Lending Gear at gigs

[velvetkevorkian]

I've lent my amp on a number of occasions (to death metal bands mainly!), and used other people's amps on numerous others. As long as its by prior arrangement I don't see the problem. Obviously I keep an eye on it and if they make any special requests (don't touch EQ etc.) you abide by that. That said, if you don't want to lend yours then that's your prerogative.

[Mog]

Well.......ok, the other bands may be new and might not have gig standard gear. They may have to travel a distance without the room for gear.....there's many reasons why they wouldn't have an amp. If they're kids they aint gonna have the cash to spend on a rig. Why do you think Peavey combos and the like are so popular. I started out in a pubrock band using a Torque 100 watt combo. Not good. Any time someone offered they're rig I jumped at the chance. As long as people take the time to understand how my head works and run it without overloading I always lend mine at gigs. If they just nod and smile as I explain things without taking anything on board, then proceed to push my gear during soundcheck, I get the sound tech to run them 100% DI and switch off my gear. My only no no is booze on my rig. That will get you in serious trouble. The last guy who did it got a discreet word at the side of the stage, after he flipped the finger, I tipped my pint on his ME 50. He got the point after that.

[urbanx]

I should have probably also mentioned we haven't even been told who the other bands are yet. (I'm currenttly trying to find this out to point them in the direction of gear hire).

[Dubs]

It's better to be asked in advance than be put in an awkward position on the night. I generally still say "no sorry, I won't lend it out to anyone" regardless of being asked in advance or not. It really f***s me off when you arrive at a venue and the promoter puts you in a position whereby it's pretty clear that if you don't lend your gear out then the other bands won't be able to play, and then somehow you're the dickhead when you say no...

[chris_b]

[quote name='Mog' post='859899' date='Jun 7 2010, 02:22 PM']....the other bands may be new and might not have gig standard gear. They may have to travel a distance without the room for gear.....there's many reasons why they wouldn't have an amp. If they're kids they aint gonna have the cash to spend on a rig....[/quote]
These are all reasons why these guys should not be gigging in the first place! The promoter should be professional enough to hire in a backline, not expect someone who owns the right equipment to do his job for him!

I played with a drummer on Saturday who lent his kit out to an acquaintance and got it back with 2 damaged skins!

The answer should always be NO.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Mog' post='859899' date='Jun 7 2010, 02:22 PM']Well.......ok, the other bands may be new and might not have gig standard gear. They may have to travel a distance without the room for gear.....there's many reasons why they wouldn't have an amp. If they're kids they aint gonna have the cash to spend on a rig. Why do you think Peavey combos and the like are so popular. I started out in a pubrock band using a Torque 100 watt combo. Not good. Any time someone offered they're rig I jumped at the chance. As long as people take the time to understand how my head works and run it without overloading I always lend mine at gigs. If they just nod and smile as I explain things without taking anything on board, then proceed to push my gear during soundcheck, I get the sound tech to run them 100% DI and switch off my gear. My only no no is booze on my rig. That will get you in serious trouble. The last guy who did it got a discreet word at the side of the stage, after he flipped the finger, I tipped my pint on his ME 50. He got the point after that.[/quote]


I have no problem with jimmy playing his first gig asking to use my gear and me saying yes. He's probably a good guy. We may see him on basschat in a few months.
What I would object to is promoters using me to suplly the backline to other random bands. Jimmy and I can have a chat, and I know he will look after my gear, random bass players probably will not.

I like the story about pouring pints

[3V17C]

to the OP - don't do it! you're clearly not comfortable with it, you've been burned before so i think thats fair enough. Like others have said, how can you be in a band and not have amps or transport of some kind?! (Obviously sharing a rig would save change over times etc, but honestly.. how long does it take really?!)

I don't let people use my rig these days as a rule BUT i've got a handful of dates supporting an American band who are touring over here and they aren't bringing any amps with them so want to use ours (fair enough in this instance to save on their tour/travel expenses). I'm reasonably OK with that as they're all mature musicians who (i'd hope!) respect gear and know how it works. My guitarist/bandleader is bringing a spare bass head along too just in case so if I don't like how they're using mine they can go with that instead.



peace

C

[eightball]

dude, i f you want to use your own rig, you should. i've played a million of these gigs with 3/4 other bands, and always bring my own rig (previously Ampeg 810, now 2 swr goliath II's).

i have no problem whatsoever telling folk they can't use it.

the best reason i ever heard why i should let 3 other bands use my rig was 'if everyone brings their own gear there will be arguments over who wants to use what'. funnily enough in 15 years of gigging i've yet to have that discussion...

make it clear you're bringing YOUR rig, and no-one else is using it. I emphasise; make this absolutely transparent.

Offer your cabs - no-one else will bring a head anyway...

if they all turn up with their own rigs, then i'm sure everyone will have no problem with tagging together a bass super-rig!

[Zombywoof]

I don't have a problem lending my gear, I did it on Saturday night, life's too short, I remember what it's like to be struggling with no gear, I couldn't afford to replace mine if it got w***ed so maybe I need to revise this attitude.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Zombywoof

[thodrik]

I allow people to use my cabs all of the time. When working with bands that are serious about their gear or bands that have to travel a fair bit I feel that this is worth it as if another band does this for me in return in the future then great.

I also no have a back up Trace Elliot head I bought second hand that I let people use if they just don't bring anything. I don't like having to provide an amp for anyone, but its better than letting people use my EBS head.

I've found from experience that bassists are usually the most likely to be the guy in the band that has no gear!

If I'm doing a gig when I'm using a combo I'll only let people use it if I know or trust them, or if there is a genuine backline share going on (like another band is bringing a guitar amp, drum kit etc). If a band contacts us on the day of the gig asking to use everything, we just say no.

[leftybassman392]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzGSEgRgkSU"]Dave Marks[/url]

[ahpook]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='859888' date='Jun 7 2010, 02:17 PM']I've lent my amp on a number of occasions (to death metal bands mainly!), and used other people's amps on numerous others. As long as its by prior arrangement I don't see the problem. Obviously I keep an eye on it and if they make any special requests (don't touch EQ etc.) you abide by that. That said, if you don't want to lend yours then that's your prerogative.[/quote]

plus the one

most venues i play are so small that everyone bringing their own equipment isn't feasible...i've no problem with some sensible sharing...and in my experience everyone is very much aware that favours are being given and is careful of everyone's equipment.

ymmv

[dangerboy]

I ALWAYS lend my amp out if I bring it.

Mainly because I play the same kind of gigs as ahpook. I even used his amp once. Lovely loud thing.

[OldGit]

Not a ta gig but a few years ago a mature, professional-level long term gigging bassist I know called in a panic for a loan after his bass amp blew up. I lent him the expensive combo I had at the time.
Next morning he turned up with it after walking it back from town at 3 am after the gig, p1553d as a f4rt. All the bottom was ripped up where he'd hoiked it over kerbs ...

He hardly even said thanks.

Oddly enough since then I've never had anything else available when he's needed to borrow stuff.

I subsequently bought an ancient Peavey 300 1x15 combo specifically to lend out and for others to use at jams.

[Musicman20]

Just let them all DI....and dont worry about it. Its not your fault they havent got a rig.

[Dave Vader]

Mate of mine back in Bideford has to lend his Bass amp to Norman Watt-Roy every time they support Wilco Johnson, I'll be honest, he's quite chuffed about it.

I recognise the OP is in a totally different situation though. As the guy who blew up a million amps, I must point out I always payed for all the damage I did, which is why my own gear is always crap. And I only blew up guitar amps, and I think they were all Marshalls, which deserved it as well. Had some of my own gear blown up, and that didn't get paid for, along with the millions of leads and straps that got walked off with while I wasn't watching.
Glad I do the cover scene now, no 5 band nights where everything gets broken and stolen. And the moneys better.

[Mog]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='859923' date='Jun 7 2010, 02:37 PM']What I would object to is promoters using me to suplly the backline to other random bands.

I like the story about pouring pints[/quote]
I totally agree with that, but I've never experienced it. 99% of the promoters I've come across in the last 3 years have never asked us to supply backline. I've also never had a support band turn up at a gig without having asked what they need to bring along a few days before.
The multi fx thing was probably a bit OTT on my behalf. Calm to crazy in 0.4 seconds. Think he got the better deal though, I replaced it with a ME 50B.

@ Chris_b
[i]These are all reasons why these guys should not be gigging in the first place! The promoter should be professional enough to hire in a backline, not expect someone who owns the right equipment to do his job for him![/i]
Thats just plain wrong. Everyone has to start somewhere. Promoters/club owners rarely provide backline. A professional rig is just way too expensive for the majority of establishments. As I said, I've never had anyone book us for a gig without telling us who we would be sharing the bill with and what gear they had and if they had asked if a kit/amp was provided. IME most venues try to find out who's using what so the sound tech can organise changeover etc. The bands (including my own who are situated an hour away) that play in our local club have offered to play free gigs for 6 months to raise funds for a house backline but as the extra cost of insurance for the gear would increase the overheads too much the owner declined.

[i]I played with a drummer on Saturday who lent his kit out to an acquaintance and got it back with 2 damaged skins![/i]
Seriously. Skins get damaged the second you start playing them. Regardless of who's playing. Our drummer always says "go to town on em, skins are easy to replace" to whoever is using his kit. €20 is not going to break the bank if you need to replace 2 tom heads.

I can understand why people are sensitive about their gear but a little understanding goes a long way.

[gafbass02]

Funnily enough it's my cabs I'm most precious over as they are most likely to be fried/blown/overdriven whatever more so than the head. Esp if someone is clumsily walloping a bass (usually a p bass) right over the polepieces. On the odd occasion where I reckon the other guy isn't a numpty and won't take the p155 and I cave in I ALWAYS make em use a compressor infront which is something I carry for just such emergencies.

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='Mog' post='860037' date='Jun 7 2010, 04:14 PM']@ Chris_b
[i]These are all reasons why these guys should not be gigging in the first place! The promoter should be professional enough to hire in a backline, not expect someone who owns the right equipment to do his job for him![/i]
Thats just plain wrong. Everyone has to start somewhere. Promoters/club owners rarely provide backline. A professional rig is just way too expensive for the majority of establishments. As I said, I've never had anyone book us for a gig without telling us who we would be sharing the bill with and what gear they had and if they had asked if a kit/amp was provided. IME most venues try to find out who's using what so the sound tech can organise changeover etc. The bands (including my own who are situated an hour away) that play in our local club have offered to play free gigs for 6 months to raise funds for a house backline but as the extra cost of insurance for the gear would increase the overheads too much the owner declined.



I can understand why people are sensitive about their gear but a little understanding goes a long way.[/quote]
Agree 100%. There are numerous reasons why a band may not have all the gear they might want, or may not be able to bring it, and its incredibly elitist IMO to suggest that they should all stay in their bedrooms until they can get both a gig-worthy amp and a car to put it in. If you don't want to lend your kit, that's fine, and that's your prerogative, but sweeping assumptions like that are frankly insulting.

[Rayman]

I won't lend anything, ever, period.

But then I am a miserable old tw*t.

Does that help at all?

[Ian Savage]

I've never had a problem lending cabs out (Peavey Black Widows, back when I was gigging - bulletproof!), purely to save the faff of humping cabs on and off stage between bands often on tight stages and through busy rooms/up and down stairs.
Always tried to avoid lending my head out though, as it had a few 'foibles' and needed a compressor running into it at all times to avoid tripping the protection circuitry (and many muppets who I DID lend it to nodded along as I explained to them where to plug in and how to turn the compressor on, then tripped the protection circuit in the first song when they disregarded everything and just plugged straight into the front; I often went for a smoke at this stage ).

To the OP, the promotor is taking the piss big-style by expecting you to provide pretty much EVERYTHING to put the gig on - a 'gentlemans' agreement' between musicians before a gig to save bringing gear that won't be needed is one thing, but this gig sounds like amateur night straight away.

[flyfisher]

Seems easy to me.

You either lend out your gear with good grace until the inevitable night when someone breaks it then denies it, you have a big row about it, end up with simmering bad feelings and have to pay to repair/replace it out of your own pocket and become forever paranoid about anyone even standing close to your gear . . . .

. . . or you just say no and avoid all the worry and eventually inevitable hassle.

I suppose there's a third way in which you have loads of spare cash and just don't care about replacing broken/abused gear.


Personally, I'd hate to borrow a rig in case it genuinely broke while I was using it.

[chris_b]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='860048' date='Jun 7 2010, 04:27 PM']....There are numerous reasons why a band may not have all the gear they might want, or may not be able to bring it, and its incredibly elitist IMO to suggest that they should all stay in their bedrooms until they can get both a gig-worthy amp and a car to put it in. If you don't want to lend your kit, that's fine, and that's your prerogative, but sweeping assumptions like that are frankly insulting....[/quote]
Elitist? Insulting? Ha ha ha ha

[Sarah5string]

One option would be to get insurance which would cover you for accidental damage...

[fingerz]

A lot of the time, venues don't want to hire a back line (this can be v cheap) but want to put on a night with loads of bands with quick turn around between acts. I've done gigs in the past where as a headline act you are 'Expected' to set up your gear and let others use it. No phone call prior to gig (prob cos they're scared of a 'No, you sort it' response) to make sure it's all clear.

I always hated lending my amp (that's just me), but more felt anger towards the venue for not offering to acknowledge any inconvenience (wear and tear, lifting/set up, potential damage, getting there first, leaving last) to the person who's amp is being used. You have basically, more than being generous, given them a service for the night and saved them money. So often they arrogantly ignore this like they are doing you a favor by letting you play.

A few dings, scratches and clipping amps later - I never lend my gear as a rule. And wouldn't expect someone to lend me theirs. I am pro now so it's kinda different - if something happened to my amp I wouldn't eat!! But there's something fundamentally wrong about venues blagging back lines off bands.


You shouldn't hate on the other bands sharing the night tho. It's the venues who are generally slack and arrogant. If we made them think more, we could all turn up and use their gear for this sort of gig where loads of acts are playing.

Happy days