star, Elliot Fisher, Hi Lesnick Viking
2/16 Liberty, Artie Butler, - Dallas, Renaissance
2/18 Univ. Helfer, Univ.
2/18 TTG, Frankie Laine, Lanier, Bowen, Entertain Ind.
2/19 TTG, Frankie Laine, Lanier, Bowen, Entertain Ind.
2/20 TTG, Frankie Laine, Lanier, Bowen, Entertain Ind.
2/24 TTG, Jimmie Rodgers,Lanier, Bowen, A&M
2/24 Indep. Jingle, Allyn Ferguson, Berman, tal. Fiscal
2/25 Record Plant, Hedge & Donna, Jim Bond, Cap.
2/26 Record Plant, Hedge & Donna, Jim Bond, Cap.
2/27 Record Plant, Hedge & Donna, Jim Bond, Cap.
Mar 2 Record Plant, Hedge & Donna, Jim Bond, Cap.
3/3 Record Plant, Hedge & Donna, Jim Bond, Cap.
3/9 Unit. A, Mae West, Theil. CBS
3/10 Studio Center, TV film, David Shire, Berardinelli
3/11 Studio Center, TV film, David Shire, Berardinelli
3/16 Sun. Sound, Styner, Dirty Movie,
3/18 Record Plant, Dory Previn, Bond, Ent. Ind.
3/19 Record Plant, Dory Previn, Bond, Ent Ind.
3/20 Record Plant, Dory Previn, Bond, Ent. Ind.
3/19 RCA, Al DeLory, Bob Felts, Cap.
3/20 Dimension, Nancy Sinatra, Strange, Caton, W.B.
3/23 RPM, Ray Charles, Tangerine
3/23 W. B. Film, Kurt Wolfe, W.B.
3/24 W.B. Film, Kurt Wolfe, W.B.
3/25 W.B. Film, Kurt Wolfe, W.B.
3/26 RPM, Jimmie Lewis, Ray Charles, Tangerine
3/30 MGM, David Racine, Helfer, Magellan
Apr. 2 Disney, Bikini-Boats, Bob Bruno, Disney
4//6 Studio Center, Film, Grusin-Bernardinelli
4/9 Studio Center, Film, Grusin-Bernardinelli
4/7 Music Center, Academy Awards, Helfer, Helfer
4/9 Col. A, Union Gap,. Gary Puckett, Kellaway, CBS
4/10 Col. B, O.C. Smith, Art Butler, CBS
4/10 Sun W, Styner, Dave ? ,Hendon
4/14 Studio Center, Berardinelli, CBS
4/14 Record Plant, Bob Lind, Jim Bond, Doug Weston
4/16 Record Plant, Bob Lind, Jim Bond, Doug Weston
4/17 Record Plant, Bob Lind, Jim Bond, Doug Weston
4/16 Haselov’s, spots, Artie Butler, Stern Agency, Tal. Payments
4/17 United, Hal Blaine, Wes Farrell Cap.
4/30 Record Plant, Bond, Doug Weston, Not Rep.
QUIT RECORDING. Only did Publishing Co. but began to teach, and then play seminars with Joe Pass.
8/4 Talent Payments, Mattel, 7250 Beverly Blvd, LA 90036.
9/5 Rec’d Phonograph Mfg. Royalties.
9/31 2 jingles, Talent Payments
11/13 Univ. Universal
11/16 Univ. Universal
11/20 Sound Factory, Jim Helms
11/23 Col. Gary Puckett, Chaiken, Columbia
11/23 Cap. !, Cap.
End of 1970 dates.
CHAPTER 22. 1971.
Jan. 4 RPM Ray Charles, Sharp, RPM
Jan. 5 Univ. Sendry, Univ.
1/7 West. 1, jingle, Thompson, Yada
1/7 Holly Video, Stern, This is Your Life
1//8 TTG, West. A, Stern, Tal. Pay
1/11 Univ. Sandy, Univ.
1/12 Para - M, Mod Squad
1/14 Para F, Brady Bunch, Frank Devol, Para.
1/15 Univ. Sandy, Univ.
1/18 ID Sound, Art Freeman, Janus
1/21 MGM - Fairfax, Us, Stern, MGM
1/22 Holly. Sound, Jingle, Chaiken, Chaiken
1/25 Palace, Pilot, Klein-Mancini, ABC
1/25 Bell Sound, Air West, Stern
1/26 A&M, Bobby Sherman,Len. Metromedia
1/26 H. Video, This Is Your Life, Stern
1/28 A&M, Herb Alpert, A&M
1/29 A&M, Herb Alpert, A&M
1/29 Para-M, unreadable, “Scared Stiff”?, Davidson
Feb.4 West. 1, Barnaby Jones, Artie Butler,
2/8 Mat?? Heart Ass. Klein, DAK
2/9 Holly Sound, Guerin, B/B
2/15 RCA A. This Is Your Life, Nelson Riddle, Tal. Pay.
2/16 Goldwyn, ABC Film, Nate, ABC
2/18 Larabie, Joyce
Mar. 2 Independent, jingle, Haskell
3/11 Holly Sound, Jerry Fuller, Fullness Mg.
3/12 Sound Factory, D’Andrea, Cap.
3/15 RPM, Ray Charles, Sharpe, jingle, Tal. Center Pay
3/17 Col. C, Al Kooper,
3/18 Col. C, Al Kooper,
3/20 Col. A, Johnny Mathis
3/23 Sound Factory, D’Andrea, Buddah
3/24 West. 3, Dennis Lambert, ABC
3/25 West. 3, Dennis Lambert, ABC
3/26 Alex. Haselov - Stern
3/30 Alex. Haselov - Stern
Apr. 2 Poppi, Fuller - D’Andrea Entertainment Ind.
4/5 Talent Pay.
4/7 United, Man & Boy fim, Berman, Martina
4/8 and 4/9 Fox, Fox
4/8 RCA, Stern, Tal. Pay
April Academy Awards, 8 days, Berman,
4/16 MGM, Man & Boy film, J.J. Johnson, Martina
4/19 MGM, Man & Boy film and Shaft, J.J. Johnson, Martina
4/20 Univ. Sandy, Uni
4/20 Whitney, Clark Gassman, Whitney
4/20 TTG-2 Glen Campbell, Capitol
4/21 Univ. Billy Goldenberg, Sandy
4/21 Western, Butler,
4/22 Col. A, Glasser, CBS
4/23 Poppi, Claudine, Glasser, Barnaby
4/29 Record Plant, Haskell, MCA [/size]


[/quote]

Edited November 20, 2016 by skankdelvar

[stingrayPete1977]

[stingrayPete1977]

"Rumour parrot" lol.

[lowdown]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1479662320' post='3178242']
Just in case anyone missed the supporting references I'm re-posting them below. There will be a short test afterwards.
[/quote]

The problem is...I have just discovered (another) one of her claims...is in fact not her.***
So feel free mods to delete my supporting post. Their might be a few more in there.......

Edited November 20, 2016 by lowdown

[Paul S]

I always liked Bing, myself. That laid back, cheek puffing style of his was a winner.

[ivansc]

Just to clarify that last one for CJL: Dr. Licks said HAL not BILL.

P.S. Started gigging for pay in 1954/5 and I was a working bass player with a 1962 three color sunburst, rosewood board P bass the same as Jamersons in 1962.
So I am at least a contemporary of theirs.
Someone in "the trade" sent me one of the early copies of Dr Licks's book with those skinny el cheapo plastic promotional records in it & then I later got sent the version with a pair of cassettes in it.
The first I ever heard of Carole Kaye was via Fred Vail of Treasure Isle recorders in Nashville when I lived and worked there - we had been talking about his involvement with the Beach Boys, for whom she definitely DID play.
I never got the chance to talk to Bob Babbit when he moved to Nashville as I had "moved on" myself by then, so again no thoughts one way or the other.
FWIW I suspect that what Carole did mostly was other versions of the hits she claims to have played on, making her claims entirely legitimate, if misleading in many cases.

And I do agree with the sentiments expressed by most of us in this thread, both Carole and James were great players, why bother arguing about stuff that is so obviously beyond any realistic measurement of proof?

Edited November 20, 2016 by ivansc

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='howdenspur' timestamp='1479663933' post='3178262']
Perhaps a confusion of Cosbys going on here too
[/quote]

Yes, I was wondering about that. I can see that Henry "Hank" Cosby is quoted, but I'm not sure where Bill Cosby comes into it. Are they related?

[BassTractor]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1479662320' post='3178242']
Just in case anyone missed the supporting references I'm re-posting them below. There will be a short test afterwards.
[/quote]

Bah! Yet another set of misleading claims. She totally omits mentioning her having worked with me!
I am sooo sick and tired of people virtually or implicitly claiming not to have worked with very famous people!

Edited November 20, 2016 by BassTractor

[stingrayPete1977]

This is the guy from 'Allo Allo!' we are talking about right?

[howdenspur]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1479665268' post='3178277']
Yes, I was wondering about that. I can see that Henry "Hank" Cosby is quoted, but I'm not sure where Bill Cosby comes into it. Are they related?
[/quote]

Quoted from Carole's timeline: "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] And Bill Cosby would join in on tambourine for his TV show music."[/font][/color]

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='howdenspur' timestamp='1479665987' post='3178285']


Quoted from Carole's timeline: "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] And Bill Cosby would join in on tambourine for his TV show music."[/font][/color]
[/quote]

But Slutsky doesn't seem to quote Bill, as was implied.

[louisthebass]

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1479665123' post='3178274']
And I do agree with the sentiments expressed by most of us in this thread, both Carole and James were great players, why bother arguing about stuff that is so obviously beyond any realistic measurement of proof?
[/quote]

What he said - with all due respect to all parties, hasn't this one been done to death over the years?

[ivansc]

Someone just posted a B&W film from the 60's of the Temptations doing My Girl in the Hitsville studios on my FB timeline

Obviously not the original session, but some great shots of the funk brothers including James.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1479666629' post='3178291']
Someone just posted a B&W film from the 60's of the Temptations doing My Girl in the Hitsville studios on my FB timeline

Obviously not the original session, but some great shots of the funk brothers including James.
[/quote]

A bass player recently posted a Reverb video article on Carole Kaye on the Shadows website - I watched it and a previous one on Jamerson. They're both fascinating films.

I'm a fan of these old pop and R and B bass lines and have listened to all of the Standing in the Shadows of Motown CDs and learned many of the songs so have a good feel how Jamerson played - and subtly different from Bob Babbitt on Signed Sealed Delivered.

I was astonished to see I Was Made to Love Her on the Carole Kaye item. I think the only thing that is anything like Carole Kaye on the track is the high unison riff which is not unlike the rather clever bass part she played at the start of Good Vibrations by the Beach Boys. However the rest really is pure Jamerson and especially the breakdown section. It contains a lot of his signature note choices and tricks like dropping to open strings (a trait of double bass players).

Perhaps Stevie Wonder was influenced by the Beach Boys? Who knows but it certainly doesn't sound like a pick played track and good as Carole Kaye is, most of it sounds like Jamerson to me.

Edited November 20, 2016 by drTStingray

[skankdelvar]

[center][size=2][color=#0000ff][u][b]SPONSORED COMPETITION[/b][/u][/color][/size][/center]


[size=5][b]BassChat presents The Karol Kaye Kontroversy Kwiz in association with [color=#ff0000]Tourism Canada[/color][/b][/size]

[size=5][b][/b][/size]


Wowsa! Fancy an all-expenses paid holiday in Canada, officially the Most Relaxed Country in the world? Just pick up your pen and take part in our exciting travel competition! And entry is completely free!

Explore exciting Toronto! Meet the traditional biker gangs of Montreal! Hear the word 'Eh' in its natural environment! Just answer the three simple questions below and you could win a fantastic vacation of a life-time in the lovely land of The Maple Leaf. All the answers are contained in the thread. Have fun!


[size=3][b]1. What's the name of the expert who first debunked Carol Kaye's 'bogus' claims?[/b][/size]

[size=3]i) Allan Slutsky ii) Alan Slagsky iii) Allen Tartsky[/size]

[size=3][b]2. Who allegedly wrote 30% - 40% of Motown's Hits?[/b][/size]

[size=3]i) Smoky Bacon ii) Smirky Bobbinson iii) Smokey Robinson[/size]

[b][size=3]3. Carol Kaye did [u]not [/u]record with:[/size][/b]

[size=3]i) The Beach Boys ii) Glen Campbell iii) Napalm Death[/size]

[size=3][b]4. Tie-Breaker[/b]: Complete the following sentence 'I think Canadians are all calm and laid-back because[i]...[/i]'[/size]


Now cross your fingers, put your entry in an envelope and send it to: BassChat Canuck Freebie, PO Box 153, York, Yorkshire enclosing the previously unmentioned £10 administration fee.

And - [i]Bonne Chance![/i] - as they say in the parts of Canada that would prefer not to be in Canada.
[color=#ffffe0].[/color]

Edited November 20, 2016 by skankdelvar

[mikel]

I bet neither of them can remember exactly the songs they did play on.

[CrackerJackLee]

Here you go, lads...
Next time you play with your instrument, don't get caught mindlessly flailing your digits about...
It may behoove you to realize where the line originally came from, or at the least,
whose great playing it was derived from... Dream on, mateys...

Don't get excited! Be Calm and Carry On Her Tradition
Even that pleasant, middle aged woman pushing a grocery cart
or whipping a broom about the stoop
has the potential to cart away or sweep away your self-perceived mastery
into the dust bins of history.
And all the Slutskyite regurgitations of hearsay lists, historical re-creationisms and
delusional lunicide from the shires will never destroy our musical inheritance from this great woman, Carol Kaye.




And if you think that she is an exception to the rule,
be very, very afraid...
Because, just when you based your Empirical Manhood Phallacy
on the size of your 4, 5 or 6 banger...
There are more on their way to teach you how it's done.


Go, Baby, Go..!





Oh, Yeah...!




Yess... he's learnin' from the best...





Half the size...Twice the talent...




Don't get mad, chavies...

Edited November 20, 2016 by CrackerJackLee

[stingrayPete1977]

You forgot that nice Japanese 'lady' that likes to slap?

[KingBollock]

What? No Jo Bench? Obviously not a true fan of women bassists! And I'm sure you must have missed at least one other...

[CrackerJackLee]

And another wee collage from the Cracker...

Edited November 20, 2016 by CrackerJackLee

[ezbass]

And Rhonda, Tal, Kim, Tina, the list goes on. I think you're unlikely to find a less chauvinistic bunch than here on BC. The issue isn't one of gender, it's one of performance provenance. Kaye, Babbitt and Jamerson played on loads of tracks, but only Kaye is alive to talk about them.

[stingrayPete1977]

http://youtu.be/eEbkQtqdy1I

[paul_5]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1479676886' post='3178412']
[media]http://youtu.be/eEbkQtqdy1I[/media]
[/quote]

Ah, there it is; the BC equivalent of 'Mornington Crescent'.

Edited November 20, 2016 by paul_5

[timmo]

I would imagine most basschatters could play most Carole Kaye bass lines if they wished, but very few of us could create a bassline for a hit record. That is what separates us from Kaye, Jamerson etc. I have no clue what hits she played on, so she could claim virtually anything and I would be none the wiser.