EssentialTension Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1449883474' post='2927802'] ... I'm not a better player than anyone ...[/quote] We are all better than someone unless we are the worst one of all ... ... and if no one is better than anyone else then Jaco is not better than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 And with Jaco being dead you still have the opportunity to "make it" and read up on his history thus allowing you an opinion on Jaco's mindless noodling or even go on to be rated as a better and more influential bassist than Jaco himself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project_c Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='neilp' timestamp='1449914191' post='2927874'] With respect, no-one said that Jaco's music was a load of old bollocks. I don't particularly enjoy listening to him, in the main, and I do think there's a touch of "emperor's new clothes" about him harmonically, but I never denied his technical skill or influence - whether for good or not is another matter. I do resent the implication that we need to qualify to have an opinion on a matter of taste. Bored now, let the Bass Police have their way [/quote] That would be a fair point, but a statement like 'Jaco sounds like someone noodling in a guitar shop' is nothing to do with taste. There is a difference between 'i don't like the way it sounds', and 'it's just a load of random notes that my aunt could come up with'. I have opinions about many things. I think replacing the closet bend on my toilet is boring and requires little skill, but I would still rather get a plumber to do it, because I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to plumbing. Both the plumber and I are entitled to our opinions about my toilet, and on an internet forum, we have an equal voice. But ultimately the plumber's opinion is a lot more valuable than mine, and I know who I'd rather trust to clear the terrifying blockage in my house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 If bassists noodling in guitar shops sound like an imitation of him (usually a poor imitation), is that not just indicative of the level of influence he has had? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) You missed the essential bit - "sounds like". Quite often jazz musicians do disappear up their own cleverness and end up SOUNDING exactly like that. However clever they may know themselves to be, in the end music happens in the ears of the audience. Last point I would make is that you give the plumbers opinion weight on the basis of your own ignorance. You don't presume his ignorance on the basis of him not agreeing with you on a matter of taste. REALLY bored now Edited December 12, 2015 by neilp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Riva Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 So in summary, Your Honour... It is entirely possible not to like a musician/artist and their music/playing and still have the wherewithal to respect their talent. It should also be entirely possible to state that one does not like a certain musician/artist without being made to feel that this opinion is somehow not worthy (though when offering such an opinion it may be better to try and find a better/different construct than, say, "aimless noodling" or "Emperor's new clothes"..). Straight from the court of Judge Fudge.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1449914466' post='2927879'] We are all better than someone unless we are the worst one of all ... [/quote] That'll be me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project_c Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='neilp' timestamp='1449918885' post='2927927'] You missed the essential bit - "sounds like". Quite often jazz musicians do disappear up their own cleverness and end up SOUNDING exactly like that. However clever they may know themselves to be, in the end music happens in the ears of the audience. Last point I would make is that you give the plumbers opinion weight on the basis of your own ignorance. You don't presume his ignorance on the basis of him not agreeing with you on a matter of taste. REALLY bored now [/quote] None of this makes sense to me (apart from the 'bored' bit), but let's agree to disagree. I'm off to unblock my toilet, and noodle on my bass. Musically, both of those activities will probably sound the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='project_c' timestamp='1449917914' post='2927912'] That would be a fair point, but a statement like 'Jaco sounds like someone noodling in a guitar shop' is nothing to do with taste. There is a difference between 'i don't like the way it sounds', and 'it's just a load of random notes that my aunt could come up with'. [/quote] Refer to the OP: [quote] to me it was just disjointed... It sounded like I'd just walked into any guitar shop in the world... Aimless noodling... [/quote] The operative words are "to me". It's an OPINION, as in "I don't like the way it sounds", not a statement of fact like "Jaco sounds like...". You're having a pop at the OP on the basis of your misinterpretation of what he actually said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 The OP then asked for some guidance, "Anyone got any suggestions that may change my mind?" which I feel shows his openness to being swayed in his initial take on JP's playing. That sounds pretty open minded to me and the point of the thread, which has been met (numerous suggestions having been offered). Maybe we should now wait and see if, after subsequent listening, the OP thinks any differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1449925376' post='2928030'] Maybe we should now wait and see if, after subsequent listening, the OP thinks any differently. [/quote] Oh how very considerate of you. I say burn him, stone him, tie him up and chuck him in a river, give him a chinese burn, I dunno, let's do something. My torch is lit and my pitchfork sharpened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 This thread must make this BC Forum look so inviting to new joiners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 When it comes down to it, I have never met a half decent bass player (regardless of genre) in the real world who isn’t a Jaco fan or at least appreciative of his contribution to music / modern bass playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='Maude' timestamp='1449925966' post='2928038'] Oh how very considerate of you. [/quote]I like to be the voice of reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1449926621' post='2928049'] When it comes down to it, I have never met a half decent bass player (regardless of genre) in the real world who isn’t a Jaco fan or at least appreciative of his contribution to music / modern bass playing. [/quote] And another insinuation that if you aren't a fan or don't appreciate Jacos contribution then you can't even be a half decent player. The comments of others, in and out of the music business, would suggest I'm at least a half decent player yet Jaco has never registered on my radar. I have, since this thread, listened to him but along with Stanley Clarke his music makes me whince. Whether he's 'all that' or not I don't care, but you don't have to to be a 'half decent player'. Most of the players held up as 'bass gods' on heres music ranges from being strongly disliked by me to making me recoil when I hear it, bar a couple, but that's not a problem as there's masses of other music for me to enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40hz Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='Maude' timestamp='1449927798' post='2928068'] And another insinuation that if you aren't a fan or don't appreciate Jacos contribution then you can't even be a half decent player. The comments of others, in and out of the music business, would suggest I'm at least a half decent player yet Jaco has never registered on my radar. I have, since this thread, listened to him but along with Stanley Clarke his music makes me whince. Whether he's 'all that' or not I don't care, but you don't have to to be a 'half decent player'. Most of the players held up as 'bass gods' on heres music ranges from being strongly disliked by me to making me recoil when I hear it, bar a couple, but that's not a problem as there's masses of other music for me to enjoy. [/quote] Pretty much my thoughts too Maude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1449926621' post='2928049'] When it comes down to it, I have never met a half decent bass player (regardless of genre) in the real world who isn’t a Jaco fan or at least appreciative of his contribution to music / modern bass playing. [/quote] You need to meet more people, including bassists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project_c Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='Rich' timestamp='1449924182' post='2928013'] Refer to the OP: The operative words are "to me". It's an OPINION, as in "I don't like the way it sounds", not a statement of fact like "Jaco sounds like...". [/quote] Yeah, apart from the fact that it's followed by literally that exact statement of fact, which is what people picked up on: [quote name='AinsleyWalker' timestamp='1449496563' post='2923995'] "it sounded like I'd just walked into any guitar shop in the world... Aimless noodling... [/quote] Anyway none of this is that important. I just saw people ganging up on someone and thought I'd speak up for them, its not a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1449930403' post='2928100'] You need to meet more people, including bassists. [/quote] +1 Like many of the [i]names[/i] that come up on here I have to google them, even then they are often only known to a certain group of people, how many bassists are true household names? Jaco is not one of them, knock on all the doors in your street and check, I would put a genuine £50 of my own money on this being fact! Macca and Sting, Lemmy, Mark king if they are over 40 years old after that they are mostly only household names in households where 50 plus year old bassists live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1449933858' post='2928138'] +1 Like many of the [i]names[/i] that come up on here I have to google them, even then they are often only known to a certain group of people, how many bassists are true household names? Jaco is not one of them, knock on all the doors in your street and check, I would put a genuine £50 of my own money on this being fact! Macca and Sting, Lemmy, Mark king if they are over 40 years old after that they are mostly only household names in households where 50 plus year old bassists live. [/quote] No one is a 'household name', by which I take you to mean commonly known, for being a bassist, not even McCartney. Insofar as McCartney is a 'household name' it's for being a Beatle, a singer, a musician, but most people don't even know what a bass is, and there is no reason why they should. Same goes for Sting. Pastorius is, in those terms, an obscurity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) I just now listened to the Jaco Pastorius album. I gave up half way through. It does not hold my interest and all those harmonics are extremely annoying. YMMV. Edited December 12, 2015 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Maude' timestamp='1449927798' post='2928068'] And another insinuation that if you aren't a fan or don't appreciate Jacos contribution then you can't even be a half decent player. The comments of others, in and out of the music business, would suggest I'm at least a half decent player yet Jaco has never registered on my radar. I have, since this thread, listened to him but along with Stanley Clarke his music makes me whince. Whether he's 'all that' or not I don't care, but you don't have to to be a 'half decent player'. Most of the players held up as 'bass gods' on heres music ranges from being strongly disliked by me to making me recoil when I hear it, bar a couple, but that's not a problem as there's masses of other music for me to enjoy. [/quote] If you are as accomplished a player as you seem to be insinuating, I am genuinely surprised that you are that unaware of JP. I am not suggesting every bass player should have to take a test or be able to play a flawless version of Teen Town before they are allowed to take a gig, but I thought that they might at least be aware of one of the most influential and celebrated bass players ever! Might be an age thing…! Edited December 12, 2015 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1449937732' post='2928196'] Might be an age thing. [/quote]Or more likely a genre thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) [quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1449938073' post='2928198'] Or more likely a genre thing. [/quote] Not really - I've been playing hard rock with the occasional foray into blues for the past 35 years. Fusion (and particularly jazz) is not really my thing... Edited December 12, 2015 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Pastorius: 'I’m just an imitator man. I’m doing a very bad imitation of Jerry Jemmott…' I prefer Jemmott. http://youtu.be/4Sm9n-6hy6M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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