FuNkShUi Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Keep going, and wait for him to get back in time. I don't understand how or why you would do it any other way. The song is the song, so would 3 (or more depending on band members) of you stop and try to re-adjust to whatever part of the song the drummer thinks he is on? This could lead to even bigger a cock up if all three of you aren't really sure where the drummer thinks he is. Or do the three of you carry on, and wait for the drummer slip back in (hopefully relatively smoothly)? Yes. Do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuNkShUi Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1477399177' post='3161958'] This. It's the only sensible solution to such a problem [/quote] Ha! That works too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Maybe people are reading too much into this. The OP is pretty clear about the situation. "Microsecond". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Yeah, but a microsecond is all it takes to throw a song off course. On occasion, you'll not recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I'm a drummer; have been for nearly fifty years. I've got the 'dropped stick' routine down to a fine art (loaded stick bag suspended from low tom, of course...). It happens, maybe even more in my declining years, that I 'freeze' at a critical moment. A good example would be Midnight Oil's 'Beds Are Burning', which features a short solo drum fill before the last chorus. We've played this for years; decades even. On one occasion, for no real reason, I 'froze' at the entry of the fill-solo. My band mates turned on their heels, horrified. Experience counts, however. The bubble broke, I hit the flam on the low tom for the last beat, and, as one, we all belted into the chorus,all the better for having had a heavily pregnant pause. Wiped brows all round when the song ended. I've not done it, deliberately nor by accident, since, but it was darned effective. Sometimes one can come up smelling of roses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Yes. Maintain eye contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) I bet this guy wished he had miss hit, or totally missed. Skip to 00:32 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6lWTpOH3q8&feature=youtu.be&t=30s[/media] Edited October 25, 2016 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 A decent drummer will still hold it together when a stick is dropped and not miss a beat 99 times out of a hundred. If they're dropping sticks often then they need to sort something out or get sacked. Likewise if they are throwing in fills that pull the band out of time they need to go. One bad fill in a million is OK but if they're doing at least one a gig then forget it. Like JTUK says, this sort of thing should be so infrequent that it's not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Our drummer is more than good, so if he drops a beat - which is a rarity anyway - we know he`ll be back in with the song within a couple more beats so we just keep going. At the pace we play there`s no point in all trying to change to what`s happened, especially when we know how quickly he`ll sort it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamWoodBass Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I've played with a lot of drummers of varying abilities but consistently decent time keepers. To be completely honest my reaction in this situation is often down to the gig. I always try to remember that a lot of mistakes (by any of the band members myself included) are 1000 times more obvious to the band members as they are to the general audience. Of course every gig has the jazz police but most of the time the guys that heckle are the ones that aren't gigging themselves. In a pub or jam etc I'd tend to follow the drummer to make sure the groove doesn't fall over, usually trying to be as subtle as possible to save their embarrassment (accent the down beat for a few bars to make sure we're locked in). Often you're playing tunes you don't know so well when someone shouts turn to page 475 in the Real Book 2 for example. On a more pro gig I'd stick with the band. 99.9% of the time the drummer will be experienced enough to figure out their mistake in a fraction of a beat and correct it. No one loses sleep over it and the tune carries on. Of course there's always the awkward 0.1% where the drummer knows best and gets stubborn... I've been in similar situations we're I've gotten lost in the chart while playing a tune I don't know and dropped a beat or come in too early etc. One time I did a gig where I had a total mental block and completely forgot the intro (which embarrassingly is also the bass line) to Higher and Higher. To this day I can't believe that happened! Keys player to the rescue and I was back in, dignity bruised a bit but life goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Its the whole bands responsibility to keep time, so If the drummer slips up its up to the drummer to get back on the one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 YOU keep the groove going. Occasionally it will mean going with the drummer, but mostly with the dominant thing going on - vocals or solo usually. Whichever keeps the flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1477385394' post='3161804'] I'm not understanding some of these posts. So the drummer drops a stick, has a brain fart and looses the beat or stops to scratch his bum in the middle of a number and you follow with the resulting cock-up? That is the worst thing any of you can do. If one band member makes a mistake the rest of the band carries the number until that player gets back on track. It isn't a problem if one of the players, even the drummer, stops playing for a bar or 2 while getting their bearings, but the train wreck of everyone trying to follow a mistake is not what should be happening. [/quote] Have to agree with this, anything else has the potential to cause a wreck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Sorry. If the drummer hasn't sorted himself by the first beat of the next bar, then I'm going with him. The rest of the band should be communicating by this point and everyone will shift. The same happens if it's a bodged fill, the musicians should spot this and make adjustment there and then before the first beat of the next bar. That's always been what happens in every band I've played in. No one carries on regardless. Everyone listens and watches. Edited October 27, 2016 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1477563319' post='3162963'] Sorry. If the drummer hasn't sorted himself by the first beat of the next bar, then I'm going with him. The rest of the band should be communicating by this point and everyone will shift. The same happens if it's a bodged fill, the musicians should spot this and make adjustment there and then before the first beat of the next bar. That's always been what happens in every band I've played in. No one carries on regardless. Everyone listens and watches. [/quote] Yep! The most sensible attitude. There's no right answer, sometimes the drummer can pick it up and other times it just isn't possible. Things like hitting a note after a pause, if the drummer takes a bit more time the rest of the band has to wait so they all hit the note at the same time. If a stick is dropped mid verse/chorus then the drummer grabs another and picks up the song. Everybody need to listen to and look at the band mates and this situations will be solved quickly and naturaly. If the drummer is so bad that he can't pick up the tempo/rythm after a miss then he's not prepared to gig live and needs to get back to the practice room (this is valid to every musician). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Unbelievable!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1477565334' post='3162979'] Unbelievable!!! [/quote] Yes, I agree. If a Drummer (or any musician for that matter) can't sort him/herself out pronto, they are on the wrong gig. Might be alright for a duo, you ain't got no choice but to follow the Drummer, but in large bands, Orchestras ? Chaos. If there are problems with Drummers messing up, the MD would direct the band and if need be, follow the MD. Good grief can you imagine letting 60 members loose in an Orchestra ? Apart from the Conductor feeling a redundant lonely person. Can you imagine the hard work the next day, sending out 60 odd P45's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I've never had the problem when playing drums at a gig, but at rehearsals when I'm trying out fills I might mess up. For example we're playing in 7/4 (my theory's not great, but it must be 7/4 or 7/8) and I'm trying to come up with new fills, I play one that's 8 beats instead of 7 by accident. If the band just carried n regardless I might be able to get back on track, but it just seems natural for them to fall in line with me. If this happened at a gig it'd be way better than me stopping for a second while I figure out how to get back in line with the band I play with a singer who struggles with timing, and I often drop a beat or two just to follow the singer. The other guys in the band know we're always going to follow the singer, and it generally works really well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) In my early days playing in French variety bands, there were many 'dep' occasions where I'd be enrolled in a formation with only approximate notions as to the real score to be playing. In one particular 'band', the band leader was also the wholesale supplier of the beers to the events, and so had leverage to be the chosen band for the event. Couesnon (the bloke's name...) would play sax or trumpet, his son on accordion or keys. A couple of regulars on guitar and bass, with whoever was available on drums. All very well, as they mostly knew the repertoire, but very disconcerting to find that they had only sketchy knowledge of how the tunes were supposed to go, and, in all evidence, had never, themselves, tried to dance to 'em. Missed beats, extended sections, doubled (or almost doubled...) key melody lines; it was all over the shop, even from verse to verse. As they had been playing together for quite some years, all (or most...) of these oddities had melded into, for them, a quite smooth performance, as they tended to make the same hops, skips and jumps mostly together, but for the first few sessions, it was difficult (read 'impossible'...) to anticipate quite what they would do. My technique at the time was rather unversed in the specific notions of 'musette' (the style of music from pre- and post-war crooner-jazz accordion stuff popular in France, and with a strong following, even today...). I adopted a bastardised soft disco beat, with a hi-hat lift for lightness, and a soft-ish 'poom tah-tah poom tick' for most of the 4/4 stuff. I would play on, regardless of their antics, with the firm intention of keeping the dancers (and there were many...) on the floor from having to break stride (or break a leg..!) when the song slipped. The 'pulse' came from the drums; anyone singing along to these very well-known melodies would have to adjust, themselves, to the gymnastics on stage, but the beat would go on, and the couples gyrate smoothly all evening. I never had complaints; I'm pretty sure they didn't even notice, any of 'em, and the floor was always appreciative and generous in their applause at the end of each segued section. I've not changed my opinion since. The rhythm is king; if the drummer drops it, the band plays on, and [i]vice versa[/i]. It would never do to have other members trying to adjust; that can only make a busted beat break down even further. Edited October 27, 2016 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamWoodBass Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1477564330' post='3162973'] If the drummer is so bad that he can't pick up the tempo/rythm after a miss then he's not prepared to gig live and needs to get back to the practice room (this is valid to every musician). [/quote] I agree with this in the context of a paid gig for sure, if it's just an informal jam though I wouldn't lose sleep over mistakes. [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1477566687' post='3162988'] If there are problems with Drummers messing up, the MD would direct the band and if need be, follow the MD. Good grief can you imagine letting 60 members loose in an Orchestra ? Apart from the Conductor feeling a redundant lonely person. Can you imagine the hard work the next day, sending out 60 odd P45's. [/quote] Totally agree with this, I've led bands before where there's been a dep (friend of a friend of a cousin who once saw a photo of a drum on facebook etc). It was an emergency and we just went with it. It was hard work to say the least. Fortunately the band was not a regular band, just a one off thing for an event so no damage done the reputation of the band. The rest of the band were all guys I'd played with regularly so there were no issues there. The dep guy however just hadn't learned the tunes, missed a lot of segways and just generally wasn't able to get into a groove (especially irritating when the chart says "Reggae feel" and he starts playing some sort of ridiculous 2/4 circus beat. WTF???). Needless to say I never used him again. Nice enough dude but not ready for gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1477570231' post='3163027'] In my early days playing in French variety bands, there were many 'dep' occasions where I'd be enrolled in a formation with only approximate notions as to the real score to be playing. In one particular 'band', the band leader was also the wholesale supplier of the beers to the events, and so had leverage to be the chosen band for the event. Couesnon (the bloke's name...) would play sax or trumpet, his son on accordion or keys. A couple of regulars on guitar and bass, with whoever was available on drums. All very well, as they mostly knew the repertoire, but very disconcerting to find that they had only sketchy knowledge of how the tunes were supposed to go, and, in all evidence, had never, themselves, tried to dance to 'em. Missed beats, extended sections, doubled (or almost doubled...) key melody lines; it was all over the shop, even from verse to verse. As they had been playing together for quite some years, all (or most...) of these oddities had melded into, for them, a quite smooth performance, as they tended to make the same hops, skips and jumps mostly together, but for the first few sessions, it was difficult (read 'impossible'...) to anticipate quite what they would do. My technique at the time was rather unversed in the specific notions of 'musette' (the style of music from pre- and post-war crooner-jazz accordion stuff popular in France, and with a strong following, even today...). I adopted a bastardised soft disco beat, with a hi-hat lift for lightness, and a soft-ish 'poom tah-tah poom tick' for most of the 4/4 stuff. I would play on, regardless of their antics, with the firm intention of keeping the dancers (and there were many...) on the floor from having to break stride (or break a leg..!) when the song slipped. The 'pulse' came from the drums; anyone singing along to these very well-known melodies would have to adjust, themselves, to the gymnastics on stage, but the beat would go on, and the couples gyrate smoothly all evening. I never had complaints; I'm pretty sure they didn't even notice, any of 'em, and the floor was always appreciative and generous in their applause at the end of each segued section. I've not changed my opinion since. The rhythm is king; if the drummer drops it, the band plays on, and [i]vice versa[/i]. It would never do to have other members trying to adjust; that can only make a busted beat break down even further. [/quote] Nice little story. Edited October 27, 2016 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 [quote name='AdamWoodBass' timestamp='1477570579' post='3163033']...missed a lot of segways... [/quote] [sharedmedia=core:attachments:166776] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamWoodBass Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1477570934' post='3163041'] [/quote] LOL spelling fail *facepalm* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1477570803' post='3163038'] Nice little story. [/quote] [sharedmedia=core:attachments:167485] ...and I think I've already related the 'mesadventure' with 'Catherine et son Ensemble'..! Frightening stuff on the night, but hilarious after the event, thinking back. So many tales; so little time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 [quote name='AdamWoodBass' timestamp='1477571063' post='3163044'] LOL spelling fail *facepalm* [/quote] Yes, but did you notice how some of us carried on and waited for you to catch up? True professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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