DorsetBlue Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Okay, this is for a colleague of mine. His son (14) and friends are in a band and they have been picked to play on a minor stage at a small local festival in a 'Battle of the Bands' kind of format. They have been told that they will need to provide their own PA, as last year some of the bands claimed they were not very good because of the provided PA. Now I have never used a PA and neither has my colleague (both Brass players historically) - so we are not sure what level of equipment this would entail. Does anyone have any experience of this kind of thing and could suggest what type of kit (possibly with examples) that they should be looking at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymondo Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Does that mean that the organisers are not providing a P.A ? Will every band be asked to provide their own? If so that will not work! PA's are expensive,even if you go low end and second hand it's hundreds of pounds. You need more in formation.If they are asking the band to provide a PA and let all the other bands use it I would walk away. As a young band they will be keen to play,I would have been, but the festival organisers should provide a decent PA as a minimum. If they already owned a PA I would think differently,and they will need one to play their own gigs, but buying one just to play a battle of the bands at a festival is asking rather a lot I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Does every band that is playing have to provide their own PA? That would be a nightmare. Normally with this sort of thing the organiser should really provide the PA and all bands use that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Bet they are selling beer, ask if you can provide your own beer as well as PA for the people turning up to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 The festival is obviously being "run" by comedians. Utterly clueless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheth Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 [quote name='Raymondo' timestamp='1433320675' post='2789976'] Does that mean that the organisers are not providing a P.A ? Will every band be asked to provide their own? If so that will not work! PA's are expensive,even if you go low end and second hand it's hundreds of pounds. You need more in formation.If they are asking the band to provide a PA and let all the other bands use it I would walk away. As a young band they will be keen to play,I would have been, but the festival organisers should provide a decent PA as a minimum. If they already owned a PA I would think differently,and they will need one to play their own gigs, but buying one just to play a battle of the bands at a festival is asking rather a lot I think. [/quote] Not having the PA is setting alarm bells off in my mind. It shows the organization isn't up to scratch or they're not bothered to put any effort in. Out of curiosity, have they been given tickets and asked to sell them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorsetBlue Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Hmm, I have looked at the festival website and I think my colleague has got slightly the wrong end of the stick about the battle of the bands bit, as it seems to be a standard 45 min slot. Apparently one of the band has an older brother that also has a band and are having a family wedding, so the cost could be spread across these. But we have no idea what level of kit this is talking about? Edited June 3, 2015 by DorsetBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymondo Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) It is still not practical for each band to provide their own PA for a 45 mins slot,much too much work involved to set up between bands. Any festival with a multi band line up will have a PA installed and the bands just play their best and hope the sound engineer makes them sound good Mixing your self on stage at an outdoor event is a nightmare ! I f you are asking for ideas on a PA for a band that will be doing gigs regularly in pubs and clubs then there will be plenty of people along with their ideas but be warned, it will cost , probably well over a thousand pounds. You will need a mixing desk ,amp,speakers cables ,mics,micstands ....the list is endless. I have been in bands that have had £11,000 rigs and I have been in bands that play through a pair of crappy old Carlsbro speakers and an old 300 watt amp that probably only cost £200 (KevB will back me up on that one ) where the difference in quality of sound and portabillity is obvious from their cost! your colleague needs a lot more information before purchasing for just two gigs....unless he is quite rich and has a large van .....At this point I was going to say...in which case get down the music store and fill your boots.....but pubs and clubs require a different rig to outdoor festivals so he will still be non the wiser! Edited June 3, 2015 by Raymondo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 If (and I mean if) I could get the cooperation of the other bands I would hire in a PA and engineer and spread the cost. I wouldn't entertain it under any other circumstance. I would be asking the festival organiser to stump up in any case. As said, the requirements of outdoors are so very different - the bass tends to disappear about 2 feet in front of the cabs - and your pub PA just won't do it. I wonder what kind of rig was judged insufficient last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorsetBlue Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Thanks for everyones advice, which I have passed on. I have recommended that they go back to the organiser to question to requirement and at the least get a scope for what they are expecting to be provided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 It sounds to me like a mix-up in terminology. It's inconceivable for bands to provide PA in such circumstances, both for technical and financial reasons. Could it mean 'supply your own backline', that's to say the individual amps and cabs that the musicians play through..? That would make (a bit...) more sense, I think. Confirmation of requirements is the next step, I'd suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 [quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1433323964' post='2790039'] If (and I mean if) I could get the cooperation of the other bands I would hire in a PA and engineer and spread the cost. I wouldn't entertain it under any other circumstance. I would be asking the festival organiser to stump up in any case. [/quote] This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 What's the event? I know most of the people involved with festival type events in Dorset (we put a lot of our own events on) and may have some insight into what's going on. I also know plenty of PA hire people if you want to go down that route. PM me if you'd rather not say the name in a public forum. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlungerModerno Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1433320868' post='2789982'] Bet they are selling beer, ask if you can provide your own beer as well as PA for the people turning up to watch. [/quote] Great idea. The idea that if bands complain - get them to supply their own PA - Pure ignorance. Have they a soundman who's agreed to this? or do they expect each act to be their own PA and soundman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Walk away, these jokers have no idea at all. A very close friend runs PA for smaller stages at the Isle of White festival, I've taken this PA out for him on occasion, Its definitely the real deal for small festival stages. Sound quality and volume are very very impressive. Set up time is about 2 to 3 hours, including a soundcheck. Requires not less than 2 people to set up, ideally 4. At least 2 really need to know what they are doing or it takes longer. Fills a huge mercedes van. The desk alone cost 15k not including stage boxes These idiots dont have a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 clarify if they mean, provide your own amps, or provide your own PA. To clarify for you. Amps are just the things we plug our basses / guitars etc. into in order to amplify the sound of the particular instrument plugged in to it. A PA is what takes the sound from people singing / playing their instruments and projects it to the audience through a larger more powerful system than the individual amps on stage. A PA at a small festival sort of size will be made up of microphones for singers / drum kit / amps, a mixing desk, possibly a few power amps to supply power to the speakers (or possibly powered Active speakers), Floor monitors / foldbacks to allow people on stage to hear themselves / each other. This is the basic gear a PA would require and you only use one on a stage because as you can imagine, setting one up for each band would take longer than each set. Hope this helps. I can imagine why a festival organiser might have got their terminology wrong or want to wash their hands of the whole thing. You can imagine the parent of little Johnny coming up to an organiser after their kid comes off stage moaning about the sound and parent who has no idea about anything chews off the ear of anyone who will listen. As others have said. If no proper PA is supplied then walk away. If PA is supplied clarify what they actually mean and how will it be working. Also they probably need to clarify with all the other bands that they mean AMP not PA if they have accidentally told everyone to supply their own PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 If this is outdoor DorsetBlue a PA that most of the regularly gigging bands on here use won't even touch the sides, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Spidey sense tingling - at best it's a misunderstanding, at worst it's an opportunistic, exploitative, cynical attempt to get young, naive bands to do all the work for naff all while the "organiser/promoter" pockets all the takings. A sliding scale between those extremes, avoid like the plague anything which errs towards the crappy side of that scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Are you sure you've read the info correctly? Sounds to me it's a "Battle for the bands". PA takes a bit more setting up than your bass rig. If your boy really wants to do this gig & there is no PA, then I'd ask for info on who the other bands are & see about collaborating on the PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorsetBlue Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Clarification is in....apparently when they said PA, they meant the same level of PA that you have in a usual pub gig environment i.e. vocals with the guitars and bass using amps and drum purely acoustic. So the stage in question would appear to be based on a standard of a pub gig level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 As Les pointed out earlier though if it's in a field and the crowd are a distance away from the stage a small/medium 'pub' PA will easily get lost. If it's outdoors and say in a marquee or small space that can keep the sound in you might stand a better chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1433335346' post='2790168'] Walk away, these jokers have no idea at all. A very close friend runs PA for smaller stages at the Isle of White festival, I've taken this PA out for him on occasion, Its definitely the real deal for small festival stages. Sound quality and volume are very very impressive. Set up time is about 2 to 3 hours, including a soundcheck. Requires not less than 2 people to set up, ideally 4. At least 2 really need to know what they are doing or it takes longer. Fills a huge mercedes van. The desk alone cost 15k not including stage boxes These idiots dont have a clue. [/quote] This. All of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DorsetBlue Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 I don't think the area around this stage will be particularly big, as this is a small festival (no offence to the resident of this parish who is headlining it ). Apparently it is about doing the best they can with what they usually have. I am not going to question the wisdom or otherwise of that - for I do not have any experience in this area whatsoever. I would think for a group of 14yos, the experience of being on a small festival stage will probably be fun enough. Anyway, thanks for everyones advice, opinions and knowledge etc. My colleague is happy enough with the situation now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I'm thinking of promoting a festival. The bands will have to sell all the tickets, provide the PA / back line, hire the venue and arrange the shuttle buses. People don't get that it's a demanding job, being a promoter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I'd want to know [u]exactly[/u] what the deal was................... If you are going to muck in...and in the circumstances, I can see why you might want to..spread the load., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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