Do I need a Multi-Effects Pedal Board?

[Linus27]

I'm pretty new to using pedals and have created a nice little pedal board containing my TC Electronics tuner, a Boss OC-5 Octave pedal (my main pedal), an Electro Harmonix Chorus, a Mooer Ambient pedal and soon to be added an EBS Triple Filter pedal. This is all used for my fretless basses to great effect. I'm wondering if something like a Line 6 Helix HX Stomp or TC Electronic Plethora multi-effects unit would serve me better. Is it better to have individual pedals and the quality and output is better with single pedals or are multi-effect pedal boards just as good and effective?

[MrDinsdale]

You might benefit from having a Stomp or similar, it'd cover what you have and a lot more too. Stuff like the HX Stomp and Boss GT1000core have fx loops so you can integrate analog pedals into your digital fx chain too so if you had individual pedals that you wanted to keep you could.

 

Most of the multifx units sound just as good as their real world analog counterparts, I don't think quality is really an issue. The biggest difference is going to be how you interact with a multifx unit vs the more tactile physical pedal approach, I know a lot of people opt to edit their patches via desktop editors etc rather than the on-device interface.

 

The HX Stomp seems to pop up for good prices 2nd hand a lot, wouldn't hurt to try it out!

[Newfoundfreedom]

If you're buying for the first time or experimenting with many different sounds, then for me a multi effects pedal is the way to go. 

 

If you're happy with the sounds you're getting from individual pedals then I wouldn't see the need to swap for a multi effects unit, which can often be very complicated to set up. 

 

A good compromise is the zoom MS60B.

A total Swiss army knife pedal that will slot into your existing pedal board and give you almost unlimited effects options. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Linus27]

Thank you very much for the replies. I really like the look of the Zoom MS60B and it looks like just another pedal so will pit onto my existing board  Certainly worth a punt.

[Newfoundfreedom]

4 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

Thank you very much for the replies. I really like the look of the Zoom MS60B and it looks like just another pedal so will pit onto my existing board  Certainly worth a punt.

Yeah they're ridiculously good value for money too. They often come up on here for around 60 quid or less. 

[BigRedX]

As a multi-effects user for almost 35 years now the convenience of having everything in one box with user programmable memories that can be recalled to give you exactly the sound your wanted at the push of a button more than out-weigh any supposed lack of sound quality.

 

I say supposed, because firstly I never been in a position where I have been able to do a direct A/B comparison between any modelled amp/cab/effect and the "real thing", and TBH I really don't care, so long as the sound that come out of the device is a sound that I want. Secondly IME most analogue devices show degrees of variation between example, so who is to say which variation is the one to be aiming for? Thirdly most modern multi-effects (especially the modellers line Line6 will have multiple versions of the same effect, so if for instance you don't like one chorus model there's another 2 or 3 to chose from. One of them will almost always give you a usable sound. When I'm putting a pre-set together I always go on the ultimate sound and not what the individual building blocks are - for instance I don't use many amp models, and when I do they are often "guitar" amps because I like the sound that they give me. For me that's one of the great things about software modelling, in that you can use sims that you would never dream of putting a bass guitar through at any volume in "real life", but because it's just a model the worst that can happen is you won't like the sound it produces.

 

My current multi-effects of choice is the Helix Floor. I chose this one based on the assumption that if I went for a lesser model, I'd find something sooner or later that I needed that only the top of the range version would do. For me the LED "scribble-strips" have become absolutely invaluable, so I'm glad that I did go for the full version. I can have a separate preset for each song (and use the Snapshot function for variations within the song itself), which has all the effects tweaked so that my sound is exactly right for the overall band mix each time. After all the other instruments all use different sounds, so the bass needs to change even if it is only slightly to fit into the new mix. The set list function means that I can re-arrange the presets in the correct order for a gig in seconds and then just use the next preset button to select the right sound for the next song (although this has now been superseded by using the computer that also plays our backing to automatically change presets for each song and snapshots within the songs without me needing to be at the pedal to do so and I can concentrate on playing and putting on a performance).

 

I do all my major editing on the computer using the HX Edit application, but the editing on the device is easy to make tweaks in the rehearsal room to fine tune the sounds completely painless.

 

The Zoom devices do look like very good VFM. The only downside I have recently discovered is that the cheaper models don't have MIDI so they can't be really be integrated into a more complex set up (and they would definitely not meet my requirements).

[Linus27]

9 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

As a multi-effects user for almost 35 years now the convenience of having everything in one box with user programmable memories that can be recalled to give you exactly the sound your wanted at the push of a button more than out-weigh any supposed lack of sound quality.

 

I say supposed, because firstly I never been in a position where I have been able to do a direct A/B comparison between any modelled amp/cab/effect and the "real thing", and TBH I really don't care, so long as the sound that come out of the device is a sound that I want. Secondly IME most analogue devices show degrees of variation between example, so who is to say which variation is the one to be aiming for? Thirdly most modern multi-effects (especially the modellers line Line6 will have multiple versions of the same effect, so if for instance you don't like one chorus model there's another 2 or 3 to chose from. One of them will almost always give you a usable sound. When I'm putting a pre-set together I always go on the ultimate sound and not what the individual building blocks are - for instance I don't use many amp models, and when I do they are often "guitar" amps because I like the sound that they give me. For me that's one of the great things about software modelling, in that you can use sims that you would never dream of putting a bass guitar through at any volume in "real life", but because it's just a model the worst that can happen is you won't like the sound it produces.

 

My current multi-effects of choice is the Helix Floor. I chose this one based on the assumption that if I went for a lesser model, I'd find something sooner or later that I needed that only the top of the range version would do. For me the LED "scribble-strips" have become absolutely invaluable, so I'm glad that I did go for the full version. I can have a separate preset for each song (and use the Snapshot function for variations within the song itself), which has all the effects tweaked so that my sound is exactly right for the overall band mix each time. After all the other instruments all use different sounds, so the bass needs to change even if it is only slightly to fit into the new mix. The set list function means that I can re-arrange the presets in the correct order for a gig in seconds and then just use the next preset button to select the right sound for the next song (although this has now been superseded by using the computer that also plays our backing to automatically change presets for each song and snapshots within the songs without me needing to be at the pedal to do so and I can concentrate on playing and putting on a performance).

 

I do all my major editing on the computer using the HX Edit application, but the editing on the device is easy to make tweaks in the rehearsal room to fine tune the sounds completely painless.

 

The Zoom devices do look like very good VFM. The only downside I have recently discovered is that the cheaper models don't have MIDI so they can't be really be integrated into a more complex set up (and they would definitely not meet my requirements).

 

Thank you and I'm absolutely loving the option to re-arrange presets in the correct order of the set-list, that's a superb feature.

[PaulThePlug]

Zoom B1On or B1Four...

Delete the Pre-sets, build your own Sound Blocks of pairs or so of pedals at whatever settings - Amount of Drive, with amounts of EQ - Amount of Speed and Depth of Chorus, Whatever with Whatever... inc variations of Amp Sim Settings... then put these blocks together for a 'Sound' or a Patch (or more) for a particular tune... name them and order them.

On my B1on i've got 1 Bank of 10 Patches of just the Marshall Super Bass Amp and Cab Sim but each slightly increasing drive 'n a tone tweak... so you can ramp it up 'n ease it off at the tap of a button.

Tuner, Drum Machine/Metronome, Phones Out, Aux In... Looper! Will feed a desk but TS not XLR

Ignore all the its plastic it's fragile blah blah, unless you like to throw and kick things about, they are fine.

Keep an eye in the FS...

Have a Gander at the FX List and Destructions pdf's on the Zoom site. See if its what ya after and does-the-does...

Edited July 19, 2023 by PaulThePlug

[Skybone]

It really depends on what you want to achieve TBH.

 

If you want to replace your separate pedals, or enhance them with more options, then something like the Zoom B1-Four might be a good place to start. The MS60B is an old model now, and the B1-Four is more recent, and hopefully benefitting from upgraded chipsets and better effect models.

 

There are a couple of good looking options in the Effects For Sale section just now:

Zoom B2 Four

Line6 M13

Line6 M9

 

These will give you a good selection of digital effect models to play with. Not sure if any of them have FX Loops though.

[TheGreek]

2 hours ago, PaulThePlug said:

Zoom B1On or B1Four...

Delete the Pre-sets, build your own Sound Blocks of pairs or so of pedals at whatever settings - Amount of Drive, with amounts of EQ - Amount of Speed and Depth of Chorus, Whatever with Whatever... inc variations of Amp Sim Settings... then put these blocks together for a 'Sound' or a Patch (or more) for a particular tune... name them and order them.

On my B1on i've got 1 Bank of 10 Patches of just the Marshall Super Bass Amp and Cab Sim but each slightly increasing drive 'n a tone tweak... so you can ramp it up 'n ease it off at the tap of a button.

Tuner, Drum Machine/Metronome, Phones Out, Aux In... Looper! Will feed a desk but TS not XLR

Ignore all the its plastic it's fragile blah blah, unless you like to throw and kick things about, they are fine.

Keep an eye in the FS...

Have a Gander at the FX List and Destructions pdf's on the Zoom site. See if its what ya after and does-the-does...

 

I have more than one - they are ridiculously cheap and simple to use - once you have the hang of saving amended settings you really are away.

[LukeFRC]

Ease of use, all the effects you could ever want, routing options, amp and cab sims - it’s all there in a small convenient package.

 

The one downside is sometimes the interface and ideally using a computer to edit content. Individual effects with knobs for things are possibly easier to dial in - but it depends on the user.
For instance @BigRedX has a workflow for his helix that works, I struggled to make my stomp workflow rewarding

Edited July 19, 2023 by LukeFRC

[Boodang]

I'm a pedal board guy, my current setup has 14 pedals on it (soon to be more!). I've been down the multi-effects pedal route (and I still check out the latest offerings) but the reason it's not for me is the interface, I like knobs and hate screens. 

Also, with few exceptions (mostly synth sounds I'd say, so not bothered), my pedals sound better and I have some analogue pedals which digital versions in a multi can't really replicate. I think the nearest I came recently is the TC Plethora as the interface is ok, but I'd still have to integrate it with my analogue pedals. 

And then there's the biggest reason for having pedals... the artwork on them is better!

[BigRedX]

Before I got my first multi-effects unit, I had a 14U wheeled rack case containing individual effects unit - some proper rack-mounted devices and others modified to fit in the case, all controlled by huge bank of pedals connected by a fat cable snake to the various units. I would have a little diagram next to each song in the set list to show which switches needed to be off or on. Once I'd done that there was usually no time left to manually change any the the actual effects parameters, so either I'd compromise on a single setting for all the songs, or multiple instances of the the same effect.

 

The whole lot was replaced with a 1U Roland GP8. Although by modern standards it was incredibly primitive - just 8 effects in a fixed order with only a handful of parameters for each effect, it did nearly everything my previous set up was capable off, but in a far more reliable and consistent manner. And while some sounds weren't quite as good as before most of them were far better because I could have a distortion, EQ or flanger speed for tailored not only for each song, but also for each part of that song where it needed to change, and even more importantly they would all be right every time we played that song.

 

Conversely I've been in bands with musicians who appear to be re-inventing the wheel every time they set up their (often very expensive boutique) pedals and waste valuable rehearsal and sound-checking time struggling to get their sound. Whereas I plug in whatever multi-effect device I'm currently using, select the patch for the first song and I'm ready to go.

[SumOne]

I find it analogous to Kindle vs paper books, streaming vs vinyl, digital camera vs film etc.

 

Multi-fx logically/practically make more sense than individual pedals, but individual pedals have a more 'soul' (for want of a better word). 

 

Personally, I prefer multi-fx for bands where I know what all the songs are all going to be and to set presets accordingly. For more of a spontanious jam band type thing I prefer stomping on and adjusting individual pedals. 

[Muzz]

I use a Stomp now (after a few forays into bigger pedalboard setups), it's very very versatile, and in the covers/function bands I'm in, it makes a lot of sense; I can set my tones (I have about half a dozen that cover all eventualities (and a couple of 'dedicated' ones, like for Hysteria and Sledgehammer)) and I also have them set in different pitches for different bands - one band is tuned concert, another is Eb, etc, plus there's the odd song which gets played in a different position depending on the singer, so I have have all of my presets everywhere from low B to high(er) Bb (this is dead easy to set up; just a cut-and-paste in the software, took about 15 minutes). I'm not a cork-sniffer when it comes to the tones themselves, like a lot of things I'm happy with '95% there for 5% of the time and effort', especially when the drummer starts hitting things: it works for me. One guitarist/BL I play with has a huuuuge pedalboard, and he never stops fiddling with it; soooo many individual knobs... 🙁😀 I just turn up, set the overall level, and go...

[Franticsmurf]

Another vote for the MS60B. I bought it as a stop gap and a means to try out effects types before investing in a dedicated pedal version. It has been the one pedal that has remained on my board throughout the changes I've made for various projects. I now use a Plethora X3 for compression, chorus, flange, phase, octave and delay but the MS60B supplies most of the overdrive options, amp sims and all my filter sounds. I have specific patches on the Zoom for songs like 'Sledgehammer' and 'Dakota' which require a quite specialised but one-off sound. In rehearsals, I can use the MS60B to quickly approximate a new sound before fine tuning it later.

[tauzero]

Single pedals can have an advantage over multifx if they have exactly the sound you want and you always want to use them at the same settings. Where multifx score is the ability to swap between different effects of the same type, to change patches or snapshots between the same set of pedals with different settings, and being able to change your "pedalboard" very easily (either adding and removing effects or changing effect order). I have an MS60B permanently with me to put a basic sound on if I'm not using a pedalboard.

[Cat Burrito]

Another reason why I love Basschat... I've been using a few effects on my bass for the first time over the last couple of years. I then decided to get an amp with built in effects. However, some of the open mic and pub gigs have been amp-free so I had no effects. I'd borrowed a couple of pedals recently and had decided I needs to build / buy / fund a small board. Reading this thread and BAM! It is obvious, quick online purchase of a cheap(ish) multi-effects unit and job done. Plenty good enough for my needs in those settings. Cheers everyone! 

[LukeFRC]

one obvious massive benefit of multi effects is that you don't have to know what you want before you buy it.

 

Buy a good one, like a HX stomp or whatever the Boss equivalent and you can literally try EVERYTHING in any order and mess around with things. 

 

I doubt I would shell out for even a cheap reverb or delay pedal... cos it's not something I've ever been interested in and, well I tend not want to spend loads.... but have a multiFX and you can try ALL the reverbs, after different delays... why this is good is it's fun. And it also lets you work out what you actually like and need. In my case my elaborate patches for each song eventually got refined down to something so simple I got individual effects to do the same thing.

[PaulThePlug]

I've a Zoom B1on... great... so good i recommended one to my mate, and got one that @Rumple was selling for him. Mate got a Fender Rumble LT, so i had the 'lil Zoom back of him quick-like.

Something to keep my Son busy over the Summer Holidays... 'Cos my B1on is Mine...

[Bassmidget209]

Would also recommend the ms60b. Several reasons, 1, it's a good way to 'try' multi effects without committing to the concept. It's small enough to fit on most boards, but also it doesn't take over your existing board and therefore your way of thinking about effects. Its an accessory pedal, not the one stop shop, or main focus in the same way I feel the stomp or a helix would be. 

2 it is solidly built and not expensive, as far as these things go. Even brand new it's cheaper than most multis (other zooms aside) but it is also solid metal. I know it sounds silly but that makes feel more ' real' to me and not an entry level product. With these 2 things in mind I feel it can grow with your board. It's a real handy little device that doesn't take up a lot of space so you can afford to have it hang around for the sounds it does well. 

Also another handy thing is it's a BASS pedal. It has just about every flavour of effect but they are tuned in for bass and optimised for a bass specific role. You don't have 70-80% of the presets that are absolutely useless for your application. I felt it gave the initial explorations a more grounded feel and less likely to result in overwhelm. 

 

So downsides - it's eh, small. It does make setting up presets and the like challenging/frustrating. They have really thought about how to make the most use of of the tiny space available but it results in a lack of intuitiveness that I think a larger screen and touchscreen capabilities etc would really help with. 

That's the main issue, namely, it's a multieffect and therefore doesn't rely entirely on knobs and led lights. If that bothers you in this setup it's a cheaper lesson than a stomp or the like. 

If you are in a cover band or something where you need A sound, night after night, ideally at the push of a button. Dive into the multieffects world and just go for it. If your still experimenting and seeing what you want and what you love then something like the zoom starts to make a lot of sense.

 

Oh and it needs really clean power otherwise it's a hummy mess. It needs quality isolated power or a wee power conditioner then your good!

[tauzero]

A couple of other little things about the MS-60B to qualify what @Bassmidget209 says.

 

If you have a PC, you can use Tonelib's free and very good Zoom manager to play with the effect - https://tonelib.net/tonelib-zoom.html

 

If you use the MS-60B standalone or off a pedalboard, Zoom's own power supply is fine, and also it can be run off two AA batteries, which last a goodly time (rechargeables last me at least 4 hours).

[Elfrasho]

I gig with a HX stomp, but I've went through alot of the zoom stuff. The MS60b is a genius bit of kit. For my function gigs, id happily use my ms60b. Obviously you need to be a bit more realistic with how its used over the 3 pedal stomp but from sound alone, you'll be happy.