colgraff Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Because the question of social class has been raised in other threads recently I have been pondering the media's persistent belief that working class bands have more legitimacy than those of other classes, I started off working class (my father worked in a junior position in the Met Office and my mother was a char) but when my father was offered an overseas posting, my brother and I were sent to boarding school and from there we went to university and, to my mind, became middle-class. So personally, I am not convinced that my musical efforts would have been more authentic if we had stayed in the UK and I had continued to be state educated. I'm also not convinced that the Beatles would have been as creative had they not been mostly middle class and 100% grammar school educated. Queen would, to my ears, have been immeasurably weakened without Freddie Mercury's elitist upbringing. And finally, I rather think that Oasis might have been more than they were with a little less legitimacy! What do other basschatters think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayDownThaFunk Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Joe Strummer went to boarding school... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Sid Vicious didn't. Oh, wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 You are born into a class it only ever changes in the mind of the individual. It is the aspiration of the Working Classes to be educated to the highest possible level attainable. Anyway i'm a Marxist so i'll opt out at this point rather that get into debate. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I recall the 'birth' of Punk, and some band (I forget who) was presented on tv as a bunch of kids who had just got together..... ....complete with a full/new Marshall backline? Someone was trying it on.... The working class thing is largely a myth to hype the band to the 'majority' - It never did TwoTone bands any harm........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 [quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1450813212' post='2936151'] I have been pondering the media's persistent belief that working class bands have more legitimacy than those of other classes, [/quote] One of many conceits that exist around popular music. Another is the idea that rock is more 'authentic' than pop; or that only artists writing their own material have anything worthwhile to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) What has going to grammar school got to do with being working class or otherwise ? I wouldn't personally describe McCartney as having had a middle class upbringing. Edited December 22, 2015 by ambient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Someone who classes themselves as being born middle class would not recognise you as middle class because you went to uni, someone who sees themselves as being born upper class wouldn't accept a middle class person as upper class if they bought a country pile, working class folk won't accept newly broke folk as working class just because they are now on the shop floor either, if you feel middle class that's fine but what does it change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Giant red herring only of interest to the critics and talkers. Bonham and Plant - working class. Page and Jones - middle class. Who cares? What is "legitimate" anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 What is this 'class' of which you speak, innit..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I seem to remember reading somewhere that the guys in Genesis and Pink Floyd started their working lives down the pit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Without wishing to diss anyone, but Phil Collins was born in Hounslow, an area not renowned for 'pit' activity............. Also did drama school ....ditto........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 Someone once said that working class people enjoy mucking about under the bonnet of cars. Middle class people ring the AA once they stop crying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 [quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1450818809' post='2936225'] Without wishing to diss anyone, but Phil Collins was born in Hounslow, an area not renowned for 'pit' activity............. Also did drama school ....ditto........ [/quote] I spent most of my youth around the Hounslow (pronounced 'Arnsler', innit..?) area, and there were few folks strolling around in straw boaters, as I recall. No, no 'pits', but a bit 'pits' just the same. Just sayin'... (That said, I [i]did [/i]get to go to Hampton Grammar school, by a fluke in the education system...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 [quote name='ambient' timestamp='1450816353' post='2936193'] What has going to grammar school got to do with being working class or otherwise ? I wouldn't personally describe McCartney as having had a middle class upbringing. [/quote] In the 1940s (and beyond) getting into grammar school was the route to university and middle class professions. Only 1-2% of working class children passed the 11 plus at the time. Those that did almost invariably came from hugely aspirational households and part of that aspiration was aspiring to middle class respectability. Grammar schools almost always had interviews as well as the 11-plus and being clean, smartly dressed and well-spoken were usually essential requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I was brought up in the 70's to an alcoholic father and a mentally unstable mother. Eventually my Grandparents legally adopted us kids. I left school at 15 with no qualifications and no trade, drifting from unskilled job to unskilled job, getting my girlfriend pregnant and ending up in a B&B waiting for a council flat. I applied for a job with the then, London Transport as a Guard on the tube trains in late 1988, and am now one of Londons most hated. [url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11729222/I-pointed-out-how-much-tube-drivers-earn.-Some-people-werent-happy.html"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11729222/I-pointed-out-how-much-tube-drivers-earn.-Some-people-werent-happy.html[/url] Even this year, i was thinking about getting a new USA Fender Precision, but still felt a pang of guilt even though I could now afford it. And a nice house and car. I suppose you never really lose your roots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rOB Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 [quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1450813212' post='2936151'] my mother was a char [/quote] Pardon my ignorance but what is a char? I wonder if this question gives away my class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 [quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1450819386' post='2936237'] I was brought up in the 70's to an alcoholic father and a mentally unstable mother. Eventually my Grandparents legally adopted us kids. I left school at 15 with no qualifications and no trade, drifting from unskilled job to unskilled job, getting my girlfriend pregnant and ending up in a B&B waiting for a council flat. I applied for a job with the then, London Transport as a Guard on the tube trains in late 1988, and am now one of Londons most hated. [url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11729222/I-pointed-out-how-much-tube-drivers-earn.-Some-people-werent-happy.html"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11729222/I-pointed-out-how-much-tube-drivers-earn.-Some-people-werent-happy.html[/url] Even this year, i was thinking about getting a new USA Fender Precision, but still felt a pang of guilt even though I could now afford it. And a nice house and car. I suppose you never really lose your roots. [/quote] I've worked on the Transport since 88 too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 A charlady/domestic cleaner. It could be a regional term as well as being old-fashioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 [quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1450819386' post='2936237'] I suppose you never really lose your roots. [/quote] As Mr. Larkin said in This Be The Verse.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) I reckon that the music press insistence that all bands should either be working class or pretend to be has more or less been dropped in the past five years or so. There have certainly been a proliferation of artists in the charts who come from backgrounds rather better off than I would even regard as middle class, and no-one really attempts to pretend otherwise now. I'm thinking of Florence Welch, James Blunt, Coldplay, Lily Allen, the wretched Mumfords and quite a few more. There have been hand-wringing Guardian articles on the phenomenon, of course. I do worry a little that it has probably got harder for anyone without some resources behind them to really get started in the music industry now. Edited December 22, 2015 by Beer of the Bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzneck Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Rowlocks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Although I was born in the UK, I grew up elsewhere and this fascination with supposed "class" is equally fascinating and baffling. From the outside looking in it looks like a self-imposed categorisation which doesn't exist except in the minds of those who subscribe to the notion. I can't think of any other country where the social origin they were born into in would be factored into the potential or authenticity of a band. It's an amazing concept to think of yourself in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 [quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1450818151' post='2936212'] I seem to remember reading somewhere that the guys in Genesis and Pink Floyd started their working lives down the pit. [/quote] [quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1450818809' post='2936225'] Without wishing to diss anyone, but Phil Collins was born in Hounslow, an area not renowned for 'pit' activity............. Also did drama school ....ditto........ Only middle and upper class people can spot irony... [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 [quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1450824589' post='2936298'] ....I can't think of any other country where the social origin they were born into in would be factored into the potential or authenticity of a band. It's an amazing concept to think of yourself in that way. [/quote] Strongly ingrained into us by our lords and masters (thus betters) over many hundreds of years. We serfs and vassals know our place in the scheme of things. On a different but similar tack, In my youth (in the 1960s/70s) I was always surprised by how many musicians in 'famous' bands had university degrees (and / or had been to public school). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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