Damonjames Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Before this goes too far and gets misunderstood, in my 4 and a half years in the U.K., I have had the pleasure of being in a band and regularly playing with 4 quality drummers. I have never been in band and thinking, "I wish the drummer could get it together". That's said, we all, myself especially, make slip ups. My question is, when a drummer miss hits and stalls for the microsecond that feels like a lifetime, do you A: keep time and hope the drummer catches up B: time your next note to fall with the next kick drum/snare/ Symbol and hope the guitars cotton on and shift back into line. Reason I ask, I find myself doing both of these at times, but sometimes whichever one I do feels wrong. Ultimately, it's live music, and we plough on, I'm just curious to know how you all manage this!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 B. It happens quite a lot in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Glare at the drummer so everyone else knows it was their fault Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Keep going as if it didn't happen, never look around and leave all post mortems until after the gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlequin74 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Roll with the punches, look like it was meant to happen, and make sure he buys the beet avter the gig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1477342631' post='3161638'] Keep going as if it didn't happen, never look around and leave all post mortems until after the gig. [/quote] ^This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Play your part as it should be played, regardless, but remember never to join in a jazz session again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Go with the drums. The guitars will work it out but the bass can never not be locked in with the drums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Playing at the less accomplished end of the scale myself I've been in bands that make most of the mistakes. Good or bad I tend to be the one to try to pull the band together when somone wanders of time. I think that sitting in the pocket as most of us do we are oten the only ones listening to all of the rest of the band. 9/10 times keeping time is the best thing to do. Something like a missed ending to a drum fill for example. If you and Mr drums skip a beat then the rest o the band are going to be thrown so don't go there, but thereare going to be times when one of the other band members goes off time with a drum mistake and I'd go with them even if it meant breaking time. I'd almost never not go with the vocals though, IMO that just sounds awful. Console yourself that the audience rarely notice that sort of mistake. Mostly I find that you and a drummer grow to learn each others ways and it becomes second nature. Edited October 25, 2016 by Phil Starr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HengistPod Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) A similar thing can happen when a drummer loses a stick. They become terribly confused when this happens, and their brain has to remember where the nearest spare is. This can cause a momentary lapse in beat. Anyway - you have to go with the drummer. What else are you going to do ... play the rest of the song 1/4 of a second in front/behind him? He's generally not even listening to what you're doing, and will glower and sulk if you don't step back into line after his mistake. As said above, re-evaluate where he's at, then fit in. If the guitarist is also looking confused, watch what he's playing and let him see where you are. Might take a couple of bars, but it'll come back together. (Also agree that if the singer isn't paying attention and is just hammering on, then everyone needs to fit back in with them.) And remember ... the average punter will NEVER notice anyway. Edited October 25, 2016 by HengistPod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I broke a stick at a gig recently. I kept going with it the wrong way round until a section with just kick drum thumping, at which point I kept my foot going, and grabbed my spare stick. I knew I'd gone slightly quieter for a couple of beats while I got the stick, but it was definitely in time. I've even watched video footage, it was no big deal When it happened the bassist started twatting his muted strings slightly ahead of the beat, and glaring at me, as though he thought I'd slowed down. At the end of the song he said "what the f*** happened there?" and at the end of the set he said "That was alright apart from that massive f***-up. You need to get some stick holders" If you could handle it in a slightly more sensitive way, you might be evening out some collective bassist karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I'm not understanding some of these posts. So the drummer drops a stick, has a brain fart and looses the beat or stops to scratch his bum in the middle of a number and you follow with the resulting cock-up? That is the worst thing any of you can do. If one band member makes a mistake the rest of the band carries the number until that player gets back on track. It isn't a problem if one of the players, even the drummer, stops playing for a bar or 2 while getting their bearings, but the train wreck of everyone trying to follow a mistake is not what should be happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Our drummer sometimes loses his way in the middle section of Jump (VH) but if I stayed with him that would mean we would both be out of time with the gtr solo and subsequent keys solo part so I've had to decide to remain in time and hope he listens and picks it back up again from me so we all end up in the right place at the right time. It's not really a flexible gtr solo so the gtr is pretty much locked in to a particular pattern. On other stuff I've done with other errant drummers i can usually adapt to keep in with them, even put a brief pause in if necessary to let them catch up if they have gone off too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmcclelland Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 This is why listening to everything and knowing how aware each individual is is important and as it's your job to link the rhythm with the melody, when something goes wrong with one of them, I'm sorry but it's your job to keep it together. Ploughing on and ignoring it or letting them suffer is like a footballer refusing to chase a bad pass or a rugby player refusing to pick up the ball after someone's fumbled it. You're a team. It's stuff like that that makes it so. A and B both have their place but it's making that decision in a split second, or even automatically that's the key. The balls is that when things do go wrong, it can often be the bass player that the audience looks at but that's just part of the gig. What can be very effective though, and seamless, is to leave a note hanging and pick up on the next kick or snare. Maybe then play the same phrase the second time round so it sounds deliberate. The rhythm may have dropped for a split second but the bass didn't. There's no real way of practicing this though and especially not at home with recorded music for obvious reasons. It just comes with experience and communication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusee pee Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 On the rare occasions that our drummer loses a beat we always go with him. It's more noticeable for the drums to change than the rest of us, so where he goes we go. Fortunately, 99% of the time he's on the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I think it depends on who's more dominant between the bassist and drummer in the band, I've played in bands where I'd dig in and dominate where the count is and I've played with drummers that rarely drop a beat that would either sort themselves out without thinking about it or if it's gone to crap they've took the dominant roll and squared it back up. As long as you have someone in the band that takes control then it's fine. Just like jam nights, you need at least one person in each group that knows the song if the rest are jamming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1477385394' post='3161804'] I'm not understanding some of these posts. So the drummer drops a stick, has a brain fart and looses the beat or stops to scratch his bum in the middle of a number and you follow with the resulting cock-up? That is the worst thing any of you can do. If one band member makes a mistake the rest of the band carries the number until that player gets back on track. It isn't a problem if one of the players, even the drummer, stops playing for a bar or 2 while getting their bearings, but the train wreck of everyone trying to follow a mistake is not what should be happening. [/quote] No. I played go far to long with a drummer who used to throw in the odd 4 1/2 beat fill. You can't ignore that. If you thump in on the one while he is still doing the fill the whole world notices. If the band are listening to each other this is just a minor pause. There will be a few sideways glances and dancers will notice a hiccup but everything will carry on. You can't have the bass banging away in one time and the drums banging away in another. If the drummer is regularly dropping or adding half beats on his fills, it's time to find another band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 If it's live you'll be surprised by how few mistakes the audience notice apart from those who are obsessive fans of the band. IME unless the song comes grinding to a halt 30 seconds after the start very few people in the audience will actually notice that anything has gone wrong. They certainly won't spot the occasional fluffed noted or dropped beat. As musicians our job is to carry on playing and act like nothing has gone wrong even when it has. If it's a recording you can just go for another take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1477387632' post='3161833']... You can't have the bass banging away in one time and the drums banging away in another... [/quote] No..? Really..? [media]http://youtu.be/uuvrgyIQWJw[/media] [spoiler] From Wikipedia... [color=#252525][font=sans-serif]'...In making "Rubber Shirt", Zappa combined a track of [/font][/color][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Bozzio"]Terry Bozzio[/url][color=#252525][font=sans-serif] playing drums in one musical setting with one of Patrick O'Hearn playing bass in another, and totally different, musical setting. The tracks differed in time signature and in tempo. Zappa referred to this technique as [/font][/color][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenochrony"]xenochrony[/url][color=#252525][font=sans-serif]...'[/spoiler][/font][/color] Edited October 25, 2016 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 You guys are playing the song. Not the drummers version of it. If he cocks up you expect the rest of the band, 3 or 4 other players, to switch and cover the mistake? So the whole band risks sounding bad on the off chance that they will be able to cover for one player? That's not very professional! And yes, anyone that can't play in time and successfully count from 1 to 4 should be fired immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 "A friend helps you get up if you fall, a good friend first makes fun of you and laughs before getting you up!" That's pretty much what i do, there's no need to cover up for mistakes, it's live music and it happens all the time, when someone gets something wrong i laugh with him and carry on. Sometimes it's needed to re-adjust the timing and sometimes it's just a case of keeping the pace until they caught up with the tempo, no right answer to the OP's question. This is valid for every band member (guitarists hitting wrong notes, singer forgetting lirycs, and yes even the bassplayer hitting a full-step down note with the biggest conviction right in the begining of Purple Rain's chorus, ouch!). It happens, embrace it, let the audience know it happened, they're not stupid and there will be some musos around that know it. Smile and carry on. One of my pet hates are musicians (in fact, singers...) that can't handle a mistake and burst on stage with a flaming look and angry comments about it. I had one of these speciments once, after one gig the band was fed up with it and put him against a wall and let him know that if he wouldn't stop it he would be left alone in that band. Worked like a charm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Listen to you guys. We fired our last drummer for a number of reasons, but insofar as following him? Get out of town. We asked him what he actually listened to when we were playing ("Just the drums, maybe the vocals"), which we followed up asking by whether he actually knew how the songs went after three or four years of playing them (cue embarrassing silence). There were many times where I just wanted to stop the song and start over. Dropped sticks, fills on bar three, hardware failure, timing etc. He's a lovely, lovely guy, but no way should he have been in the engine room. By the end we just expected things to go awry, so we just kept going in the hope he would realise where the song was and catch up. Our guitarist summed it all up quite succinctly by saying the difference between Blink182 and Busted is Travis Barker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Laugh... it is going to be such a rare occasion that you can't legislate for it. If this is not one in a gazillion, then change the drummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Part of the fun of playing live is trying to put the drummer off with off beat notes, reggae fills and general knobing around, when that goes well that's when the audience enjoy watching it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1477342248' post='3161633'] Glare at the drummer so everyone else knows it was their fault [/quote] This. It's the only sensible solution to such a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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