Jazz basses - they all sound the same

[Skinnyman]

1 hour ago, ezbass said:

Ah, this accounts for when one gets asked by audience members, “Can you play far away?” 😂

That and those deeply entrenched in their views who believe they are right and  by ‘shouting’ the same old lines, expecting others to eventually capitulate and agree with them.

I didn't really agree with you to start with but yeah, I s'pose you're right......

 

 

😁😁😁

[NancyJohnson]

20 minutes ago, 4000 said:

But could you tell they sounded different? Some can, some can’t, IME. Some people simply have much better ears, but everyone hears things differently anyway.

We blind tested Rickenbacker's, Fenders, Gibsons, my 40 year old Aria, home builds; everyone taking part had access to the basses beforehand and had a list of the basses during the test.  I think the highest score was 3/20 and about 30 people took part.

The main thing demonstrated here was that some of the people taking part couldn't even recognise their own babies in a blind shoot out.

[NancyJohnson]

11 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

More importantly (to me, anyway) is do they sound different when played in a band?

Point.

Any nuances will be lost in a full band environment; you're just providing background rumble as a counterpoint to the rest of the band.  And let's face it, 99% of your audience don't care what the bass sounds like.

[4000]

4 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

More importantly (to me, anyway) is do they sound different when played in a band? Playing on your own at home it is easy to hear the subtle differences between basses, between strings, between picks and fingers - but when I listen to recordings of gigs I've played, I couldn't say without checking which bass I was playing, whether I was using round or flats, likewise pick or fingers. It all sounds much the same in the mix, especially when the final sound is out of your control because it all goes through the PA anyway.

That’s interesting, because I’d say I can tell you, even playing different basses of the same make. I have many old band recordings and I can always tell you what bass I was using. Of course it’s doubtful anyone else could. 😉 

One other thing to bear in mind, it’s easy enough to make a bass sound different to what you’re used to hearing. If you tend to eq a certain way, or use a certain rig, then that becomes part of what you’re used to hearing. So, using that eq and/or rig, then you may be able to easily differentiate between different basses, using that as your “background” sound, for want of a better term. But change the eq and/or rig and the goalposts move. It doesn’t mean you can’t tell they’re different, but it may make them harder to identify. I’m pretty sure I could tell you which of my basses is which in a blind test if plugged into my gear, but could I if plugged into someone else’s gear with a completely different background sound? It’s the same principle as making someone up to look different than they normally do. 

 

[4000]

3 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

Point.

Any nuances will be lost in a full band environment; you're just providing background rumble as a counterpoint to the rest of the band.  And let's face it, 99% of your audience don't care what the bass sounds like.

99% of the audience don’t care about anything much beyond being able to sing or dance along. I can’t say I really factor in what the audience thinks, from a sound or playing perspective. 

[paul_c2]

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

With all due respect to everyone who has posted (and no offense), the thing I have issue with is that just because someone owns a bass that looks like a Jazz Bass, this doesn't make it a Jazz Bass.  Same goes  Epiphone Thunderbirds, Rockingbetters etc. 

I've owned two Fender Jazz basses in my time (CIJ Geddy Lee and an Aerodyne), I've also played a few 60s and more copies than I can actually remember; none of them were exact replicas of each other, so where is the actual reference model?  It's like all these people saying that the new Epiphone Thunderbirds are the closest thing out there to a 60s Gibson Thunderbird.  Err, no.  They're just saying this stuff because a) someone else has said it, b) to justify their purchase, c) it makes them feel better about paying a twentieth of the price of an original model and because d) they've never played a 60s Thunderbird.

At the SE Bass Bash in 2018, Gary and I did a fairly extensive blind-test of about 20 basses and it was very clear the results just reinforced that nobody really had a clue which bass was being played - even their own - and that I still haven't been able to shake Carry On, Wayward Son from my head 18 months later.   Every bass pretty much just ponks if you just plug it into an amp and play it clean and every bass will come alive if you pass it through a usable pre-stage. 

After 40 years of playing, I'll let you into a secret. The real tone comes from your hands, technique, string choice, pickups and whatever you're plugging into.  Forget about 'tone' woods, fingerboard material, neck radius, how wide the neck is at whatever fret and so on.  It's a nonsense.  Just remember that your desired tone is not someone else's; find out how to achieve your tone and learn to replicate it on whatever bass you're playing.  If you can play, you'll make a bass sound decent to your ears, irrespective of what it is.

 

So true.

 

5 minutes ago, 4000 said:

99% of the audience don’t care about anything much beyond being able to sing or dance along. I can’t say I really factor in what the audience thinks, from a sound or playing perspective. 

True too. 

I think the point worth making is that a Jazz bass can sound different, by altering the balance of the pickups. And of course there is the tone control; which is a bit more limited (which also means, a P bass has a more limited range of sounds.

Then it comes down to "what is a Jazz bass"? If we're talking about fretless, active pickups, etc etc then of course they're going to make it sound distinctly different. 

[Reggaebass]

15 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

These threads are gradually boiling down until the Basses - they all sound the same thread.

Exactly, we’ve got,  all p basses sound the same   , all jazz basses sound the same and, all gear sounds the same,  is there too much Gluhwein about this Christmas 😁

                               

[Beedster]

18 minutes ago, 4000 said:

I have many old band recordings and I can always tell you what bass I was using. Of course it’s doubtful anyone else could. 😉 

I realised recently that I can't, especially if it's my fretless Jazz versus my fretless Precision (both with flats). In fact I was going to start a thread about it but realised it would just have turned into this thread, which let's face it, is nothing new!

I should add that I find it slightly easier with fretted versions of Js & Ps as I tend to play rounds on the former and flats on the latter. 

[paul_c2]

There's two (or three) aspects really.

1) Does the player themselves enjoy the interaction and the sound, in a controlled (ie you can hear yourself very well) practice environment?
2a) Does the bass, and whatever other equipment in the signal chain, produce a nice usable sound "in the mix" in a band/group situation?
2b) How do you achieve a usable sound, or what are the pitfalls or mistakes you or a sound engineer could make, to miss the opportunity to do so (assuming all the other equipment in the signal chain is capable).

[Cuzzie]

10 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Exactly, we’ve got,  all p basses sound the same   , all jazz basses sound the same and, all gear sounds the same,  is there too much Gluhwein about this Christmas 😁

                               

That all gear sounds the same thread is a very very seriously researched and made thread.

Next you’ll start be facetious and say all comments sound the same....

[ezbass]

33 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

We blind tested Rickenbacker's, Fenders, Gibsons, my 40 year old Aria, home builds; everyone taking part had access to the basses beforehand and had a list of the basses during the test.  I think the highest score was 3/20 and about 30 people took part.

The main thing demonstrated here was that some of the people taking part couldn't even recognise their own babies in a blind shoot out.

I was there and it’s true. I picked out the Ricks and my own J type, but the others, although different in nuance, were bass guitars, but as to what type they were was a mystery to most of us. Play what sounds and feels good to you and also, if you’re aesthetically inclined, what you like the look of.

[Frank Blank]

All threads read the same to me.

[Reggaebass]

5 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Next you’ll start be facetious and say all comments sound the same.

Bit harsh cuzzie, it was an observation no malice intended 🙂

[Cuzzie]

4 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Bit harsh cuzzie, it was an observation no malice intended 🙂

Sorry - not meaning to be harsh - no malice intended on my behalf fella - most of my comments sound very similar tho, but I even bore myself

[FinnDave]

32 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

All threads read the same to me.

All the words look the same to me. Words words wirds weirds.

Maybe I should cut down on the glöggi (mulled wine to most of the rest of you)

[skankdelvar]

Countryside fact: Whatever direction you choose to walk you''ll be getting closer to a Jazz bass.

[songofthewind]

2 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Countryside fact: Whatever direction you choose to walk you''ll be getting closer to a Jazz bass.

This is absolutely correct. I live in the country and if I walk about five metres from where I’m sitting I could have a Jazz Bass in my hand.

[FinnDave]

10 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Countryside fact: Whatever direction you choose to walk you''ll be getting closer to a Jazz bass.

But when I walk to my local in half an hour so I will definitely be getting further away from my brace of Jazz Basses with every step.

[ezbass]

22 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

But when I walk to my local in half an hour so I will definitely be getting further away from my brace of Jazz Basses with every step.

Tell us how they sound at predetermined distances.  

[Frank Blank]

36 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Countryside fact: Whatever direction you choose to walk you''ll be getting closer to a Jazz bass.

As T. C. Lethbridge writes in his 1963 publication Ghost and Divining Rod...

“To walk the paths and old tracks of England on an autumn morning is to walk with men from time immemorial on routes between sites whose function and import is now lost in the whetstone mists that surround our ancestral past, and yet in returning home, warming ones bones by the fire and knocking out a scale or two on a Jazz bass, one feels somehow reconnected with this past, these people, this England of ours. The very notes conjure quiet streams trickling through meadows leading towards the quiet mysterious stones that somehow seem to watch and know, perhaps, just perhaps, our ancestors await us there?”

Edited December 29, 2019 by Frank Blank

[skankdelvar]

14 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

But when I walk to my local in half an hour so I will definitely be getting further away from my brace of Jazz Basses with every step.

As long as you follow a great circle route. you'll always be getting closer to somebody else's Jazz. Keep on going and eventually you'll be getting closer to your own Jazzes again.

Here's how:

 

[LukeFRC]

illegal immigrants aren't they Jazz basses? blooming Americans coming over here, taking over our contryside with their imported baselines 

[skankdelvar]

3 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

T. C. Lethbridge

Ah, Tom Lethbridge; a good man and a champion dowser. It was a privilege to have known him.

Gone beyond, now, of course.

[Frank Blank]

1 minute ago, LukeFRC said:

illegal immigrants aren't they Jazz basses? blooming Americans coming over here, taking over our contryside with their imported baselines 

Bloody Jazz basses, over here, over sexed, over played.

[Frank Blank]

1 minute ago, skankdelvar said:

Ah, Tom Lethbridge; a good man and a champion dowser. It was a privilege to have known him.

Gone beyond, now, of course.

Cracking bass player too, little known fact. A true pioneer, sadly missed.