gibson raided

[Stu-khag]

oh dear... if its true, tis a very sorry state of affairs-
apologies if its been posted before.
[url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/nov/20/gibson-guitars-raided"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/nov/2...-guitars-raided[/url]

does make you think though, how many of our basses have been made using ethically sourced materials and is this ever a consideration when you buy a new bass?

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Stu-khag' post='663045' date='Nov 23 2009, 07:09 PM']oh dear... if its true, tis a very sorry state of affairs-
apologies if its been posted before.
[url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/nov/20/gibson-guitars-raided"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/nov/2...-guitars-raided[/url]

does make you think though, how many of our basses have been made using ethically sourced materials and is this ever a consideration when you buy a new bass?[/quote]


I'd like to say yes but absolutely no.

[phil_the_bassist]

I'd also like to think that I'd think about the ethics behind my bass, but to be perfectly honest, it really doesn't cross my mind...and considering some of the exotic woods found in my (and many, many others) collections, I doubt if many people check for certificates to make sure the cocobolo/wenge/zebrawood/mahogany/wtf are sourced for sustainable, ethical forests!

A damn shame I know, but I doubt it's gonna stop any time soon

[neilb]

They seized some guitars....purely as part of the investigation I'm sure!!!

[hillbilly deluxe]

I personally do'nt.If you thought too much about where and how things were made,and were really bothered about it,you wouldnt buy anything,that goes not just for musical instruments,but most foreign,especially far eastern produced goods,T.V/fridge/clothes/food etc etc.

[harvey1-8]

If the wood actually did come from Madagascar, and if the wood came through the Suez Canal, then surely this a something that Somali Pirates have overlooked, considering the price of Rosewood.

[Beedster]

[quote name='Stu-khag' post='663045' date='Nov 23 2009, 07:09 PM']does make you think though, how many of our basses have been made using ethically sourced materials and is this ever a consideration when you buy a new bass?[/quote]

What's termed 'ethically sourced' today will be termed 'unethically sourced' tomorrow, that's the way a world of limited resources and unlimited demand will be.

Rightly or wrongly I have strong views about animals but wouldn't be overly worried about woods.

C

[SS73]

[quote name='phil_the_bassist' post='663085' date='Nov 23 2009, 07:51 PM']I'd also like to think that I'd think about the ethics behind my bass, but to be perfectly honest, it really doesn't cross my mind...and considering some of the exotic woods found in my (and many, many others) collections, I doubt if many people check for certificates to make sure the cocobolo/wenge/zebrawood/mahogany/wtf are sourced for sustainable, ethical forests!

A damn shame I know, but I doubt it's gonna stop any time soon [/quote]

I did initially think of the custom makers with their extra exotic and rare named woods, but the consumption turnover of all these makers can't even come close to Gibson and Fender, its got to be massive volumes for them, not to mention MIM, CIJ and Epiphone.

[Cat Burrito]

I heard this the other day. Incredible story

[RhysP]

Gibson also polish all their guitars with panda skins, the bastards.





(BTW-This isn't actually true).

[ashevans09]

[quote name='phil_the_bassist' post='663085' date='Nov 23 2009, 07:51 PM']I'd also like to think that I'd think about the ethics behind my bass, but to be perfectly honest, it really doesn't cross my mind...and considering some of the exotic woods found in my (and many, many others) collections, I doubt if many people check for certificates to make sure the cocobolo/wenge/zebrawood/mahogany/wtf are sourced for sustainable, ethical forests!

A damn shame I know, but I doubt it's gonna stop any time soon [/quote]

Hmm fair point actually. IIRC Mike Tobias makes sure all of his wood is sourced from sustainable sources so I think I'm covered there, but as for the rest... . It does make me a bit uncomfortable that some luthiers use purpleheart, I've heard this is in serious trouble (I have absolutely no source for that)...

[xgsjx]

[quote name='RhysP' post='663207' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:38 PM']Gibson also polish all their guitars with panda skins, the bastards. [/quote]

But the pandas do have good working conditions and are well paid, as opposed to most immigrants!

I agree with Beedster, I have a strong view on animal welfare & try to only eat locally sourced organic meat & dairy products & try hard to avoid getting anything where there may have been any animals being mistreated. After seeing what KFC do, I would never go their again. If you can stomach it, search Kentucky Fried Cruelty on youtube.

[Earbrass]

[quote name='Beedster' post='663165' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:03 PM']Rightly or wrongly I have strong views about animals but wouldn't be overly worried about woods.

C[/quote]

But that makes no sense; one of the main causes of extinctions is habitat loss - cut the forests and you kill the animals. And one one shouldn't be too impressed by claims that tropical woods are "sustainably" sourced, since there is massive fraud in the timber trade, with illegally logged wood being given false documentation to make it look kosher.

Edited November 25, 2009 by Earbrass

[Low End Bee]

I'm such an eco warrior that my first thought when opening the link was "that forearm guard thingy really looks poo on that ES295"

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='RhysP' post='663207' date='Nov 23 2009, 09:38 PM']Gibson also polish all their guitars with panda skins, the bastards.





(BTW-This isn't actually true).[/quote]
To be fair at least they are efficient, in that said skins' former contents are used in the canteen.... panda burger anyone... fricasee....ok how about panda curry?




(this is also completely untrue)

Edited November 24, 2009 by jakesbass

[NickH]

To quote the fantastic Fight Club - "I wanted to put a bullet in the brain of every panda that wouldn't f^ck to save it's species"

[chris_b]

I wasn't very comfortable with Aguilar's GS range boasting "seven ply void-free Philippine mahogany construction", when you see how the tropical forest and dependent wild life is being decimated in SE Asia!

[WHUFC BASS]

Thats why we should be using Traben Basses made from Royal Paulownia

[url="http://www.paulowniasupply.com/index.htm"]http://www.paulowniasupply.com/index.htm[/url]

Grows up to 30ft in 3 years, easily sustainable and you know what, it sounds half decent too. Cross between basswood and ash.

[b]"Paulownia Trees are drought resistant once established. Their roots tend to go deep into the ground in search of water, rather than on the surface. This makes planting around the tree easy and makes it friendlier to nearby walkways or fixtures.

Unlike some fast growth trees that have short life spans, a healthy Empress Tree can live for 80 to 100 years."[/b]

Edited November 24, 2009 by WHUFC BASS

[skankdelvar]

They should make basses out of Leylandii. Starting with my neighbour's colossal excrescences.

Thing is, if the wood consumers implemented a long-term policy of planting and harvesting exotic woods, we wouldn't have this problem. There'd be so many Purplewood trees they wouldn't be exotic anymore. But these lads are in it for the short term, so that's never going to happen.

Oh, and aren't the Philllllippppines in the Pacific? Is that SE Asia? I do not know, but I think we should be told.

[stingrayfan]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='663733' date='Nov 24 2009, 01:55 PM']They should make basses out of Leylandii.[/quote]
It would be the bass that keeps on growing.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='stingrayfan' post='663859' date='Nov 24 2009, 03:34 PM']It would be the bass that keeps on growing. [/quote]
Buy a 4 stringer & in a year you have a 7 stringer? Progresses with you.

[Kiwi]

I've been told by a luthier I know here in NZ that a famous acoustic guitar maker is less discriminate about where some of their wood comes from because they simply can't get enough of it to meet demand when sourced through official channels.

[Mikey R]

[quote name='ashevans09' post='663408' date='Nov 24 2009, 03:20 AM']Hmm fair point actually. IIRC Mike Tobias makes sure all of his wood is sourced from sustainable sources so I think I'm covered there, but as for the rest... . It does make me a bit uncomfortable that some luthiers use purpleheart, I've heard this is in serious trouble (I have absolutely no source for that)...[/quote]

Part of the problem is that there is so much misinformation out there regarding endangered species.

You can search the CITIES endangered list here:

[url="http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/species.html"]http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/species.html[/url]

Also, google the "Greenpeace Good Wood Guide" - its a bit out of date now but worth a read.

[quote name='Earbrass' post='663470' date='Nov 24 2009, 09:13 AM']But that makes no sense; one of the main causes of extinctions is habitat loss - cut the forests and you kill the animals. And one one shouldn't be too impressed by claims that tropical woods are "sustainably" sourced, since there is massive fraud in the timber trade, with illegally logged wood being given false documentation to make it look kosher.[/quote]

The problem is incredibly complex. If afluent countries such as ours do not import timber at decent prices, then the rain forrests will be worth more cash cut down and crops or cattle raised instead.

The only way the FSC will eventually really work is if it is supported by the consumers at the far end of the chain, thats us guys.

As it is at the moment, the incredibly vast majority of deforistation is as a result of clearing the land for farming. I'll see if I can find a reference for that.

EDIT: also, while Ive got my tree hugging hippy hat on, I'd just like to say that timber is still the most eco friendly building material out there. No other material actually locks away atmospheric carbon for the life of the product. As guitars last for years, they are incredibly good for the environment.

EDIT AGAIN: Our good friend Erik Bojerik on Talkbass did the calculations: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=557792"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=557792[/url]

He calculated that of the total amount of trees cut down world wide, [b]only 0.66%[/b] gets processed into timber.

Edited November 25, 2009 by Mikey R

[Lfalex v1.1]

Rob Green has Carbon Sequestration down to a fine art;


As far as I know, no trees died to make this bass

[Kongo]

Sorry but this is just too funny...How would they even get wind of Gibson using illegal wood?
A copper bought an SG and though...hey! This wood looks like it hasn't been paid for...

LOL!!! Someone has TOO much spare time! But it IS a funny story...seized guitars to check for smuggled wood...HOW WOULD YOU KNOW!?
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!