Selfish Musicians

[discreet]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1388520310' post='2323108']
I had the last laugh though - his wife left him & he died.
[/quote]

I love a happy ending.

[icastle]

Ah.
A James Bond question - I'm good at those...

Is it...

You only play twice
Once when you play with a git
and once when you smack him between the eyes.

?

[paul_5]

Yup, definitely something about keyboard players. I've been in bands with a few and they were all (with 2 exceptions) twats of the highest order.

The 2 exceptions though are 2 of the most helpful, self-effacing and lovely people you could wish to meet.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1388520164' post='2323103']
My thread is about asking if other players have had this experience. Have you had s similar gig with such an egotistical musician?
[/quote]

Fortunately not. Not being that great, we're careful to rehearse each gig and agree the playlist. We then stick to it (which is probably the most professional thing about us ).

On the other hand, I've never played with a keyboard player, so perhaps I have that 'pleasure' to come?

Edited December 31, 2013 by flyfisher

[Roger2611]

I worked briefly with a guitarist who had recently auditioned for a short tour with an X Factor loser who throughout the rehearsal didn't speak to any of the musicians, everything was done through the manager like "tell the guitarist he is not playing what I want" and "tell the bass player he is too loud" he didn't get offered the gig but with that attitude I would be very surprised if any gig went ahead, had I been there I am sure she would have been rushed swiftly to hospital for a mike stand removal procedure!

[TimR]

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1388520164' post='2323103']
My thread is about asking if other players have had this experience. Have you had s similar gig with such an egotistical musician?
[/quote]

No.

However, I enjoy a challenge, next time he calls give him my number.

[spinynorman]

We used to have a keys player in our band. At the start, none of us had played in bands before, or at least not for some time. He was a good pub pianist and very self confident, so he could shine over everyone else. After some time the band got stronger as a unit and the guitarist started to assert himself a bit more, which led to conflicts. Eventually the keys player left and started a new band, with a very weak guitarist and a bass player you can never hear. I came to the conclusion he only likes to play with people who aren't as good as him.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1388513409' post='2322948']
A few years ago, a guitarist I knew really well asked me if I'd stand in for a scratch band for a local pub gig. The songs were mostly soul and funk. I agreed, and as the gig was a week away, I asked for a set list. I already knew some of the songs, but as I was busy that week, I printed off chord sheets for the others.

When I got to the gig, the keyboard player, who has been a fairly successful musician in the past, barely spoke to me. We started the first set with a couple of songs I knew. Then the keyboard player launched into half a dozen songs he'd written, of which I'd never heard before. I'm not the greatest busker, and I ended up making a hash of the songs. The rest of the gig continuedwith the same scenario...more songs that weren't on the set list I'd been sent. I hated the whole experience.

Fast forward a couple of years. I was again asked to stand in for a different band, which was put together by our backing singer. I asked for a set list, which consisted of soul and funk numbers again. Guess who the keyboard player was? There were only a handful of people at the gig, and again he decided to play his own stuff, despite the fact that this time I'd actually learned the songs beforehand, spending a fair few hours doing so.

I vowed never to play with this selfish twat ever again.

If I was in the bandleader's position and needed a dep, I would do the following things:

a) Ask the dep which songs he already knew and write a set list around those.

Make him feel welcome at the gig.

c) Stick to that set list.

d) Not make him feel uncomfortable by playing unfamiliar songs.

d) Realise that an audience would probably pick up on his mistakes, and ruin their enjoyment of the songs.

e) Not let someone's massive ego ruin the gig.

Any thoughts on this?
[/quote]

plus 1 from me, Pete...

But I don't understand why people work with this guy in the first place, tbh.

Edited December 31, 2013 by JTUK

[paulbass]

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1388513409' post='2322948']
A few years ago, a guitarist I knew really well asked me if I'd stand in for a scratch band for a local pub gig. The songs were mostly soul and funk. I agreed, and as the gig was a week away, I asked for a set list. I already knew some of the songs, but as I was busy that week, I printed off chord sheets for the others.

When I got to the gig, the keyboard player, who has been a fairly successful musician in the past, barely spoke to me. We started the first set with a couple of songs I knew. Then the keyboard player launched into half a dozen songs he'd written, of which I'd never heard before. I'm not the greatest busker, and I ended up making a hash of the songs. The rest of the gig continuedwith the same scenario...more songs that weren't on the set list I'd been sent. I hated the whole experience.

Fast forward a couple of years. I was again asked to stand in for a different band, which was put together by our backing singer. I asked for a set list, which consisted of soul and funk numbers again. Guess who the keyboard player was? There were only a handful of people at the gig, and again he decided to play his own stuff, despite the fact that this time I'd actually learned the songs beforehand, spending a fair few hours doing so.

I vowed never to play with this selfish twat ever again.

If I was in the bandleader's position and needed a dep, I would do the following things:

a) Ask the dep which songs he already knew and write a set list around those.

Make him feel welcome at the gig.

c) Stick to that set list.

d) Not make him feel uncomfortable by playing unfamiliar songs.

d) Realise that an audience would probably pick up on his mistakes, and ruin their enjoyment of the songs.

e) Not let someone's massive ego ruin the gig.

Any thoughts on this?
[/quote]
Keyboard player has an ego....only having a handful of people second time round in the audience says it all.
I would like to see the keyboard player in your position standing in only to find a member of the band going into a 'solo look at me' spot how would he handle it.
never play with him again....nuff said!

[Bassman Sam]

I know how good a player you are Pete, having seen you live. The keyboard player in question is out of order to ask you busk original stuff that you have never heard before. The ego has landed.

I would have nutted him in the dressing room after gig, therefore never having to play with him again. [size=4] [/size]

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Dom in Somerset' timestamp='1388513789' post='2322956']
Nothing to add except that I agree with you entirely.
[/quote]

Likewise.

[JTUK]

Awkward position to be in if a good musical friend dropped you into that situation...
but this all goes to judgement of people and players and I think the idea is not to have those sort
of people in your playing circle.

There is a lot of vetting of people who come and go and this guy wouldn't last if that sort of
thing went on. Nobody would play with him...

If someone calls and says so and so gave them your number, then that referring person is endorsing that person.
It really does them no good to have f***-ups like that and if it did happen, it would cause quite a problem
and the referrer would be forever apologising...
and that makes it not a repeatable situation.

There are enough stitch-ups on gigs that you try and avoid, of course, without an idiot doing it on purpose.

I think the keys was trying to proove something.... and the target seem to be someone in the band and make them sound bad.
trouble is.... who would risk their reputation like that...??

You are only as good as your last gig...and a lot of damage done for no reason.

If you build a name as a drop-in band..you have to sound like you know what you are doing and have great moments... there is no point otherwise
and you wont get the gigs...or the money

[chris_b]

Sounds like you did good enough job to cover the bass department and, even if you were uncomfortable, I don't think the audience would be aware of the problems you were experiencing.

I had a dep before Christmas and I was made to feel that there was something lacking in me when I asked for a set list. Apparently the guitarist/singer starts the numbers and "we just play along"! I gave them 2 weeks to come up with a set list, which they didn't, so I took another gig.

I'd rather get it right every time, but the gig was paying enough for me to completely busk the night if something else hadn't come up, and if they didn't care about the band or gig who am [i]I[/i] to worry. I doubt if they'll be asking again, which doesn't bother me.

[leschirons]

Sounds like a nightmare. I think the key to all this is your line " the keyboard player, who has been a fairly successful musician in the past" with "the past" being the important bit. He's obviously not successful now because people know what he's like. Without doubt, a "big fish in little pond" situation.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of folks out there with a much higher opinion of themselves than is in truth, deserving and in this case, he obviously doesn't realise that in doing what he'd done at these gigs, he's the least professional person on the stage.

Each band member has a duty (I believe) to do what they can to ensure the song, the performance and the band is the best they can offer to any audience on the night. Sounds like you certainly kept your end of the bargain up anyway. As (I think Flyfisher) pointed out, seems strange that he would put people in this position at a live gig knowing (as he's been a fairly successful musician in the past) that it might make the whole band look bad

[Pete Academy]

I just think if you are asked to dep for a gig, and it's maybe the day before, and you are a decent busker, you should be expected to be put on on the spot. If you have a week to prep for it, the band should look after you, and make you feel comfortable.

[Pete Academy]

Happy new year to everyone.

I still think that keyboard player is a twat.

[BobVbass]

[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I just think if you are asked to dep for a gig, and it's maybe the day before, and you are a decent busker, you should be expected to be put on on the spot. If you have a week to prep for it, the band should look after you, and make you feel comfortable. [/font][/color][/quote]

100% right - most keyboardists seem to be at least 80% assh*le but he sounds like he's graduated with first class chocolate tea towel holder honours

Haven't done a gig like that but went for an audition last year with a band who sounded a really good laugh - I arranged to just come along for an impromptu jam to see how we got along, the morning after a particularly late gig as well just to suit them - everyone was fine except for the guitarist who played at a volume that would have made the back row of Wembley wince; stopped various songs (bearing in mind this was a "shall we have a bash at this song" type jam) to tell people (me, keyboardist, drummer) they played bits wrong and then proceeded to run up and down his fretboard in some obscure scale while saying "feel the burn baby" between numbers while staring at me - I left after that

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='BobVbass' timestamp='1388655746' post='2324345']
...proceeded to run up and down his fretboard in some obscure scale while saying "feel the burn baby" between numbers while staring at me...
[/quote]

Good grief! 'Feel the burn, baby'? Does this man lack [i]all [/i]self-awareness?

Anyhow, I have a solution to the keytard problem other than unleashing a leopard on him or luring him to a deserted warehouse, etc., etc.

Simply give him a bell and offer him a gig. Send him a comprehensive setlist and play absolutely none of it on the night. Worth £50 to watch him sat there doing nothing and glowering for an hour or two.

[EBS_freak]

If this is the keys player I think it is, he's a pretty good busker so you wouldn't likely scare him off that easily skank. He'd be ripping it up all over whatever was being played!

[SpaceChick]

[quote name='BobVbass' timestamp='1388655746' post='2324345']
100% right - most keyboardists seem to be at least 80% assh*le but he sounds like he's graduated with first class chocolate tea towel holder honours

Haven't done a gig like that but went for an audition last year with a band who sounded a really good laugh - I arranged to just come along for an impromptu jam to see how we got along, the morning after a particularly late gig as well just to suit them - everyone was fine except for the guitarist who played at a volume that would have made the back row of Wembley wince; stopped various songs (bearing in mind this was a "shall we have a bash at this song" type jam) to tell people (me, keyboardist, drummer) they played bits wrong and then proceeded to run up and down his fretboard in some obscure scale while saying "feel the burn baby" between numbers while staring at me - I left after that
[/quote]

Reminds me of an audition I went to where the keys player was a complete and utter egotist. he suggested songs, then stopped half way through to say how we were all doing it wrong, not just me, but the drummer and the rhythm guitarist. The lead guitarist was just as bad and thought he was gods gift to Fender.... he was dreadful.

Ironically, I rang afterwards to turn them down only to be told "well you werent right for us anyway, but keep it up and practising helps experience, so don't give up" I don't think I laughed so much when I came off the phone!! They really did have over inflated opinions of their own abilities!

My current keys player is a complete sweetheart and I adore him. He works hard, has a light touch with his left hand and is a real sweetiepie.

[lojo]

The one thing I don't understand is why would someone want to play their own songs if they new their fellow band members would struggle to busk it and do it any justice at all, surely thats not in the interest of the one who wants their songs heard ?

[Bilbo]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1388520439' post='2323112']
....liked to make their solos about ten times longer at gigs than at rehearsal - and I mean excessively long. [/quote]

I am a Jazz musician, It is what we do

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1388674694' post='2324645']
The one thing I don't understand is why would someone want to play their own songs if they new their fellow band members would struggle to busk it and do it any justice at all, surely thats not in the interest of the one who wants their songs heard ?
[/quote]

It's not necessarily that, it's that they are used to playing with a set group of musicians who know each other repertoire and are used to just getting up there and playing. It's a mindset that they have got used to I suppose as opposed to out and out selfishness?

I feel for Pete - it can be a bit of a baptism of fire and I've been caught in the exact same situation... (probably with the same keys player!). Thing is, when I was playing, I was at a bigger disadvantage to the rest of the guys on stage because I didn't even know the original of the song that they were playing, let alone their cover version.

All I can say is, I've worked on improving my ear and trying to read other players!

[lojo]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1388675244' post='2324659']
It's not necessarily that, it's that they are used to playing with a set group of musicians who know each other repertoire and are used to just getting up there and playing.
[/quote]

Surely he must have been aware the bass player did not know his songs ? If he was informed otherwise, and others new he would do this, then its a different story to the one told

[TimR]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1388675244' post='2324659']


It's not necessarily that, it's that they are used to playing with a set group of musicians who know each other repertoire and are used to just getting up there and playing. It's a mindset that they have got used to I suppose as opposed to out and out selfishness?

I feel for Pete - it can be a bit of a baptism of fire and I've been caught in the exact same situation... (probably with the same keys player!). Thing is, when I was playing, I was at a bigger disadvantage to the rest of the guys on stage because I didn't even know the original of the song that they were playing, let alone their cover version.

All I can say is, I've worked on improving my ear and trying to read other players!
[/quote]

This, in spades.

Learn the notes on the piano and watch his left hand like a hawk.

It'll happen again with another player.