BGM! Is it all that?

[thebrig]

I've just received my final copy of Bass Guitar Magazine after subscribing for three years.
When I first started reading it, I found it really informative and interesting, now I just flick through it in about 30 minutes, and don't bother to pick it up again.
I love reading reviews of new basses etc, but I found that they seem to predominantly review basses, that are way out of the averages bass player's price range, so because of all these things I cancelled my subscription.
When the final copy dropped through my door yesterday, I thought to myself, am I going to regret not getting it any more? but when I started reading it, I knew that I had done the right thing.
Once again, it was totally uninteresting, virtually the same adverts in every single copy (I know they have to make money), but I think I have seen Geddy Lee sitting on those Orange amps far too many times now, and interviews with mainly unknown bassists from not-very-well-known bands talking about their playing styles, telling us if they use a pick, or play finger style, whether they do, or don't slap etc, Yawn!!! and of coarse, then there is the great bass guitar review for millionaires!

They had a nice [b]£5,200[/b] [i]GMR Flow Out 6[/i] on review in this edition, think I'll just nip out and get me one! or I could save a bit, and get one of the [i]Enfields[/i], as they were only [b]£2,650[/b], or the [i]Yamaha TRBJP2[/i] for [b]£2,999[/b], or the [i]Dingwall Afterburner III[/i] [b]£2,845.[/b]
Ok, they did also include a couple of [i]Fret-King[/i] basses at just [b]£599[/b] and [b]£629[/b].

This must be really off-putting for younger players out there, who buy the magazine for ideas and inspiration on what's on offer, only to read about high-end basses all the time. There are so many great basses below £500, but how are they to know how they play and sound, if all they get to read about, are reviews on basses that only the rich and famous can afford.

Sorry, rant over!

I just needed to get this off my chest, and just wondered if any other BC's have similar thoughts.

If not, I will just have to accept that I am just a [b]grumpy old man![/b]

[discreet]

BGM [i]isn't [/i]all that. And you [i]are [/i]a grumpy old man!

[thebrig]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1336138864' post='1641490']
BGM [i]isn't [/i]all that. And you [i]are [/i]a grumpy old man!
[/quote]
Right & Right!

[dave_bass5]

I couldn't agree more, about time someone said it, although i would also say this is true for a lot of other magazines, not just BGM.

Then again there are many members on here that will buy that sort of stuff so i can see they are a good read for some.

[BigRedX]

TBH I don't think that people who spend a lot of time on Basschat are BGM's target audience. We're too well informed.

Also no matter what their reviewing policy is someone somewhere will be either disappointed or unimpressed. IMO they should concentrate on the less commonly found instruments, whether they be expensive or cheap, because anyone can go into a shop and try the others for themselves and make up their own minds. Lets face it no-one sensible goes out and buys a bass blind (deaf?) on the strength of only an instrument review.

When I first started playing back in the 70s I bought International Musician to get my information and gear porn fix. It didn't matter what they reviewed everything was out of my price range whether it was a £30 Audition from Woolies or a £1000 Travis Bean which would have to be imported from the US. None of that bothered me. I just wanted to find out what was out there so I could dream.

When I finally bought my first bass guitar, reviews had nothing to do with it. I bought the instrument that I liked the most that was in the shop at a price I could afford.

You're mistake is to think of musical instrument magazines as sources of hard information when in actual fact they are mostly about entertainment and porn for gear fetishists.

Edited May 4, 2012 by BigRedX

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1336140226' post='1641541']

You're mistake is to think of musical instrument magazines as sources of hard information when in actual fact they are mostly about entertainment and porn for gear fetishists.
[/quote]

Good point and one i agree with. I stopped buying mags when we got the internet. I do have a 3 month subscription with BGM for my iPad, but i dont really find 90% of it interesting to me. Its ok for when im hanging around at gigs etc but not something i will turn to for info.

[gafbass02]

I must admit. I've collected it since issue 1. As I did with bassist. And it saddens me to admit to myself that I think I've lost interest. I've also found increasingly little to interest me. Think okay knock it on the head. Might move on my back collection of both magazines too.

[thebrig]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1336140226' post='1641541']
TBH I don't think that people who spend a lot of time on Basschat are BGM's target audience. We're too well informed.

Also no matter what their reviewing policy is someone somewhere will be either disappointed or unimpressed. IMO they should concentrate on the less commonly found instruments, whether they be expensive or cheap, because anyone can go into a shop and try the others for themselves and make up their own minds. Lets face it no-one sensible goes out and buys a bass blind (deaf?) on the strength of only an instrument review.

When I first started playing back in the 70s I bought International Musician to get my information and gear porn fix. It didn't matter what they reviewed everything was out of my price range whether it was a £30 Audition from Woolies or a £1000 Travis Bean which would have to be imported from the US. None of that bothered me. I just wanted to find out what was out there so I could dream.

When I finally bought my first bass guitar, reviews had nothing to do with it. I bought the instrument that I liked the most that was in the shop at a price I could afford.

You're mistake is to think of musical instrument magazines as sources of hard information when in actual fact they are mostly about entertainment and porn for gear fetishists.
[/quote]
I agree with most of your points, but I personally would never buy a bass, or anything for that matter on the strength of a review alone, and I think that most people are the same.
Yes, most BC's are well informed, but when you are younger and not so knowledgeable, you tend to turn to reviews to see what the experts think about certain models, because even if you have tried something out in the shop and liked it, it can sometimes be reassuring that more knowledgeable musicians than yourself, also think that it is a worthwhile purchase.
I can remember many years ago, I bought a guitar that I thought was great in the shop, only to find that six months down the line, it started failing on me. Being a naive teenager at the time, I didn't know what to look out for in a guitar, but maybe if I had read an honest review pointing out the poor quality of the guitar in question, I might have steered clear of it, and made a better choice.
You are right again on magazines being about entertainment, but I just don't find BGM entertaining any more.

[dave_bass5]

I think with the advent of the internet everybody is a lot more informed these days, especially the kids who are growing up with all this info at their finger tips.

[Prime_BASS]

It's not really a case of what is being reviewed that bothers me, it's the fact that practically everything gets a pretty positive review.

I mainly buy it for the backpage stuff, the lessons and the like. I think the section on other bassists from not very well known bands is a pretty good section, gives coverage for quiet promising acts and opens up readers to new music.

[paul_5]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1336144369' post='1641630']
It's not really a case of what is being reviewed that bothers me, it's the fact that practically everything gets a pretty positive review.

I mainly buy it for the backpage stuff, the lessons and the like. I think the section on other bassists from not very well known bands is a pretty good section, gives coverage for quiet promising acts and opens up readers to new music.
[/quote]

All of this. I used to enjoy the technique stuff when there was a bit more variation (solo bass arrangements, more theory based stuff), but now I've outgrown the cycle of funk / learn to read music / triad shapes that seem to frequent bass magazines.

That's my fault though, [i]not[/i] BGMs.

[gary mac]

I feel the same really. Maybe it's an age thing, I know I found myself feeling the same about the angling mags that I had loved for years.

Why do they in BGM mark the expensive basses with a minus? Really gets me wound up. The price isn't the minus, the minus would be, if it wasn't worth the money or there was something wrong with the design/build.

BGM can't of course keep us all happy all of the time but not many of us seem to like the pages of interviews with the unknowns talking about whether they slap or not. pick or fingers etc.

And three 6 string reviews in one edition.

[dmccombe7]

I also feel that I'm starting to lose a little interest.
I think reviews with more prominent well known bassists who have gained experience over many yrs or many gigs would be a more interesting option. Many of the bassists I haven't heard of but that might be an age thing.
What about reviews with people that many will know like Neil Murray, Roger Glover, Glenn Hughes, Geezer Butler, Percy Jones, Richard Sinclair, Colin Bass, Mike Rutherford on Shergolds ? Far too many to list that could have far more interesting views, opinions and experiences than some of the younger relatively unknown bassists we see on BGM.
Maybe these guys don't do interviews now that they are too famous to talk to us. ?? Who knows.
With regards reading a mag for reviews on basses i do tend to do that. Its probably a starting point before seriously looking at a bass. If mag reviews show it as having qualities i might like then i would look at a little closer.

I think more mid-priced bass reviews would be far more interesting for far more people. I'm kinda guessing that circa £400-£600 range is probably most common range.

How about some gear comparisons incl amps.
What about a review on classic basses like Jazz, Precision, Riks or has that been done already and I've missed them.

Cheers
Dave

[yorks5stringer]

I understand that this edition was very much quickly put together to ensure the new owners had something out there ASAP. One hopes the new editor will have the promised resources to make the magazine more accessible to all ( whatever that means?).
I read Car Magazine and am as much interested in the new Fiat Panda as its more illustrious cousin, the Ferrari. To be fair to BGM, they have reviewed quite a lot of entry level stuff over the last few editions (Vintage etc) and I guess you can only review what the manufacturers send you (unless you are Which Magazine).
I don't know anything about the economics of running a magazine but I would have thought the adverts bring in more money than the cover price, given that they are sold on a sale or return basis to the big chains. Yes, there are subscribers like myself but that money all went to the last owners! So going back to adverts/review copy, do you go for the cheaper end of the market where stuff maybe does not need a good review to sell, or do you go for buyers who have a greater disposable income?
The elephant in the room is there too in digital so unless you have a pay to enter firewall, there are loads of free reviews out there too.

Edited May 7, 2012 by yorks5stringer

[urb]

In reply to the OP question 'is that it?' - I dropped Joel McIver a line to alert him to this thread and to the myriad other dicussions on the state of BGM past and present. Firstly he's keen to hear from anyone who has any issues of suggestions about the magazine and would actually like to hear from you guys - so please send compliments, constructive criticisms and suggestions to [email="[email protected]"][email protected][/email].

Joel has a long and pretty distinguished career as an author and music journalist - he's written 20 books for starters - and while I can't possibly comment on the previous era of BGM prior to its new owners/publishers taking over - my belief is that Joel in conjuction with supportive new publishers will really make BGM a much more credible and more readable and interesting magazine. Obviously the proof will be in the pudding but I say give it a chance...

Hope that helps guys

Mike

[discreet]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1336140226' post='1641541']
TBH I don't think that people who spend a lot of time on Basschat are BGM's target audience. We're too well informed.
[/quote]

This. I'm always left feeling a bit short-changed... no article really gets down to any sort of interesting or informative detail... in that, BGM's a lot like TV, really - all show and no substance.

[quote name='urb' timestamp='1336158009' post='1642000']
...Joel in conjuction with supportive new publishers will really make BGM a much more credible and more readable and interesting magazine. Obviously the proof will be in the pudding but I say give it a chance...[/quote]

Fair enough... I would say that time spent on BC would be well worth it. Easy to see on here what bass players are really into and what they find entertaining...

Edited May 4, 2012 by discreet

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1336158255' post='1642005']
Easy to see on here what bass players are really into and what they find entertaining... [/quote]

Lynching the occasional scammer always goes down well.

That said, there have been some interesting points made about gear reviews. There has always been a suspicion that things are not always as they should be in the world of specialist magazines. The guy who currently edits Guitarist remarked that if a piece of gear wasn't 'up to standard', they'd pull the review and let the mfr know what they thought was bad about the product.

Better that, perhaps, than Guitar Player (USA) which once announced that all future reviews would be warts'n'all. A succession of damning reviews ensued, mfrs pulled their ads, there was a wailing and a gnashing of teeth and GP ran up the white flag. IIRC, they used to include a 'Maker's Response' box-out, where the mfr could address some of the criticisms.

Fact is, one hand washes the other. Few of us have ever seen an uncomplimentary review and I don't think that's ever going to change. If one reads between the lines, there are usually a few clues.

[E sharp]

I'm still going to buy it . I agee with most on here that the internet has diminished it's appeal , but I like a physical magazine - especially for the bog .

I hope the new publishing organisation works out ; and there's one big plus - no more Swans in Flight ads

[Gust0o]

It must be off-putting to younger players, perhaps; but what would be the shelf-life of a magazine focused upon the lower-end of the market?

[i]In this month's edition: the same Ibanez 001 we reviewed last month, but in another colour.[/i]

The editor's pick? [i]Is this bass good for metal[/i]? [i]Finding your metal axe for less than £200.[/i]

I think I prefer the balance - and it's tacit acceptance that the paying, bass-playing public, is made up in large measure of your 'grumpy old men'

The major challenge to it's existence is the presence of sites like this,and other stores of information. We might claim we don't buy the mag as we're already well-informed... but we get that from somewhere

Edited May 4, 2012 by Gust0o

[discreet]

[quote name='E sharp' timestamp='1336163731' post='1642094']
...I like a physical magazine - especially for the bog.
[/quote]

Me too.

[Bassman Sam]

[quote name='E sharp' timestamp='1336163731' post='1642094']
I'm still going to buy it . I agee with most on here that the internet has diminished it's appeal , but I like a physical magazine - especially for the bog .
[/quote]

Yeah, you can't wipe yourself with an iPad.

[Gust0o]

[quote name='Bassman Sam' timestamp='1336177032' post='1642281']
Yeah, you can't wipe yourself with an iPad.
[/quote]

It does raise havoc with the "slide to unlock" feature, I must admit.

[daz]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1336144369' post='1641630']
It's not really a case of what is being reviewed that bothers me, it's the fact that practically everything gets a pretty positive review.

I mainly buy it for the backpage stuff, the lessons and the like. I think the section on other bassists from not very well known bands is a pretty good section, gives coverage for quiet promising acts and opens up readers to new music.
[/quote]

I know. Its as if there are no poor basses in the entire world!

And as for those [i]bass academy [/i]members that nobody has heard of. WHO CARES!!! STOP putting them in the bloody magazine.

These days I always flick through it in WHSmiths to see if its worth spending best part of a fiver on. It usually isn't I'm very sorry to say. Although some of the tutorials are often informative. Especially Dave Marks (is he still in it ?)

Edited May 5, 2012 by daz

[heminder]

this is what i've found with music magazines (or most magazines in general).

they are fantastic for new players for gaining insight in the bass world, or guitar world, or whatever the magazine's topic is. but after that, they just become more of the same and their value to the reader goes down.

when i first picked up the bass, i picked up a copy of BGM with the intention of getting myself familiar with bass and it certainly did. would i buy a subscription or pick it up regularly? no. i don't see how that's useful.

as for reviews of expensive things - this is consumerism we live in. they have to promote that stuff so the masses will lust after it and keep the wheel turning.

Edited May 5, 2012 by heminder

[BigRedX]

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1336143703' post='1641618']
Yes, most BC's are well informed, but when you are younger and not so knowledgeable, you tend to turn to reviews to see what the experts think about certain models, because even if you have tried something out in the shop and liked it, it can sometimes be reassuring that more knowledgeable musicians than yourself, also think that it is a worthwhile purchase.
You are right again on magazines being about entertainment, but I just don't find BGM entertaining any more.
[/quote]

It's a long long time ago when I was younger but IIRC I was only not so knowledgeable for a very short time. Certainly after a year of owning my first guitar, hanging around in my local music shop and reading International musician I was able to do all the things I needed to my guitar myself.

And these days the only excuse younger people have for not been equally as knowledgeable with all the extra sources of information at their fingertips is extreme stupidity or laziness. Personally I think that you learn more if you make some mistakes first rather than having the "correct" answers spoon fed to you. A bit of hands on experience and finding out what does and doesn't work (for you) allows you to learn why as well as how.