Getting valve tone without big amps and glowing bottles

[Dickyc1981]

Hi All,

Slightly interesting one.

I play in a modern blues band, and I'm after a vintage sound. Really I need a big amp with lots of valves but as a bit of a newbie to bass, I don't have the funds to get exactly what I'm after.

I have (an impulse buy) an Ashdown LB30. 30 Watt all valve. Sounds corking but is about 20 Watts underpowered for the band. I have to drive it so hard to get volume, so hard that I get too much bark its starts to go a little fuzzy and not where I want my sound to be.

I have now been looking at vintage amps at about 100W but unsure as I have just shelled out on an amp that I can't use.

However, I have come across what may be my holy grail. Ashdown do the Spyder Heads and Touring Combos which appear to have an all valve preamp section with a totally passive tone stage and the power section from the ABM amps.

Is this my holy grail? I know I won't get the valve tone from the power stage but will I get the nice valve warmth, tone and grit when I need it from just an all valve preamp stage?

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. As you can guess I'm not a total newbie and as I'm a sound engineer I understand the sound side of it (If that makes sense).

Thanks one and all!

[xgsjx]

If you can take a lone out from the LB30 that bypasses the power amp section, then you could buy any lightweight amp & put the pre section of the LB into it.
Alternatively, buy any amp you like & put a valve pedal in front (such as a Sansamp or DHA VT1).

[gjones]

Try one of these. It does a good job of getting an Ampeg type valve sound. All for £19 from Thomann. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD0CN4rs8p8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv1fcgUq2ng[/url]

Edited August 27, 2014 by gjones

[Lozz196]

The pedal I found was most like a valve-amp was the DHA pedals. The Behringer BDI21 is also good, does have a definite "colour" to the tone though, but is a fair bit cheaper. Either should give great warm tones you`re after coupled with the Ashdown amps mentioned.

[Happy Jack]

Have you tried the Orange Terror Bass?

[dannybuoy]

Valve preamps can be designed to be very clean, e.g. Hartke LH500, or very grungy like the aforementioned Orange. Not sure where the Spyder sits - but just because it has a valve pre doesn't mean it'll sound like an LB30.

I use an Orange Terror Bass myself, and warm it up even more with a pedal - I recommend the Bearfoot FX Blueberry, Catalinbread SFT, or Xotic Bass BB Preamp as my current favourites. Not a fan of the Sansamp stuff personally.

Other amp options I would look at are the TC Electronic Classic or RH series, Genz Benz Streamliner, Aguilar TH500, Markbass TTE and GK MB Fusion. But I would start with the Orange, cheapest, simplest and dirtiest of the lot!

Edited August 27, 2014 by dannybuoy

[phil.c60]

I have used an Ampeg B200r Rocket bass combo, 200w, valve pre-amp, solid state power amp with various blues based bands over the last five years. Nice vintage look, I like the tone and it's been quite reliable. One or two issues with the edge connector between the two boards (mostly vibration induced I think) but apart from that it's been very good. It has no trouble keeping up with a hard-hitting drummer, loud guitarist and harp player going at it full tilt without the slightest struggle. It also has a great xlr DI out thats adjustable for level, 4 band eq and low/md/high boost. Worth looking for second hand.

[davehux]

I had a Spyder 330 for a short time, after selling my LB30 (for the same reason as you). Very underwhelming amp with IMHO not much valve warmth to it.

Had an Orange TB500 - fantastic rock/metal amp. Bit of a one-trick pony, but great if you like that trick.

Now have a Markbass TTE500 - smooth, valvey, manageable grit when you want it, and whack the gain right up. Tons of volume. Overall the best amp I've owned

[budget bassist]

Depends what sort of sound you're after I suppose, like other have said. if you're after a warm slightly broken up sound, the Ashdown LB30 would be nice, but then at gig levels, if you have to crank it, you may end up with way too much drive.
I have an Ashdown ABM, they're fairly cheap second hand and it lets you dial in a really nice valve preamp sound and means you can get plenty of volume without any more drive than you want. I love it!

[discreet]

+1 to the Streamliner and the Fusion.

[Merton]

The Ashdown Touring/Spyder amps were designed to be clean valve preamps, not dirty

[Opticaleye]

I can recommend the TTE500. Creamy valvey goodness. Alternatively I used to use a DHA VT1 EQ DI in front of a clean amp. It certainly has a very valvey sound if not the "feel" of the TTE.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Tube tone doesn't just come from the pre-amp, it also comes from the power tubes and the output transformer, so a tube pre on its own won't give tube tone. A great deal of what contributes to tube tone is compression, so to emulate it you should have a compressor in your signal chain, preferably not a 'one-knob wonder'.

[Opticaleye]

The Markbass TTE has an incorporated valve compressor. I use my Markbass Compressore as well but it still sounds tubey with all compression off.
I've had all tube amps before and used rented ones on tours etc. and the TTE nails it IMO. No idea what their "tube tone emulation" power amp does that's any different to their standard power amp stage but it seems to work.

[discreet]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1409234528' post='2537811']
Tube tone doesn't just come from the pre-amp, it also comes from the power tubes and the output transformer, so a tube pre on its own won't give tube tone.
A great deal of what contributes to tube tone is compression, so to emulate it you should have a compressor in your signal chain, preferably not a 'one-knob wonder'.
[/quote]

Quite true, a valve pre will give you a bit of drive or grit but for [i]real[/i] heft, only an all-valve amp will give you the 'all-valve bounce'.

[skidder652003]

used a DHA VT-EQ 2 into a SWR workimg pro 700 and it sounds fab and valvey..BUT nothing like my Ampeg SVT-CL, so i think you can get an approximation of that tone but not quite, but to be honest most punters couldn't care less!!!

[Dickyc1981]

Thanks for the replies all!

Some things to think about, think I'm going to go for an amp with a pedal in front to give me the drive for the odd song where I need it.

Hopefully that will work.

[dannybuoy]

For vintage overdrive I can't recommend the Bearfoot FX Blueberry enough: http://www.bearfootfx.com/product/blueberry-bass-overdrive/

I've tried so many overdrive pedals but this is the one that I will settle down and grow old with!

[Marsy]

Aw, so I won't be getting that blueberry off ya in the classifieds section DannyBuoy???

[bassmachine2112]

+1 for the Orange terror bass

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='Marsy' timestamp='1409383926' post='2539131']
Aw, so I won't be getting that blueberry off ya in the classifieds section DannyBuoy???
[/quote]

Haha, no chance - I've sold nearly every new od/fuzz pedal I've acquired lately but hanging onto this!

[M@23]

[quote name='davehux' timestamp='1409226004' post='2537684']
I had a Spyder 330 for a short time, after selling my LB30 (for the same reason as you). Very underwhelming amp with IMHO not much valve warmth to it.

Had an Orange TB500 - fantastic rock/metal amp. Bit of a one-trick pony, but great if you like that trick.

Now have a Markbass TTE500 - smooth, valvey, manageable grit when you want it, and whack the gain right up. Tons of volume. Overall the best amp I've owned
[/quote]

I love the TTE500. Really great amp! I want one.

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1409234528' post='2537811']
Tube tone doesn't just come from the pre-amp, it also comes from the power tubes and the output transformer, so a tube pre on its own won't give tube tone. A great deal of what contributes to tube tone is compression, so to emulate it you should have a compressor in your signal chain, preferably not a 'one-knob wonder'.
[/quote]
+1. The dynamic impact of a valve amp comes from its power stage. Having said that, some of the sound does come from the valve pre. Both my gigging amps (see signature) have a 3-valve pre-amp, rather than just a single valve gain stage, so at least the EQ reacts like that of a valve amp.

[rayjames]

I'm a guitarist but have turned to bass because I can make some fairly fast progress and seems a lot of fun in my declining years

My guitar style is very much BB King while my bass hero is James Jamerson

I suggest that you forget about the valve vs SS debate and try out lots of different amps until you find one you like. The only problem might be that what sounds good in a shop (and at home) may not stand up so well on a gig

You read loads of stuff about gear like "The best amp I ever used was an xxx" but it's only a matter of opinion. The conclusion I've come to is to most punters out there won't know the difference. And even if you were a punter yourself, things can often sound very different when you're 50 feet from the stage in the middle of a full audience

We choose gear because it appeals to us - I would follow your instincts. If it HAS to be a valve amp, get a valve amp

But if not, keep an open mind

[3below]

[quote name='rayjames' timestamp='1409408321' post='2539440']
...... try out lots of different amps until you find one you like. The only problem might be that what sounds good in a shop (and at home) may not stand up so well on a gig

[/quote]

Forgive the pun but that is very sound advice. It is also the combination of speaker cab and amp (stating the obvious). I found Peavey amp (Tour 700) much more to my taste (tighter, less wooly low end) than either Marshall VBA 400 or Sound City 120 with both of my Barefaced speakers.

Edited August 30, 2014 by 3below