Muzz Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) Dunno if this has been covered particularly well previously, but following on from a sub-discussion on the Thunderbirds thread (nooooo, not Gerry Anderson/-related, sorry), what's the worst culprit for neck dive you've experienced? I'll start the ball rolling by submitting the Washburn B20-8, which literally anchored your left hand to the neck: if you let go, it plummeted to the floor. I'm always amazed it got past the first prototype stage, it was that bad... Edited February 25, 2017 by Muzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymondo Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 My MIJ Precision does that. I bought it new in'92 and it's never bothered me in the slightest. I don't see what all the fuss is about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I own, and still regularly perform with, an Epiphone EB-3: that is, one of the long-scale SG style basses, which are notorious on bass forums around the world for this trait. And rightly so: one of the easier solutions, of trying a strap with more grip, just means that the guitar still tips its head downwards, and just takes your shirt with it. I have, however, realised that my playing style has inadvertently fixed the problem for me. I play with my fingers almost exclusively (mostly because I just can't keep hold of picks) and tend to rest my thumb on the end of the neck. As a result, the weight of my right arm tends to sit across the body. This is remarkably effective at counteracting the amount of weight your fretting hand then has to support! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painy Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) The only bass I've ever experienced any significant amount of neck dive with was my old acoustic which was hardly surprising given the lack of weight in a hollow body to balance out the neck. Fortunately I only ever used it for learning songs sat down at home and never on a strap so a bit of a non issue really. Edited February 25, 2017 by Painy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I've played a lot of different bass guitars over the last 50 years. I still gig with my 1991 Gibson Thunderbird, I might gig it tonight. I've never experienced whatever this "neck dive" stuff is. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 (edited) I had a 78 Ricky on loan for a while, I don't know why they didn't just put the bridge on the opposite end so you could play it the other way up! Edited February 25, 2017 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1488022932' post='3245088'] I've played a lot of different bass guitars over the last 50 years. I still gig with my 1991 Gibson Thunderbird, I might gig it tonight. I've never experienced whatever this "neck dive" stuff is. Blue [/quote] Same, never knowingly experienced it, but I'm also failing to see the issue? The headstock falls towards the floor when you're not holding the neck? I can't think of a time when I'd be playing and not holding the neck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fftc Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 If a bass does experience neck dive can you not remedy the situation by just moving the rear strap button up a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 [quote name='Graham' timestamp='1488027952' post='3245145'] Same, never knowingly experienced it, but I'm also failing to see the issue? The headstock falls towards the floor when you're not holding the neck? I can't think of a time when I'd be playing and not holding the neck? [/quote] You're holding the neck up as you play you mean? From a technique point of view that's something I try to 'unteach' my students. Your fingers and thumb should only be dealing with fretting notes, not supporting the neck as well. Apologies if I've misunderstood what you are trying to say, but neck dive and the way people have to stop it (holding the neck or using the right arm to weigh the body down) is counterproductive. A very well balanced instrument is a joy to play in comparison Even better when it doesn't weigh a ton either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 [quote name='fftc' timestamp='1488028247' post='3245150'] If a bass does experience neck dive can you not remedy the situation by just moving the rear strap button up a bit? [/quote] Like balancing a seesaw, It's usually the neck button that needs to move further toward or up the neck. The latter in most cases of course is not possible unless you put a button on the back of the neck itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 [quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1488019745' post='3245044'] Dunno if this has been covered particularly well previously, but following on from a sub-discussion on the Thunderbirds thread (nooooo, not Gerry Anderson/-related, sorry), what's the worst culprit for neck dive you've experienced? I'll start the ball rolling by submitting the Washburn B20-8, which literally anchored your left hand to the neck: if you let go, it plummeted to the floor. I'm always amazed it got past the first prototype stage, it was that bad... [/quote] For me and the way I hang my strap any guitar with a headstock to some extent. It's probably why I dislike Fenders because there is the old "plank" routine going on as well where you can accidentally decapitate your mates on smaller stages. I can't say that I have a particular culprit in mind because I haven't played a great variety of instruments. That said; I got rid of my Squier fretless Jazz thirty years ago having got fed up with clonking the damned thing off band mates, walls, furnishings, tall dogs etc. I owned that for less than six months and the Vantage (below) replaced it. You'd think headless basses would be free of the problem but my Steinberger fiver does it a bit. Used to it now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1488026921' post='3245130'] I had a 78 Ricky on loan for a while, I don't know why they didn't just put the bridge on the opposite end so you could play it the other way up! [/quote] I wonder if that's due to Rickies having twin truss rods...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I had a couple of Epiphone Thunderbirds and the neck-dive was so much that you couldn`t take your left hand off of the neck without the headstock all but hitting the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 [quote name='dood' timestamp='1488030468' post='3245176'] You're holding the neck up as you play you mean? From a technique point of view that's something I try to 'unteach' my students. Your fingers and thumb should only be dealing with fretting notes, not supporting the neck as well. Apologies if I've misunderstood what you are trying to say, but neck dive and the way people have to stop it (holding the neck or using the right arm to weigh the body down) is counterproductive. A very well balanced instrument is a joy to play in comparison Even better when it doesn't weigh a ton either. [/quote] I don't know - will have to check next time I'm playing, but it's in my hand so surely stops any issue. I've either got well balanced instruments, or poor technique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fftc Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 [quote name='dood' timestamp='1488030546' post='3245178'] Like balancing a seesaw, It's usually the neck button that needs to move further toward or up the neck. The latter in most cases of course is not possible unless you put a button on the back of the neck itself. [/quote] My theory is that you are trying to find the balance point with 2 strap buttons. Usually the neck one doesn't have much scope for being moved while the rear button does. If you move the rear button up then you effectively move more of the mass of the body below the balance line between the 2 strap buttons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 The only one I have ever come across that does this is a Japanese bass that my guitarist buddy has. It's from the 80's, looks cross between Thunderbird and a Gibson Explorer in shape and is red and red/pink sparkle finish. It has no branding on the headstock (which is pointy a bit like a Jackson). He picked it up from Gumtree a few years ago, and was told that it was a Japanese 'custom' bass. It's pretty cheap and nasty looking to be honest, so I'm guessing it comes from the era where lots of knock-offs were coming out of Japan. Really heavy and does not balance on a strap at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bay Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I haven't been playing long but found the neck dive on an EB3 ruined the experience for me. I have now turned up an extension that shifts the strap mount behind them neck and cures the problem. I can on,y think they built the bodies for a lead guitar length and then didn't even think about balance before they stuck a standard bass length neck on. Real shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Worst neck-diver I ever had was a Guild B301 (back in the 70s). I made the mistake of trying it in the shop sitting down, so it was only the first time I played it with a band that I found out how neck heavy it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I've owned a few guitars where neck dive was a problem, but never on a bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 [quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1488035100' post='3245239'] You'd think headless basses would be free of the problem but my Steinberger fiver does it a bit. Used to it now though. [/quote] That's because it's bodyless too. I keep meaning to move the strap peg on my Hohner B2AV round to where it is on a Status Streamline, not to stop neck dive but to stop it turning face-down. My Thumbs are a bit neck-divey. I think a suede strap, or something with similar frictional qualities, would solve the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnesia Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Warwick Thumb 5 bolt-on. Hideous, way worse than the GIbson T-bird I had because of the weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) Imo there is no excuse for neck dive on an instrument. It shouldn't be designed that way and shouldn't be sold. Especially from Warwick. I played a black Corvette $$ 5 with a Wenge neck years ago. I was literally struggling to keep the neck up while playing. Awful.Why they put such heavy necks on such small bodies is baffling. Edited February 26, 2017 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 My previously mentioned Tokai Thunderbird, and also my Tokai Precision, I always assumed it was the much lighter body weight compared to the original design's heavier body that caused the imbalance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 (edited) [quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1488069977' post='3245647'] That's because it's bodyless too. I keep meaning to move the strap peg on my Hohner B2AV round to where it is on a Status Streamline, not to stop neck dive but to stop it turning face-down. My Thumbs are a bit neck-divey. I think a suede strap, or something with similar frictional qualities, would solve the problem. [/quote] I have a B2A that is perfectly balanced for the way I hang it from the strap. The pull out leg thingy is of no use when I'm sat down but then I can't play a conventional body shape from the seated position without comfort issues either. I would say that the additional weight of the five string neck (yes I know it's neck-through) is more to blame. If you compare the four string with the five string you will find a slightly larger body on the five which offsets the heavier neck up to a point. I am glad they didn't make it even heavier though to get the same fine balance as is found on the four stringers. You must be using the lower of the two bridge end strap buttons to get the problem that you describe. Is there a reason? It seems counter-intuitive otherwise. Edited February 26, 2017 by SpondonBassed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 [quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1488105335' post='3245793'] You must be using the lower of the two bridge end strap buttons to get the problem that you describe. Is there a reason? It seems counter-intuitive otherwise. [/quote] Must I? I'm not. It's because the centre of gravity is well forward of the neck strap pin location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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