Bass tone - Mostly the player isn't it?

[4 Strings]

Went to see The Fellowship (with Guthrie Govan and co.) a week or so back. Not seen them in a little while, and was reminded what a fabulous Jazz Bass tone Seth has.

Thing is, I know if I bought his set up it would sound like me. Regardless of his SWR rig, the valve preamp, his fine Custom Shop Jazz etc his tone comes from his playing.

Yes, it sounds like him playing his Jazz bass, as opposed to his Warwick, but, frankly, that would be difficult to tell without looking. Another pub band bass player I used to see regularly swaps between a Stingray and Warwick, in his hands its pretty difficult to tell which us which without looking. JJ sounds like JJ on a Precision, Entwistle like Entwistle, Macca like.... etc.

I'm not arguing about the basic sounds of basses (I can generally tell a Jazz from a P from a 'Ray from a Rick) but the tone is largely from the player. I'm also careful in my choice of gear and settings to get the tone I'm after for various projects, but in the end it sounds like me on the bass. Jaco on a Jaydee or a Jazz sounds like Jaco. I can recognise JJ more easily than I can recognise a Precision. I can recognise Macca more easily than I can tell you if its his Hofner or Rick.

Seth sounds so good because he is streets ahead of me as a bass player. Surely a week spent practicing and playing is going to improve my tone way more than choices of wood/valve/bridge etc. Apart from the tone that comes from the relative clumisness or otherwise of my finger dexterity if I'm able to provide a passage in Dorian mode to lift the spirit of a song, (should my theory rise to this level!) or provide a Latin fill then surely I will be making much more of a contribution and influence to the sound than if I have a single cut body (or even a 5th or 6th string).

Shouldn't we all be getting on with some serious study and practice rather than spending our time and money concerning ourselves so deeply with minutiae of guitar/amp/speaker construction?

[LukeFRC]

yes

[visog]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1357401065' post='1922130']
Shouldn't we all be getting on with some serious study and practice rather than spending our time and money concerning ourselves so deeply with minutiae of guitar/amp/speaker construction?
[/quote]

Definitely! But to your point, it's a bit of both really - Macca's musical note choices on a Hofner, Entwistle's gnarly blues runs on his Alembic, Squire's melodic parts on a clanky Rick, Stanley's snapped melodies on his Alembic and Jaco's back pick-up 16th note funk or his woody singing fretless Jazz bass.

I think the best players have their own vocabulary enhanced by a distinctive voice from their bass/gear.

Edited January 5, 2013 by visog

[Lozz196]

Agreed, I always sound like me, and doubt I could ever sound like, say Ed Friedland, The Bass Whisperer, as I`m far too hard-hitting. Though am currently looking at that, as have really worked on playing with fingers rather than a pick over the last few months. I think my identity will always be there, but I want to be more flexible in my playing, so agree with the OP, it`s technique that gives us the identity, not so much the amps/basses etc. Though I still don`t fell I`m "me" if I play anything other than a Precision.

[Fat Rich]

Most players have some kind of ideal sound in their head and will probably adjust their playing style to get as close to that as possible whatever bass they pick up.

But there's a lot more a player can do to shape their sound by adjusting their technique and dynamics than by fussing over gear (assuming they're not using junk ).

[chris_b]

The player is either helped or hindered by his equipment and the guys he's playing with.

If you can't sort those two out then your fingers are fighting a loosing battle.

But, yes, all things being equal it's the player that makes the difference between good and great.

[BottomE]

Yes, yes. Its the player not the gear. Took me years to realise this

[stingrayPete1977]

It really is all in the fingers

[JTUK]

Lots of things shape a sound and style.
For a start. a lot of bass players have too much bass to get a tone
and the character is missing right from the off.
And once you are in that place tonally, you never might see or hear the need to refine
your techinique to speak or articulate any differenty.


Depends if you ask yourself what is missing...
Some people do and some people don't..or even want to.

If you spend your life listening to one genre and type of players, you probably wont get much exposure or influence
from elsewhere.

[bertbass]

It's certainly the player and I always sound like me but if I only had a little more of bass or treble or a little more distortion.

[White Cloud]

The name of the person playing the bass is much more important than the name on the headstock!

[gjones]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1357401588' post='1922146']
yes
[/quote]

Aha

[shizznit]

I have always believed that a significant portion of your tone does come from your fingers. How hard you grip the neck (finger pressure on the strings), how hard you pluck the strings, the angle that you are plucking the strings and your hand position away from the bridge. All these things do make a difference no matter what gear you are using. That's why emulating another players tone, even if you use the exact kit that they use, is not always straight forward.

You can get a lot of mileage out of a desired tone by being flexible with your playing technique and changing things around on the fly. It's not always about the bass, amp, strings etc... Not saying that it doesn't help...it does, but understanding how your physical technique contributes to a particular tone for a particular style makes every asset beyond (basses, amps etc...) supportive of your playing and not be the dominant attribute. It can be a slippery slope as a player if you think that using the same gear that your musical heroes use will either make you sound like them or magically improve your playing instantly. There are a lot of other basic things about your playing to consider first before opening your wallet.

[D.I. Joe]

You're absolutely right. In my opinion, the strings and the amp are the only parts of the setup (apart from effects obv.) which could affect the tone beyond recognition. But ultimately, an amp can only give out what is fed into it and a string only vibrates in the way that you make it.

[Mikey R]

Its part of the story. However, after a fair few years playing bass, its fairly common for players to want to experiment with different bits of kit and see how it changes how they interact with the instrument.

Sure, when I play I sound like me, but when I play through a decent valve compressor I sound a little more like me.

Your choices of instruments, how you set them up, which ones you choose for which senario, which effects you use to achieve the tone necessary for that section of that song, as well as how you vary your picking technique during that section, are also part of the story. How big a part is up to you as a player.

[TheGreek]

You also need to factor in style, personal licks/fills that we're familiar with and timing - for instance, some players will play on the off beat rather than on the 1 beat, some are "busy" by nature, others more laid back.

I can hear stuff played by Bassface 2K10 (known him for over 30 years) and know it's him - whether it's played live or recorded, using his gear or mine. I can also hear him play stuff and tell him that it's "not him" - wrong "feel" - It's like I sometimes re-write his licks for him so that he sounds more like "him".

At the same time, I often hear stuff by other bassplayers who sound like they're ripping him off!!

[BigRedX]

People here talk about tone as if it's a single fixed thing for each player. I don't think that's true.

Your tone should be a combination of your playing technique, the equipment you are using, which are then tailored to the overall needs of the song.

In the 35+ years that I've owned and played bass guitars my tone has changed as my playing technique changed, as I used different basses and amps and as I moved from one band to another. In fact for me perhaps the biggest influence for my tone was the kind of music I was playing the the instrumentation of the band I was in at any one time. This would shape my playing style and equipment choices so I had the right bass sound(s) for each particular band and its song(s).

Maybe those players who have what could be described as a "signature" tone have done all their major playing development before they had an audience to hear them, and have stuck mostly to a single kind of music since?

[stingrayPete1977]

When playing in a covers band situation I will play fingers, slap, pick and thumb with a palm mute techniques all of which will make a more noticeable difference to the audience than the type of bass I am using

[shizznit]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1357407903' post='1922289']
When playing in a covers band situation I will play fingers, slap, pick and thumb with a palm mute techniques all of which will make a more noticeable difference to the audience than the type of bass I am using
[/quote]

Bang on! Playing in covers band is a relatively new experience for me and I notice that how being able to change my technique affects the tonality to suit the song we are playing. Otherwise, I would be switching over to multiple basses and waste needless time tweaking the EQ on my backline during after each song in the set. It's never going to be 100% accurate to the original bass player for sure and sometimes I just prefer using my personal 'go-to' tone anyway, but the ultimate shortcut for me is being able to adapt my playing technique for each song. It's not easy by any means, but it focussing more on my dexterity across different genres and styles helps to minismise the amount of gear that I need every time I leave the house.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1357409049' post='1922320']
Bang on! Playing in covers band is a relatively new experience for me and I notice that how being able to change my technique affects the tonality to suit the song we are playing. Otherwise, I would be switching over to multiple basses and waste needless time tweaking the EQ on my backline during after each song in the set. It's never going to be 100% accurate to the original bass player for sure and sometimes I just prefer using my personal 'go-to' tone anyway, but the ultimate shortcut for me is being able to adapt my playing technique for each song. It's not easy by any means, but it focussing more on my dexterity across different genres and styles helps to minismise the amount of gear that I need every time I leave the house.
[/quote]

My version of The Stone Roses She Bangs the Drum played on my Stingray with a pick near the bridge will sound closer to the record than a guy playing it slapped through Mani's Rig

Sure if you nail Chic Le Freak on one of my pre EB Rays it sounds ace but would an average guest at a wedding be able to tell it from a Jazz bass once in the mix?

Edited January 5, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[machinehead]

Agreed!

Although I own a range of bass gear I really believe I could get by perfectly well with any single one of each of my bass/amp/cab collection.

After many years playing I think I can change sound and tone reasonably well by variations of right and left hand techniques and positions.

I also think that in a blindfolded test, changing various playing styles would be more easily heard than changing a piece of gear.

Frank.

[BottomE]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1357401065' post='1922130']
Shouldn't we all be getting on with some serious study and practice rather than spending our time and money concerning ourselves so deeply with minutiae of guitar/amp/speaker construction?
[/quote]

Study doesn't have to be serious

[thepurpleblob]

Don't forget that if you go to a gig (or listen to a recording) there's thousands of pounds worth of digital trickery and a sound engineer between you and the real musicians. I'm not sure where you draw the line.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1357419300' post='1922513']
Don't forget that if you go to a gig (or listen to a recording) there's thousands of pounds worth of digital trickery and a sound engineer between you and the real musicians. I'm not sure where you draw the line.
[/quote]

Depends on the gig! Almost every gig I go to has a few people between me and the real musicians.

Regardless of the recording techniques and equipment etc can still tell the bass player easier than the bass.

[Mornats]

Yes.

I sound like me on any gear.

Anyone else sounds like themselves on my gear.