solo4652 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Hi folks, Got an outdoor charity gig coming up. My rig: Fender MIJ P (or possibly USA G&L L2000) through Gallien Krueger MB500 + Barefaced Compact, no pedals or effects at all. Band: fairly noisy 6-piece pub-rock band, 2 guitars, heavy-handed drummer Site: Outside, in open-air, not in a marquee, on hard surface, not on any sort of stage Audience: Unsure of numbers - probably between 100 and 200 Will I be loud enough? Would it help if I got the Compact off the ground using some sort of stand like this: [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320917163707"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320917163707[/url] All advice appreciated, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 The whole band should be going through a PA system with FOH engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzbassist Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1340183381' post='1700402'] The whole band should be going through a PA system with FOH engineer. [/quote] +1 to this. Bass frequencies disappear very quickly in a live setting, so FOH is pretty much essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1340183381' post='1700402'] The whole band should be going through a PA system with FOH engineer. [/quote] +2 Steve. The Blues Brothers/Commitments band I play with are doing the American Car Show at Tatton Park next weekend and we are taking a 6Kw PA system and everything will be going through it. Stage is a trailer so another challenge there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 [quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1340185890' post='1700495'] +2 Steve. The Blues Brothers/Commitments band I play with are doing the American Car Show at Tatton Park next weekend and we are taking a 6Kw PA system and everything will be going through it. Stage is a trailer so another challenge there. [/quote] 6KW PA system - blimey. I'll put myself through our PA system (which has bass bins) for our outdoor gig, and use the Compact as a monitor. We did a trailer gig last year. There was plenty of room, but the "stage" was fairly deep with solid sides. Standing at the back, I could just about see straight ahead, but nothing to the sides - bit like looking out through a tunnel. I was quite a way back from the singers and their monitors, so I was glad of my own monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Of course, FOH should be used but if the event is doing this to keep a handle on costs, there are two things to consider. 1st... if cost is limited, should you be doing it? and 2nd.. the rig should surely be loud enough if you are sensible and don't ALL try going hell for leather..which is where the bass freqs tend to get over-run. But I run a 550 w rig just for this type of occasion...well...more like for the stage sound, but it works for small outdoors.. At times like these, you'll need that heavy handed drummer..as this is where you will run out of steam first, sound-wise. Go for the mix rather than the volume..!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I did a trailer gig last year, side on so had loads of space. We either DI'd or mic'd everything up including the drums and fed it through a 5 KW PA. It is the only way IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 +1 Mix over volume. If you have FOH use it. If not, you're going to have to watch you levels. the bass and the kick drum will vanish first. If everyone is too loud you'll get a tinny sound and people won't want to listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 No! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 With only one 15 inch speaker, I doubt it will be loud enough, even though Barefaced cabs are very good. Having done an outdoor gig with a Marshall 412 bass cab, and hearing how the lows really vanish - massive re-eqing was needed - I`m sure you`ll need more air being pushed, or, as all the others have said, go through an external PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt on your Bass? Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I recently played outdoors for the first time. Similar set up by sounds of things, but a jubilee party. About 100 tö 150. Noisy pub rock band. Using an otb500 and a compact, i drowned out the unmicd drums. If the drums are micd, make sure theres enough power for you, if not, i reckon youll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Where outside ? if you are in a school playground or at the back of the village hall, the hard reflective surfaces will help loads. But set up on grass in the middle of a field you could be sunk. see you mention bass bins+ On big gigs I do mic guitar and pan across PA and DI mine just to give weight but you need drums mic'd bass drum and Highhat, min. Tip if there are any spare fold out tables, grab three or four and lay them on there side behind you to reflect your sound out, great for open backed guitar combos and helps the drums too, and allows you to hear each othe better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I bought the 2x18 specifically for outdoor gigs. It pretty much gives me my 2x15 sound. That's as stage monitor as much as anything. I don't necessarily recommend anyone do the same!! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I have used 2x112 and 2x210 with a 500w amp outside recently..with the kick through the P.A.. and I easily cover this gig.and we can be pretty loud. My cabs are upto it for sure ..as is the P.A for vox and keys and gtr bleeds. You just need to know your kit can do the job and be driven but it helps if the P.A is pretty manly and can handle a good 600w per side amp efficiently.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 For any speaker bass is radiated 360 degrees, in all directions. Higher frequencies are radiated in an increasingly tight 'beam'. In a normal room the deep bass will be reflected off rear walls, floors and ceilings depending upon the exact dimensions. This will give something like 6db's of bass boost, possibly more which is the equivalent of four times the power so if you use 250W normally you are going to need 1000w to make the same sound. Because you lose bass more than the top end you will have to use a lot of eq to retain your sound. Raising your cab will enable you to hear yourself better but will cut bass even further than if you place it on the floor. Your choices are: Use a bigger amp and speakers Go through the PA Accept that for one gig you won't be getting the same tone and volume. A couple of other things to worry about, get some windshields for all your mics worry about the earth, run everything from the same socket so they all have the same earth potential and earth any metal trailers of scaffolding. Use an RCD earth current breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1340195698' post='1700761'] At times like these, you'll need that heavy handed drummer..as this is where you will run out of steam first, sound-wise. [/quote] That's also my experience when playing outdoor parties.. Our 1000w PA was OK and we had mic'd the kick drum, but we found it was the cymbals that disappeared unless we used a couple of overhead mics and also fed those through the PA. Made a big difference to the overall sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Outdoor without even a back drop to reflect sound? 5K PA at the minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 [quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1340236044' post='1701676'] ...worry about the earth, run everything from the same socket so they all have the same earth potential and earth any metal trailers of scaffolding. Use an RCD earth current breaker.[/quote] All good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I have to go with the flow here. For any gig like this I'd be looking for a 6kW PA, decent bass bins and with a fully mic'ed up drum kit with someone who knows what they're doing on the PA desk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I think I'd look at this from a different angle, say 47 degees. You arrive at the Dog & Custard pub and the landlord says to you, "Lovely evening, I'll have you playing in the beer garden tonight". What do you do? You just get on with it. Find a reasonably flat bit of ground to set up on so you're not leaning all night, set up, sound check and play. You're lucky knowing in advance that you'll be playing outside and can take an extra cab or whatever you need, but normally you've just got to use what you've got with you. I'm sure it will be OK. The other band members may well be worse off than you. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 Went to spec out the venue today in the [b][i]pouring[/i][/b] rain. The event organiser suggested we played in the middle of a field with no stage, on grass, no backdrop, away from the main area where everything else was happening. We politely declined, and asked to look at the big barn. Much better - under cover, adequate number of power sockets, can set up in a corner, hard surface underfoot, easy access for gear lugging. So, we said we'd play in the barn but not outside. Agreed, said organiser. Phew. Just need to constantly remind the guitarist and singer that it's a family fun-day for charity, so no snarling or swearing. I've bought 4 inflatable guitars off ebay so that kids can play air-guitar with us if they want. That'll completely spook both guitarists. Should be a good event after the noisy pub gig the night before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 [quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1340185890' post='1700495'] +2 Steve. The Blues Brothers/Commitments band I play with are doing the American Car Show at Tatton Park next weekend and we are taking a 6Kw PA system and everything will be going through it. Stage is a trailer so another challenge there. [/quote] Have you seen the weather forecast for the North West this weekend? I really hope you're under cover at Tatton park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I played a gig in Somerset from the back of a trailer in May. It rained right after our set and we had to dismantle the PA quickly as the plugs were out in the open. Very very surprisingly, nothing went bang. (Off-topic I know, but I have no idea what the power of our PA was - sorry!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 [quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1340380867' post='1703830'] Have you seen the weather forecast for the North West this weekend? I really hope you're under cover at Tatton park. [/quote] It's next week-end Steve, (30th June, 1st July). Although it will still probably be raining. Previous yeras it HAS been a 32ft Covered trailer as in the pic here. [url="http://www.cheshireautopromotions.co.uk/american.php"]http://www.cheshireautopromotions.co.uk/american.php[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 [quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1340374800' post='1703622'] I think I'd look at this from a different angle, say 47 degees. You arrive at the Dog & Custard pub and the landlord says to you, "Lovely evening, I'll have you playing in the beer garden tonight". What do you do? [/quote] You say, sorry, we don't play outdoors, equipment is too valuable . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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