Switching from 4 to 5 and back fried my brain

[Guest MoJo]

In the past, I’ve often replied to posts, where the OP has struggled with the switch from 4 to 5 strings, with a hearty “It’s never been a problem for me, I can switch back and forth between the two.” That all changed last night.

For some time now, I’ve played 4-string P-basses exclusively. A recent eBay bargain sees me now in possession of a Vintage White BB425. I ran through the set on it, at home, took it to rehearsal, it sounded great with the band and I felt pretty comfortable. I decided to give it a run out at the next gig (last night). 

I played it in the first set and made so many mistakes. I don’t think it was the extra string that was the problem, I don’t think I once played the wrong string. It was the narrower spacing that was tripping me up. 

For the second half, I strapped on the P-bass. I had to dial in a fair bit more gain (those BB pickups are hot). We kicked off the second half and my P-bass, which once felt like a comfy pair of well worn slippers, now felt alien to me. It took a good four or five songs until I felt comfortable on the P-bass again. 

I don’t know if it’s an age thing, I’ve just turned 57, but it looks as though I’m going to have to make a choice as to whether I play one  or the other exclusively 

[CameronJ]

Give it time, keep switching back and forth regularly at home. Before long it won’t be a problem. But if you’re certain you can only keep one, make sure it’s the BB 

[chris_b]

When I switched to 5 string basses I tried to swap back and forth, depending on the song. It didn't work as smoothly as I'd have wished. In the end I was making mistakes on both instruments. My solution wasn't to practice more (which I guess is really the best thing) but to put the 4 away and only play the 5. Problem solved.

The penny dropped when I realised that the type of bass didn't make songs sound better, but the way I played them did. I stuck to the more flexible instrument and focussed on was the way I was playing it.

[TheGreek]

What @chris_b says...only I went back to what I was most comfortable on...a 4 string.

[Paul S]

I am kind of scared this would happen to be by chopping and changing so I stick with 5 strings now*.  I've got quite used to hopping around frets 5-7.  Something I've just thought of - it is almost like playing a short scale, which I always enjoyed.

*Except my EUB and new acoustic.  Damn.  

[thepurpleblob]

It's not a problem for me... BUT... my 5s all have 19mm spacing. I don't really like (understand?) narrower spacing and it makes switching result in a variety of fumbles. 

[BreadBin]

19 minutes ago, thepurpleblob said:

It's not a problem for me... BUT... my 5s all have 19mm spacing. I don't really like (understand?) narrower spacing and it makes switching result in a variety of fumbles. 

I find the same - 19mm = no problem. Anything less and it's difficult. 

[Woodinblack]

I generally only play a 5, but I did once play a 6 live and made so many mistakes. I figure this is because of years of 4/5 switching, I anchor everything from the G string so when it becomes a C, it became a problem. I solved the problem by selling the 6 string.

I don't have a problem as such on the 4 string on the occasion I play live with it but I have to remember to redo some of the songs to make up for the loss of the string.

52 minutes ago, thepurpleblob said:

It's not a problem for me... BUT... my 5s all have 19mm spacing. I don't really like (understand?) narrower spacing and it makes switching result in a variety of fumbles. 

Could well be the spacing. Although I have a P, I really can't play it well and I wouldn't even dream of trying to play a 5 string with 19mm spacing. The further it goes from 16.5mm the higher the chances of it feeling like an alien instrument.

[Krysbass]

Especially as I'm a lefty playing right-handed, with hindsight; I don't think expecting my right hand to adjust to my Spector Rebop 5-string's 17mm spacing was a wise move for me.  It's my only 5-string and my right hand's coordination and dexterity has definitely suffered on all my basses since I decided to make the leap to 5 strings.

String spacing aside, I love the Spector in all other respects and have yet to see another bass that ticks enough boxes to be a potential replacement  This means I keep trying to persevere with it, which is probably not the best idea.

An afternoon in a well stocked bass shop may be the only way to break the cycle.......😐

[Owen]

25 years ago I could switch from DB/Plank (tuned in 4ths) to 'cello (tuned in 5ths). Those days are well over. I dipped my toe in the 6 string pond last year to have a bottom F#. My brain went to jelly. It was not for me - which was gutting because it was one of the nicest basses I have ever played.

[tauzero]

After switching to 5-string almost exclusively 10 years ago, I've started playing 4-strings again in one band. I'm not finding any problems with it. Now I've just got to see how easy it will be to use a 6 with another of the bands...

[AdrianP]

Not a 5 vs 4 issue for me (I don't have a 5-er to have ever tried it) but swapping from fretless to fretted during a set causes me no end of problems. Fretted to fretless is fine. Just going back the other way seems to fundamenally mess up something in my head.

[Guest MoJo]

After having time to mull it over, I've decided to sell the BB425. It's a lovely instrument but the material I play with my current band doesn't require the extended range.

[martthebass]

21 hours ago, MoJo said:

In the past, I’ve often replied to posts, where the OP has struggled with the switch from 4 to 5 strings, with a hearty “It’s never been a problem for me, I can switch back and forth between the two.” That all changed last night.

For some time now, I’ve played 4-string P-basses exclusively. A recent eBay bargain sees me now in possession of a Vintage White BB425. I ran through the set on it, at home, took it to rehearsal, it sounded great with the band and I felt pretty comfortable. I decided to give it a run out at the next gig (last night). 

I played it in the first set and made so many mistakes. I don’t think it was the extra string that was the problem, I don’t think I once played the wrong string. It was the narrower spacing that was tripping me up. 

For the second half, I strapped on the P-bass. I had to dial in a fair bit more gain (those BB pickups are hot). We kicked off the second half and my P-bass, which once felt like a comfy pair of well worn slippers, now felt alien to me. It took a good four or five songs until I felt comfortable on the P-bass again. 

I don’t know if it’s an age thing, I’ve just turned 57, but it looks as though I’m going to have to make a choice as to whether I play one  or the other exclusively 

This.

Tried to get on with 5s a number of times, it was the switching that killed me every time.  I had to make a decision and in the end decided I can play everything I need to on a 4 so......

I also thought part of the reason was string spacing but I have 4s where the string spacing is all over (Mustang, Rick, Stingray) and it's never bothered me.

[chris_b]

First let me stress, this is not directed at anyone in particular. . . .  but my first thought when reading these 5 or 4 string threads (Talkbass is also full of them) is why do so many people buy a 5 string bass when they seem to have no need for one! It's hardly surprising that there is such a high drop out rate because they didn't make the decision backed by any specific plan or needs.

Moving from 4 to 5 presents fewer difficulties than we overcome when starting to play a bass from scratch, but it defeats so many. With so many stories of failure, again, it beats me why so many keep trying without working out what they want out of the change.

Then it's the poor bass regularly gets the blame for the players inability to settle.

[BreadBin]

I thought I didn't like 5s - but it turned out I didn't like 5s with narrow bridge spacing. As soon as I tried a wide boy it all clicked into place.

[martthebass]

28 minutes ago, chris_b said:

First let me stress, this is not directed at anyone in particular. . . .  but my first thought when reading these 5 or 4 string threads (Talkbass is also full of them) is why do so many people buy a 5 string bass when they seem to have no need for one! It's hardly surprising that there is such a high drop out rate because they didn't make the decision backed by any specific plan or needs.

Moving from 4 to 5 presents fewer difficulties than we overcome when starting to play a bass from scratch, but it defeats so many. With so many stories of failure, again, it beats me why so many keep trying without working out what they want out of the change.

Then it's the poor bass regularly gets the blame for the players inability to settle.

Maybe it's because 4 string players thought they were missing out on something?  Not taking your comment as directed at me, but in my own case I didn't find out that there was no benefit to me in a 5er until I'd spent time with one, and like a fool having determined that to be the case had to try it again (and again) until I finally got the message.

To be honest, on some stuff I think some of the stuff I played was easier on a 5 because of less fretting hand movement but when it became clear that that wasn't essential then I stuck with 4s.  If the need ever arose to have to have a 5 then I would have to go the whole hog and move exclusively to 5s. 

[Guest MoJo]

50 minutes ago, chris_b said:

First let me stress, this is not directed at anyone in particular. . . .  but my first thought when reading these 5 or 4 string threads (Talkbass is also full of them) is why do so many people buy a 5 string bass when they seem to have no need for one! 

In my case, I bought the bass at a bargain price, with every intention of selling it on again straight away and hopefully make a bit of a profit. I should have stuck to my original plan instead of thinking,

”I could just hang onto it and gig it now and then.”

As you say, I have no need for a 5-string and I hope I remember that the next time I get tempted to add one to my ‘arsenal’

 

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, chris_b said:

Then it's the poor bass regularly gets the blame for the players inability to settle.

I don't remember ever hear anyone complaining about it being the basses fault, generally people just say 'I can't get on with a 5 string', which is pointing at them rather than the bass.

As to the 'why do you want to change' thing, I agree to some extent, other than if you don't try, you don't know but find I am the other way round, I often get a hankering for a 4, because there are some really nice 4s that just dont exist as 5s, so I get a 4 and end up having to redo stuff and then it ends up in a pile not getting played.

[EMG456]

@MoJo, you were probably just having an off night. If you've been playing fours exclusively for a while, having the five could feel odd and it probably threw you even when you went back to the four.

As with all things music, practise and familiarity is the key. A good five is handy to have around in my opinion but it obviously depends on your priorities and what you want to do.

It's not an age thing - I just got delivery of my 60th Birthday bass and it's a 6 string, 32 inch scale fretless. Now I've never played fretless while singing lead vocals before but the temptation to take it to the gig was too much. The playing was fine but the excess of strings and lack of frets apparently causes you to completely forget all your words - who knew!

By all means, stick to the fours if that's what you want but for me at least, variety is the spice etc...

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, EMG456 said:

It's not an age thing - I just got delivery of my 60th Birthday bass and it's a 6 string, 32 inch scale fretless. Now I've never played fretless while singing lead vocals before but the temptation to take it to the gig was too much. The playing was fine but the excess of strings and lack of frets apparently causes you to completely forget all your words - who knew!

That's actually another of your 60th birthday gifts, discovering that breakfast is a foreign country.

[Lozz196]

9 hours ago, chris_b said:

First let me stress, this is not directed at anyone in particular. . . .  but my first thought when reading these 5 or 4 string threads (Talkbass is also full of them) is why do so many people buy a 5 string bass when they seem to have no need for one! It's hardly surprising that there is such a high drop out rate because they didn't make the decision backed by any specific plan or needs.

Moving from 4 to 5 presents fewer difficulties than we overcome when starting to play a bass from scratch, but it defeats so many. With so many stories of failure, again, it beats me why so many keep trying without working out what they want out of the change.

Then it's the poor bass regularly gets the blame for the players inability to settle.

Aside from my punk sensibilities, with anything aside from 4 strings being the spawn of Satan, this is why I’ve never gone down the 5 string route. I just don’t need one for the music I play. I could actually get away with a 3 string if honest, and at a push maybe a 2!

[casapete]

Never had any real GAS for a 5 string, although in one band I was in the singer’s lack of vocal range meant we had to transpose a lot of stuff down,so a fiver would have been useful - however, we gave him the boot which saved me the bother! Nowadays any 5 GAS would be quickly stopped by the extra weight inevitably involved, my poor old back and shoulder just wouldn’t allow it.

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, casapete said:

Nowadays any 5 GAS would be quickly stopped by the extra weight inevitably involved, my poor old back and shoulder just wouldn’t allow it.

That's not accurate or logical. You can find 4 string basses that are far heavier than many 5 string basses.

 

[casapete]

13 minutes ago, chris_b said:

That's not accurate or logical. You can find 4 string basses that are far heavier than many 5 string basses.

 

But 5 string basses lighter than my 4 string? Unlikely I think, but welcome any suggestions. ( For reference, my 4 string Fender weighs a tad under 7lbs, my Dano probably around 6lbs)