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Is this acceptable for a new Ibanez? (Fit and finish issues) UPDATE

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I've had nothing but positive experiences with Merchant City. 

I would be inclined to telephone them and discuss this making sure you're at least speaking to one of the managers.

It's utterly ridiculous to suggest taking the neck off would damage the warranty and a manager would should know that.

EDIT: Fixed.

Edited by hiram.k.hackenbacker
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15 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I've had nothing but positive experiences with Merchant City. 

I would be inclined to telephone them and discuss this making sure you're at least speaking to one of the managers.

It's utterly ridiculous to suggest taking the neck off would damage the warranty and a manager would know that.

The person who emailed me is the purchases and accounts manager. 

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With so many faults and their evasive response, this would appear to me like the actions of a trader trying to pass graded stock off as "perfect".

Being wise after the event, it's a shame you didn't send it back as simply "not as required" and get a refund under the distance selling regulations.

TBH I'm really surprised it needs a shim. That, after all is a work-around to cover for a badly worked pocket. No new bass should need a shim IMHO.

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I would be going to  a different retailer next time! What an attitude to customers :|

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2 hours ago, dood said:

 Even more so if I received that sort of message about it 'never being perfect'. Nonsense. Ibanez UK would probably like to hear about this too. 

Agreed.

I can't see Ibanez being too happy about one of their retailers casually undermining their hard won reputation as a quality guitar/bass manufacturer.

'The fit and finish of Ibanez guitars at this price point and even higher is never perfect. They have crammed a lot of features in to the guitar for the price.'.

I'm pretty sure Ibanez would have something to say about that statement.

Edited by Cato

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37 minutes ago, Grangur said:

 

TBH I'm really surprised it needs a shim. That, after all is a work-around to cover for a badly worked pocket. No new bass should need a shim IMHO.

I've got around 6 grands worth of Musicman basses here, they've all been shimmed in sunny california, lol.

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11 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

I'm sure a response to the Retailer and Ibanez with a link to this thread would soon see a swift resolution to the issue!

Yes, I'd love to know what Ibanez have to say about the condition of this guitar and the fact that the retailer has both accused the purchaser of damaging it 'and' the implied that it is what you'd expect on an instrument, at the same time?

 Or perhaps all ibanez instruments come with a crack in the heel of the neck?

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51 minutes ago, Grangur said:

 

TBH I'm really surprised it needs a shim. That, after all is a work-around to cover for a badly worked pocket. No new bass should need a shim IMHO.

 

I don't know about that. Mass produced bolt-on instruments often have shims in place during initial set-up at the factory. 

If you were handcrafting each instrument making sure it matched its neck, no, you wouldn't expect a shim in the end. But those instruments would not sell for the price they currently sell if they required the extra attention. A shim, that you cannot even tell is there unless you remove the neck and look, is not exactly a sign of a poor instrument, to me. 

But... I have a feeling of deja-vu :D

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@stingrayPete1977, @mcnach, OK, maybe I've been spoilt with instruments that haven't needed shims.

I would have thought a pocket routed to the correct depth wouldn't need one. Yet, I have to say I've fitted a fair few in older instruments.

I reserve the right to be wrong on occasions.

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Last time this came up most of the people saying it's wrong that musicman fit them hadn't and wouldn't remove their own necks on various makes to check. 

 

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25 minutes ago, Grangur said:

@stingrayPete1977, @mcnach, OK, maybe I've been spoilt with instruments that haven't needed shims.

I would have thought a pocket routed to the correct depth wouldn't need one. Yet, I have to say I've fitted a fair few in older instruments.

I reserve the right to be wrong on occasions.

 

It's not depth, mostly... it's the *angle*, and we're talking minute angles.

 

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Agreed, @mcnach. It is the angle. Provided the body is placed flat on the router table and clamped firmy, in a CNC manufacturing plant, the router should, surely come in cleanly at it's pre-programmed level/angle and re-produce the same depth/angle all day long.

Thinking about this more; I guess where the variation can come in is if the bodies are not as fully seasoned at the time of the manufacture as would be ideal. This happens in the manufacture of wood products, especially in the mass-market manufacture.  My experience of this is in solid oak furniture. It was certainly true there. 

In newly seasoned wood, further moisture may leave the wood after the cut has been made. This added seasoning can result in additional small movements in the wood at either end/side of the neck pocket. This is, of course, due to the nature of wood meaning that theory and practice isn't always the same thing. 

I've never needed a shim on a Warwick, which tends to be most of the basses I've owned TBH.  I would have hoped Fender and Musicman to be in the same area.  That said I have put shims in Fenders, and all number of other basses.  IME Ibanez are pretty reliable though.

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1 hour ago, mcnach said:

 

It's not depth, mostly... it's the *angle*

 

That's what I tell the missus. 

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2 hours ago, mcnach said:

 

It's not depth, mostly... it's the *angle*, and we're talking minute angles.

 

Yep, angle. Looking at the published spec for a Gibson SG bass neck fit, the neck angle is 1.5 degrees. The joint angle tolerance is given as 0 degrees 0 minutes 15 seconds.

That is a quarter of a sixthieth of a degree! I presume that is the accuracy of modern CNC machining.

This is a set neck, so has to be correct as it can't be shimmed.

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Well it's all packed up securely and ready to go. Hopefully there will be a happy ending. 

I'll let the seller know when it has been sent, just not sure what to reply with other then that. 

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11 hours ago, Grangur said:

Agreed, @mcnach. It is the angle. Provided the body is placed flat on the router table and clamped firmy, in a CNC manufacturing plant, the router should, surely come in cleanly at it's pre-programmed level/angle and re-produce the same depth/angle all day long.

Thinking about this more; I guess where the variation can come in is if the bodies are not as fully seasoned at the time of the manufacture as would be ideal. This happens in the manufacture of wood products, especially in the mass-market manufacture.  My experience of this is in solid oak furniture. It was certainly true there. 

In newly seasoned wood, further moisture may leave the wood after the cut has been made. This added seasoning can result in additional small movements in the wood at either end/side of the neck pocket. This is, of course, due to the nature of wood meaning that theory and practice isn't always the same thing. 

I've never needed a shim on a Warwick, which tends to be most of the basses I've owned TBH.  I would have hoped Fender and Musicman to be in the same area.  That said I have put shims in Fenders, and all number of other basses.  IME Ibanez are pretty reliable though.

And a bit of personal preference as regards set up.

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The damage to the neck looks like either an existing imperfection in the wood or an over tightened bolt when being fitted. It would be difficult if not impossible to cause this damage by simply removing the neck. 

Regardless, there’s nothing in the warranty that sugggests you can’t remove the neck.

http://www2.ibanez.com/support/warrantyterms

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19 hours ago, Grangur said:

@stingrayPete1977, @mcnach, OK, maybe I've been spoilt with instruments that haven't needed shims.

I would have thought a pocket routed to the correct depth wouldn't need one. Yet, I have to say I've fitted a fair few in older instruments.

I reserve the right to be wrong on occasions.

Same here - I would never expect to fit one on a new guitar.

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58 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Same here - I would never expect to fit one on a new guitar.

You wouldn't need to on a Musicman, they come fitted with one to save you doing it, lol.

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On 05/01/2018 at 17:49, dood said:

Agreed. 

 

There is absolutely no reason why a guitar of this quality should have anything like the issues you have photographed. I would send the guitar back on principle. Even more so if I received that sort of message about it 'never being perfect'. Nonsense. Ibanez UK would probably like to hear about this too. 

Id send a copy of this directly to Ibanez , exactly for this reason . They wont take kindly to a retailer telling customers that their instruments or QC isnt up to it . This is a poor show from Merchant City music as far as Im concerned and in no way should it nullify your warranty by removing the neck . Ive had Fenders and a Jackson that had to have the neck removed right off the bat as it was the only way to adjust the truss rod ! Ie there was no truss rod access at the headstock or where the neck meets body . Some Fender users will know what I mean . Also Ive never heard of people moaning about the fit and finish of Ibanez guitars or basses . 

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I had to contact Ibanez after an issue with PMT a couple of months ago. PMT were trying to fob me off basically. Ibanez were brilliant and it was sorted in very short order.

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