PMT - physical shops going downhill?

[Misdee]

I'm sure the reasons for PMT's demise are complex, but I think one reason why some retailers are struggle is that they lose sight of the basics, i.e stocking products that people are keen to buy. If you've got goods that punters are enthusiastic about, that's more than half the battle.

 

The stuff on the walls at these big retailers is tat at various price points. Needless to say, the bass stuff is usually even more depressing and threadbare than the guitars. The  retailers have done "deals" with their suppliers, but in doing so throw the baby out with the bathwater because their stock ends up being not what potential customers are really after.

 

Whether you're a retailer or a private individual selling from an advert on a forum like Basschat, if you've got something that people really want, someone will buy it. I've never had a problem selling a bass because I always buy really nice ones, regardless on whether they are expensive or more affordable models. If you have to convince people why they aught to want what you are selling then it's always going to be an uphill slog. Conversely, if you've got enticing goods to sell there will always be someone who comes forward with the money to buy them.

[BigRedX]

The problem, as I'm sure I have said before, is that the frequent posters here on Basschat are not really the sorts of people who are interested what the typical bricks and mortar music shops have to offer. I for one don't except any of them to stock what I need any more even when it comes to picks and strings. Also I don't believe that you can make a properly informed decision about an instrument or amp from trying it in a shop. The last time I did that I ended up selling the bass less than 6 months later because it just didn't work in the band setting it had been bought for.

[bass_dinger]

Even though PMT (and other big chains) have sadly shut down, music shops still seem to be viable in the UK. We have....

 

The specialists who sell just one type of instrument: eg The Gallery, selling nothing but basses and bass gear.

Add to the list of specialists Just Flutes in Croydon, T A Craig (a violin shop in Sevenoaks), Laurence Dixon for Double bass,  sax.co.uk 

 

The quirky: Hobgoblin, for folk instruments.  Richards Guitars for high-end acoustic guitars and mandolins, with each instrument set up before it leaves the store.

 

The traditional shops which provide excellent service: people here often commend single-store music shops, and which have built a good reputation. So, Rich Tone Music in Sheffield,  and Rock Bottom in Croydon.  As @SumOne describes them, such shops are "a go-to hub for musicians ".

 

 

When I go shopping for an instrument, I want a seller who knows more about the item than I do - not someone who got a discount because they bought 20 boxes of guitars, and needs to shift them quickly. 

[diskwave]

The demise of the instrument store. I just think the traditional band, "electric guitar thing" in the main, is over. It only ever started because of the blues and R&R. The very two genres which in the minds of young people today are pretty much obsolete.

I popped into PMT two years ago and it just seemed full of active pa and DJ kit,  barely a guitar or bass in sight. Light years away from the, 'ye olde guitar shop' on the corner stuffed with 100 watt tweed front Marshalls, slinky Hiwatts and Orange bass bins etc. Sad really, online just isn't quite the same.

[visog]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

The problem, as I'm sure I have said before, is that the frequent posters here on Basschat are not really the sorts of people who are interested what the typical bricks and mortar music shops have to offer. 

 

Respectfully disagree. Perhaps smaller 'Mom & Pops' stores' stock might not appeal but PMT had store/warehouses covering a broad range for beginners right through to professionals. I'm in the middle of that spectrum and sourced my great Ibby EHB-6 through PMT Leeds. Bought a ton of stuff in PMT Manchester through the years too.

[Minininjarob]

6 hours ago, diskwave said:

The demise of the instrument store. I just think the traditional band, "electric guitar thing" in the main, is over. It only ever started because of the blues and R&R. The very two genres which in the minds of young people today are pretty much obsolete.

I popped into PMT two years ago and it just seemed full of active pa and DJ kit,  barely a guitar or bass in sight. Light years away from the, 'ye olde guitar shop' on the corner stuffed with 100 watt tweed front Marshalls, slinky Hiwatts and Orange bass bins etc. Sad really, online just isn't quite the same.

Well the PMT I went into on Monday had a massive selection of guitars and amps and pedals, more than most other shops. Drum kits. Lots of keyboards/synths and basses too. Also a good range of PA and mixing stuff too. Never seen any Dj stuff in there. 

[tauzero]

11 hours ago, Bass Direct said:

Thats the direction we are headed, or at least slowly trying to get there

 

I was also going to suggest having an own brand budget line, like Thomann and Harley Benton or G4M and their own brand, which might have worked for PMT but probably isn't best suited to @Bass Direct 😁

[tauzero]

9 hours ago, BigRedX said:

The problem, as I'm sure I have said before, is that the frequent posters here on Basschat are not really the sorts of people who are interested what the typical bricks and mortar music shops have to offer.

 

I don't know about that, there are plenty on here with a Fender obsession.

[MichaelDean]

5 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

I was also going to suggest having an own brand budget line, like Thomann and Harley Benton or G4M and their own brand, which might have worked for PMT but probably isn't best suited to @Bass Direct 😁

PMT did have their own "Antiquity" brand. I played one and it seemed like a really decent instrument, especially for the money. They just never got much of an internet buzz around them. 

[prowla]

 

[SumOne]

18 hours ago, Bass Direct said:

Thats the direction we are headed, or at least slowly trying to get there

 

Bass Direct ticks a lot of boxes for me: Fair part excahnge prices, great selection of basses to try out in a friendly place, and it is often only shop in the UK to get certain basses. 

[Rich]

We have a tiny music store in town, from what I can gather it relies on its (extremely good and busy) upstairs music school to survive. And I'm glad it does. All I ever buy from there is picks, as I don't need any budget basses and they don't carry my preferred strings. But it's nice to know it's there. 

[BigRedX]

15 hours ago, visog said:

Respectfully disagree. Perhaps smaller 'Mom & Pops' stores' stock might not appeal but PMT had store/warehouses covering a broad range for beginners right through to professionals. I'm in the middle of that spectrum and sourced my great Ibby EHB-6 through PMT Leeds. Bought a ton of stuff in PMT Manchester through the years too.

 

 Up until earlier this week we had a massive PMT store here in Nottingham. Lots of guitars and not nearly so many basses but all very mainstream and nothing quirky second-hand. It's been over 30 years since I was last interested in a mainstream guitars or basses. I'll stick with well-known manufacturers for high-tech products mostly because I want decent support should anything go wrong. I bought my Helix from PMT (pre-COVID) mostly because they were one of the few resellers that had one in stock when I wanted to buy it. However when I was looking for a MIDI controller keyboard a couple of years ago they were exceedingly unhelpful (as mentioned earlier in this thread).

[Bass Direct]

18 minutes ago, SumOne said:

 

Bass Direct ticks a lot of boxes for me: Fair part excahnge prices, great selection of basses to try out in a friendly place, and it is often only shop in the UK to get certain basses. 

We always try our best, so thank you

[BigRedX]

7 hours ago, tauzero said:

I don't know about that, there are plenty on here with a Fender obsession.

 

If I had a Fender obsession I'd want to buy from a store that had at least 10 examples of the supposedly identical bass (or guitar) I was interested in so I could try them all and select the one that suited me the best.

[Woodinblack]

In the bristol one, pre-move, the bass guy was pretty helpful, although they didn't really have anything other than the Ibanez like I already had, a large number of fenders I wasn't interested in and the occasional rickenbacker at rickenbacker prices. They had a lot of guitars.

I bought serveral things from them, I got my ME90B from them as it was available and accessible, several leads, strings, microphone stand, etc.

They failed to sell me an Argon8 that I wanted and they had because I couldn't get to try it due to a lack of interest on their part, and a Yamaha DX which they had but didn't have a price so I assumed it was more expensive.

Its a shame they have gone, but tbh, since they moved in bristol I have only visited once as its not somewhere I generally would be.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

15 hours ago, diskwave said:

 

I popped into PMT two years ago and it just seemed full of active pa and DJ kit,  barely a guitar or bass in sight. 

Which store was this?

[Obrienp]

I always found the staff at PMT Norwich very helpful and honest. Like others have said, they didn’t have a huge amount for experienced bassists: they mostly stocked instruments for teenagers starting their musical journey. It was slightly different for guitarists who were presented with a massive array of electrics (not so much acoustics) but a lot of that tended to be the same limited range of Fenders but in every colour under the sun. However, if you wanted to try something available from their online stock (very comprehensive) they would get it in for you very quickly and there was absolutely no pressure to buy.

 

I did note that the selection of stock changed significantly as a result of Covid. Before lockdown they had a whole room dedicated to acoustic guitars with a good selection of Martins, Taylor’s, etc. They also had a similar stock of basses but after lockdown, the acoustic section dwindled to just a few cheaper brands, ditto the basses. The electronic music section took over a lot of that space, complimented by PA gear: a lot of overpriced Bose gear, etc.

 

I feel very sorry for the staff who have lost their jobs. They were mostly local musicians who needed the work to support their musical endeavours. I doubt the one remaining (private) music store in town has the capacity to give them work.

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

If I had a Fender obsession I'd want to buy from a store that had at least 10 examples of the supposedly identical bass (or guitar) I was interested in so I could try them all and select the one that suited me the best.

 

That would be a problem for any music store, keeping 4000 Precisions and 6000 Jazzes in stock before they've even considered stocking Squiers too.

[tauzero]

I meant to also say that I intended to drop into the Birmingham PMT at some point - they moved to just inside the CAZ from just outside it, so as we didn't have a ULEZ compliant car I didn't, and after we finally got a compliant one I never got round to going there. They did have the occasional slightly interesting instrument in there, and in fact I bought my Crafter acoustic guitar from there.

[sbrag]

It's a shame but like others have said I've barely been to the Bristol store since they move to Temple Meads as its a pain to get to. I've bought a number of bits from them over the years and they were always helpful.

[cetera]

This has been partly brought on by the insistence of Fender/Gibson for stores to have entire walls of their product. Now, I like a good Fender as much as the next guy but I have no desire to see a wall of them so I never visit. Shops with a wide choice of brands, a good used section etc will always win out for me...... be they specialist stores with a wide range like Bass Direct, Gallery, BassBros etc or a more general music store with a decent range like RichTone or Andertons.

[12stringbassist]

The walls of Gibson and Fenders with no price tags (for legitimate price shift reasons) were off-putting to a small degree.
Of course you have to have the stuff in to sell it, but then again the store has to pay for it to stock it. The major companies insistence on stores stocking whole ranges in the past has led to stores dropping the make.

Going in to drool over and Elite / Deluxe megabucks P bass is all very well, but the shop had to shift them, otherwise it was just all debt and dusting. The 'starter range' gear is useful to a limited number of people and as some say, it's seemingly a decreasing market. There was so much stock that never shifted.

The rise of online shopping is disappointing because there's nothing better than trying stuff then buying it.
The loss of PMT means Manchester doesn't have a lot of options left for buyers.

[la bam]

For me it's not the sites for new gear that have killed them off. It's the massive saturated market for second hand gear. Right on your doorstep. 

You can literally get anything you want for a fraction of the price, and if you can't, it's only a short wait and/or travel until you do. 

[SimonK]

Yes I visited PMT in Portsmouth for years and it just got more and more disappointing until it died a rather predictable death. Even a visit to Andertons is not quite as exciting as it used to be mainly because if I want to buy something I normally source it second hand, and while the boutique section is fun to have a gander at I don't think I would ever spontaneously buy something that expensive (famous last words!).

 

I think the trick to bricks and mortar shops is to diversify. I like "Guitar and Beans" in Leiden, and as others have mentioned this is not the only coffee/music shop combination. My business plan would be to open a second hand musical instruments plus coffee (not second-hand!) shop, probably aiming to get 80% of the revenue off the coffee by making it a place for muso's to hang out, although it would probably need to be in a University town to be succesful. Having it big enough to run live nights and maybe have a small bar would probably be needed too.

 

Sadly there is simply too much available on line for a traditional retailer to survive selling new gear anymore.