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Kex

Am I the only one that gets annoyed by adverts for fake Fenders

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1464366376' post='3058942']
No I did see that (hence the comment) so would seem Mr Hall has scared you, but seems he's not scary enough to worry eBay or the numerous Bass gear forums on Facebook?
[/quote]

This, for many of us here, is the equivalent of 'Groundhog Day'. There is no mileage left in this tack.

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[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1464339654' post='3058535']
You don't think there's any chance that the reason why the residual value in a Rick is better because there's less chance of it being a rip-off then?


[/quote]

Agree totally, they are certainly more exclusive and I think that is the way Rickenbacker want it to be, there is nothing wrong with that business model, Fender's model has to be somewhat different being as there are already so many copies out there, by embracing the copies but producing high quality examples of their own they still create that exclusivity.

Despite the endless supply of copies out there a USA Precision or Jazz still has good residuals but I would hazard a guess that more people lust after a Fender than lust after a Rickenbacker because more people have played a Fender type guitar than a Rickenbacker type guitar. So Fender shift more units.

Neither approach is wrong but Mr Hall's approach surprises me given how good his instruments seem to be (from my experience I hasten to add!)

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There's so many Fenders on the market these days compared to 30 years ago when we only had one... Fender USA.
Now we have have Japanese, Mexicans, Nate Mendels, Dee Dee Ramones and lord knows what else.
The 1963 Limelight I bought from Discreet, I have no intention of passing off as the real Mc Coy, as I also will not try to defraud someone by passing my Fender badged Squier bitsa as an original .
Frankly, I have more important things to worry about. <_<

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1464263405' post='3057993']
Limelight now produce basses with their own logo applied.

[url="http://classicandcoolguitars.co.uk/portfolio/limelight0017663pbass/"]http://classicandcoo...ht0017663pbass/[/url]
[/quote]

For some reason this makes me very happy. It's also a really nice logo.

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I do worry how these copy basses will be sold used in about 20 yrs time - when no one remembers the real story. Scope for plenty of buyer confusion I guess.

Anyway I worry enough trying to buy allegedly original basses used - and especially old Fender basses.

Edited by drTStingray

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[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1464377896' post='3059073']
For some reason this makes me very happy. It's also a really nice logo.
[/quote]

I'm very glad you think so. :)

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1464338931' post='3058519']
Quite. I wonder how many people who are over-reacting to this issue are also worried about peak oil, population pressure, resource depletion, pollution and climate change? How dare people have the effrontery to apparently get something for nothing when we're all going to hell in handbag!

I've owned basses with applied F Decals and I've owned genuine Fender basses too. FMIC certainly haven't lost out as far as my investment in genuine Fender instruments is concerned. Right, can't hang around here all day - got to get down to Oxford Street to buy a fake watch, some fake trainers, a knock-off handbag and some iffy perfume before The Rapture kicks in. Byeee!
[/quote]

Since you asked: I've never owned a Fender nor am I ever likely to; too expensive. I do own a bass with an F decal; it is a bitsa and evidently not a factory Fender (I didn't put the logo on it). I wouldn't buy one with a bogus logo if it was easily mistaken for a proper Fender, but since I've no intention of buying a real Fender anyway...

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[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1464368090' post='3058965']
This, for many of us here, is the equivalent of 'Groundhog Day'. There is no mileage left in this tack.
[/quote] Than why bother replying in the first place !

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1464383626' post='3059147']
Than why bother replying in the first place !
[/quote]


Love your friendly attitude, you certainly know how to endear yourself.

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[quote name='Kex' timestamp='1464383626' post='3059147']
Than why bother replying in the first place !
[/quote]

Is this the way you always reply to those hoping to help you with a reply to your queries..? Hmm...
You asked why Rics are not allowed in the Marketplace. I thought to clear that up, by supplying the reasoning. Is there anything else you're unclear about..? We wouldn't want any stone left unturned. Make the most of it, whilst I am still in a reasonably good temper; it may not last.

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[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1464330131' post='3058428']
So you should buy a Fender if you want a Fender logo. Fixing a Fender logo on a non Fender bass is theft of Fender's Intellectual Property blah, blah...
[/quote]

If you'd read the post you quoted you'd have noticed I haven't done that, the only bass I have that carries a Fender logo has a Mex Fender neck on it, the logo is on the flat part at the end, presumably because a Mexican Fender employee put it there, not me.

I really wouldn't have the patience or inclination to try to fake a Fender neck, I just think the logo is part of the look of the headstock and it looks good. I don't even like the current decal to be honest, I only really like the ones they used in the '70s with the bigger blocky font.

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[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1464367179' post='3058954']
Do people really genuinely believe that the Fender logo is so much more aesthetically appealing than the Squier logo? I gig both a fender and a Squier (or I used to, I am pretty well all ibanez and G&L these days), and I would say aesthetically the logos are very similar. I know several people that have changed the S logo for an F as they wanted it to look like a 'proper' fender, but the idea it actually looks better seems odd.
[/quote]

If I played a Squier I doubt I'd replace the logo with an F-decal. In fact, the Squier logo can be more desirable in certain circles where you're only considered a 'proper' gigging bass player if you play a Squier bass through a Peavey combo, or some other workhorse rig. Genuine Fenders and expensive lightweight gear are seen as a bit gauche and probably means you're a weekend warrior. :D

Edit: Wasn't there a picture of Trotsky on here just now? Or did the Politburo airbrush it out??

Edited by discreet

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1464386552' post='3059181']
If I played a Squier I doubt I'd replace the logo with an F-decal. In fact, the Squier logo can be more desirable in certain circles where you're only considered a 'proper' gigging bass player if you play a Squier bass through a Peavey combo, or some other workhorse rig. Genuine Fenders and expensive lightweight gear are seen as a bit gauche and probably means you're a weekend warrior. :D

Edit: Wasn't there a picture of Trotsky on here just now? Or did the Politburo airbrush it out??
[/quote]

And my post has gone too.
Oh well, easy come easy go! :lol:

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1464386552' post='3059181']the Squier logo can be more desirable in certain circles where you're only considered a 'proper' gigging bass player if you play a Squier bass through a Peavey combo, or some other workhorse rig. Genuine Fenders and expensive lightweight gear are seen as a bit gauche and probably means you're a weekend warrior. :D[/quote]

For about three years I was gigging a Squier Jazz strung with flats through a GB Shuttle 6 into a Schroeder 1212L. Must've confused a few.

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1464386552' post='3059181']
Genuine Fenders and expensive lightweight gear are seen as a bit gauche and probably means you're a weekend warrior. :D
[/quote]

That`s me rumbled then :unsure:

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[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1464388208' post='3059205']
That`s me rumbled then :unsure:
[/quote]

Punk bands not included... also, it's not my opinion - it's said in 'certain circles'. ;)

Edited by discreet

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Squier = low cost Fender made in China nowadays (or such)
Squire = a knight's errand boy

Since we are being obnoxious....

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I actually find it a bit cringeworthy to see a fender logo being put onto a non fender instrument. People can make excuses and say otherwise, but the sole reason for doing it is to pass the instrument off as a 'real' fender. That doesn't sit right with me. Leave as is, leave blank or put a custom decal there if you must.

I think I would be a wee bit embarrassed if I was knowingly playing one with a fake decal.

I must say though, I also find the 'funny' mock ups of fender logos really cringey too! 😂

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[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1464417973' post='3059283']
I must say though, I also find the 'funny' mock ups of fender logos really cringey too! 😂
[/quote]

Aww, I thought the Imprecision one was quite well thought out as a double meaning - the origins of the bass in question and my bass playing ;)

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[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1464417973' post='3059283']
I actually find it a bit cringeworthy to see a fender logo being put onto a non fender instrument. People can make excuses and say otherwise, but the sole reason for doing it is to pass the instrument off as a 'real' fender. That doesn't sit right with me. Leave as is, leave blank or put a custom decal there if you must.

I think I would be a wee bit embarrassed if I was knowingly playing one with a fake decal.

I must say though, I also find the 'funny' mock ups of fender logos really cringey too!
[/quote]

Who are we trying to pass this fake off to? Most of the audience don't even realise we play bass, you just have a bigger guitar than the other guy(s) in the band, most wouldn't even know if it was a Fender or a Gibson but may hazard a guess at one or other based on them being the two most known brands. So maybe to other musicians? Possibly, there is certainly music snobbery out there, serious bands are expected to play serious instruments and other than a few select Squier's they are not generally regarded as pro end instruments. It maybe unfair and incorrect but unfortunately it is brand image, there are probably still bands out there where if don't use a Fender you don't get the gig!

I don't get the preciousness over the decal, surely for those people annoyed by a bass with a replica decal fitted that should also stretch to the many high end copies sold under differing brand names, the likes of Limelight....blatant Fender clones, Lakland, Shuker, Tokai etc all with instruments that are obviously hugely influenced by Fender basses, if you are offended by these copies your choice of instrument ends up being very limited.

Most guitars and basses out there have designs lifted from those first Fender and Gibson electric guitars which is testament to the fact that Leo Fender, in particular, got it so right first time

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[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1464430845' post='3059390'] Who are we trying to pass this fake off to? Most of the audience don't even realise we play bass, you just have a bigger guitar than the other guy(s) in the band, most wouldn't even know if it was a Fender or a Gibson but may hazard a guess at one or other based on them being the two most known brands. So maybe to other musicians? Possibly, there is certainly music snobbery out there, serious bands are expected to play serious instruments and other than a few select Squier's they are not generally regarded as pro end instruments. It maybe unfair and incorrect but unfortunately it is brand image, there are probably still bands out there where if don't use a Fender you don't get the gig! I don't get the preciousness over the decal, surely for those people annoyed by a bass with a replica decal fitted that should also stretch to the many high end copies sold under differing brand names, the likes of Limelight....blatant Fender clones, Lakland, Shuker, Tokai etc all with instruments that are obviously hugely influenced by Fender basses, if you are offended by these copies your choice of instrument ends up being very limited. Most guitars and basses out there have designs lifted from those first Fender and Gibson electric guitars which is testament to the fact that Leo Fender, in particular, got it so right first time [/quote]

I think there is a massive difference between being influenced by, and literally using the brand name and logo.

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The weirdo I wrote about in the 'quitting bands' thread was trying to sell a totally fake Stratocaster for a couple of months. This thing was laughably bad. Somebody took a no-name sub-Squier-Affinity Strat and put a decal on the headstock, complete with 'Made in the USA' footnote. Weirdo guy was also a bit thick, so even when I told him it was fake he kept believing it was worth a lot of money, purely because of the decal. One of these guys that really fell for the label, even though he couldn't objectively describe why or how it was a quality instrument. It just wasn't sinking in...

Some '70s Rickenbacker copies are pretty much perfect replicas of the real thing. Would I take a '70s faker over a real Rick? Would I be pissed off if I discovered that the TRC had been swapped out, and my '70s Rickenbacker was a Gherson, CMI or similar? Hard to say. I think the issue now is that fakes and clones of any guitar or bass are now almost certainly of a lower quality. Guys like Billy Gibbons might get their luthier pals to make them replica Gibsons that are better than an off-the-shelf Les Paul, but those Chinese copies and fakes are synonymous with corner cutting and lower quality build. The Chinese manufacturers are not building with the intent to make a high quality instrument. They are simply trying to deceive the end buyer, by presenting a surprisingly cheaper alternative. There is no incentive for them to build a better product, unlike the Lawsuit manufacturers of the '70s.

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When I stuck a replacement Jazz neck on a P body I made my own decal.

[url="http://s970.photobucket.com/user/gelfin5959/media/20160122_141517_zpsp1mjwkmp.jpg.html"][/url]

Edited by gelfin

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[quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1464417973' post='3059283']
I must say though, I also find the 'funny' mock ups of fender logos really cringey too! ��
[/quote]

Sorry :( didn't really know what else to do: [url="http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac129/mike_howell1/Build%20Your%20Own%20P%20Bass/IMG_0809_zpse03yzyh7.jpg"]http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac129/mike_howell1/Build%20Your%20Own%20P%20Bass/IMG_0809_zpse03yzyh7.jpg[/url]

Edited by Mykesbass

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