Barefaced Handles rant

[Beer of the Bass]

Back on topic with the handle positioning, I think the tall and narrow form factor is just an awkward one to fit handles to.
I have a Claber-built cab which was the S12T prototype (I don't refer to it as a Barefaced cab as it wasn't a retail model and I don't have the same drivers in it). The handles are in the usual position and while I've got used to it, I lent it to another bass player a couple of weeks ago and was quite amused watching him figure out the best way to move it around. He whacked himself in the shins at least once!
Putting the side handles in a central position was an odd decision as there's a temptation to pick it up with just one rather than both, at which point you're holding a very long object that's easy to swing around and bang on things. The construction style and design of the cab wouldn't lend itself to recessed handles, but I do sometimes wonder if a pair of external sprung handles mounted a little higher might be useful.
That said, it's still a breeze to move around compared to the 30Kg Peavey cab it replaced!

[JTUK]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1416834339' post='2613995']
Funny.

You know how I discovered BF cabs?
Through one heated thread about something or another about them. One of teh usual ones
I had no experience nor opinion, but I did get the impression "man, there really are a few guys hellbent on criticising!". It seemed to me the vociferous (sometimes tedious too) side were a handful of anti-BF. I could name a couple of names, but if you followed BF threads, you'll know exactly who they are.
It baffles me.
It also baffles me that they are surprised when someone gets a bit fed up and call them on it.

As it turns out I ended up with a pair of BF myself, as they satisfied my "light and loud" criteria, and although I'm not in love with them, I like them enough to not need to get rid off them any time soon. I have my criticisms about them too. I don't think they're the best sounding. But they do a decent job. For me.
I can't think of many bits of equipment that I love 100%. There's always something that could be better. There are some bits of equipment I positively dislike. I may have contributed a couple of times disclosing why I don't like them, if it was appropriate, but I don't go around participating in every single thread about them to state how much I hate them and insist about it... because I think there's a difference between giving your negative opinion and being obnoxious, and the latter is going to elicit a response, sooner or later. So don't be surprised when it happens
I'm glad I wasn't so vocal about my dislike for Precisions, because I truly hated them, for years. THAT would attract some flak! Especially as I eventually found a Precision that I fell in love with. But that's another story.

The comment about the vultures did not surprise me at all... what surprises me is that, well, there's someone who hasn't shown up yet to the party, but he will
[/quote]

The thing that makes me laugh is if you ( anyone ) has an opinion, then you hope they have formed it properly so therefore they will stand by it.
FWIW, I've had pops ( for want of better words ) at Markbass, Precisions and Stangrays recently. I am stating a view on why I don't like them. I don't expect a life long user to be worried about what I think as they are happy ..and more to the point, confident, that they have it right for them. I know my opinions as I have formed them over a period of time, generally, so I know what I like and want.
Since this is a discussion board, there will be times when you bump others opinions.. but it seems to me that the complainents
of this seem a little peeved that everyone else doesn't share their unbridled joy.. as though being a member of a club isn't quite the one way street they'd thought it would be..
Maybe they aren't that confident on what they have or what they want...??
Anyway, it doesn't matter, there will be a new kid on the block sooner or later.. and we get gas again...??

But don't start me on the TB club thing... please don't go there..!!!!!

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1416835766' post='2614022']

My amp is a Markbass LMIII. For your info!
[/quote]

OK, so I've veering WAY off topic again, but I do wonder if there's a correlation between ... erm ... how shall I phrase this ... ah yes! ... the Barefaced NON-[i]fanbois [/i]and using Markbass amps.

I've played through a variety of BF cabs with very satisfactory (to my ears) results using heads by people like Eden, Orange and Matamp but I personally detest the uber-middy sound (to my ears) of a Markbass through a BF cab.

Is it really as simple as that? People with Markbass amps don't like Barefaced cabs?

[CamdenRob]

Come on guys everyone knows how BC works...

All the gear you currently own = unsurpassed quality & tone, the best gear ever made at any price point.
All the gear you don't own = rubbish, pointless and only for people who don't understand how good your current gear is.

[Conan]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1416838029' post='2614066']
Anyway, it doesn't matter, there will be a new kid on the block sooner or later.. and we get gas again...??
[/quote]

You mean like TKS?

[mcnach]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1416845787' post='2614197']
You mean like TKS?
[/quote]

pssssssht!

[molan]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1416842696' post='2614155']


OK, so I've veering WAY off topic again, but I do wonder if there's a correlation between ... erm ... how shall I phrase this ... ah yes! ... the Barefaced NON-[i]fanbois [/i]and using Markbass amps.

I've played through a variety of BF cabs with very satisfactory (to my ears) results using heads by people like Eden, Orange and Matamp but I personally detest the uber-middy sound (to my ears) of a Markbass through a BF cab.

Is it really as simple as that? People with Markbass amps don't like Barefaced cabs?
[/quote]

I do wonder if there's a 'clean vs warm' effect in terms of how BF cabs interact with various amps.

The amps you've mentioned generally have an inherent warmer sound and should not be emphasising those 'aggressive' mids that BF are so famous for.

Conversely I've only ever experienced BF cabs with brighter cleaner heads and it's this combination that has me reaching for the earplugs very rapidly

Edited November 24, 2014 by molan

[PTB]

"Is it really as simple as that? People with Markbass amps don't like Barefaced cabs?"

No it's not Jack. I'm very happy with my S12T / LMII rig.

PS - my handles are showing a little wear & tear but my shins remain unblemished. 😄

[Marvin]

[quote name='PTB' timestamp='1416852148' post='2614310']
"Is it really as simple as that? People with Markbass amps don't like Barefaced cabs?"

No it's not Jack. I'm very happy with my S12T / LMII rig.

PS - my handles are showing a little wear & tear but my shins remain unblemished.
[/quote]

We'll need pictures of your legs, shins in particular, otherwise we don't believe you.

[Happy Jack]

For all we know, your feet have fallen off ...

[Muzz]

I've used my BF cabs with a Streamliner, a Fusion and an F1 (the F1 run flat with some digital modelling gubbins in front of it), and you kinda get out what you put in. I thought the best combination with the Steamliner, tho, was my old Schroeder - the low-mid bump of the cab suited the amp.

I have had to re-EQ with the BF cabs much more than with other cabs I've used - maybe that transparency (or character, tho it's been similar with three very different cabs) can work against them, and maybe that's where people can hear tones they don't like. I need a range of tones for what I make money playing, and I can get that from my digital modelling front end through to the cab, but I get that some folk don't want or need that, and have completely different tone goals. Having used BF cabs for years now, I still really, really don't get the 'quality' issues. Maybe I've been lucky. Finish, yeah, but then that's very subjective - for example, I wouldn't be seen dead with the TKS 'radiogram' finish cabs, but that's just me.

Oh, and the biggest problem I had shifting my S12T was if I rolled it too fast by the top handle it'd go into a speed wobble...

[Marvin]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1416856165' post='2614373']
Oh, and the biggest problem I had shifting my S12T was if I rolled it too fast by the top handle it'd go into a speed wobble...
[/quote]

You need to get your tracking and wheel alignment looked at

[LukeFRC]

I think I've played through about 5 different Barefaced cabs.... and it's useful to point out that tonally I found them all quite different between the "big" series and the non-big ones.
For what it's worth I didn't like the tone on the Super 15, or compact. The midget was good for the size, but I probably wouldn't buy any of them.
I hated the big one and [b]loved [/b]the big baby.
Interstingly a Fearful 15/6 I heard, a similar design to the original Big one was way nicer sounding- but the big baby was a bit special (to my ears anyway)
The "BF all sound like barf" is obviously rubbish as they all sound different.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1416826070' post='2613855']
Not really... but to put it into some sort of context...
Examples of things I've come across recently...
You have a bass heavy amp..paired with a bass heavy cab and you then have to ask questions about boom
and do you need a gamma....
Or that so much bass coming out is a tone killer combination..

or...you want the cab to be ultra clean and so you get out what you put in... but then you add a
pre signal to dirty things up..

These approaches sound muddled to me...
[/quote] the first one... some people just have cloth ears, and/or don't know how to mix a bass sound live.
the second one though... that makes sense to me- I wouldn't mind a powered PA cab as a rig (if someone knew one that would work!) - uber clean and then let me control the sound through the preamp. I also thing that that's quite good as most gigs I've ever played most the bass sound comes from the FOH and I'll be DIing into the PA desk - if I can set my tone on a preamp and then have a neutral reference point on stage that works for me. I also don't have space or money for lots of different cabs in order to get different tonal goals from different rigs.

[skej21]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1416843260' post='2614163']
Come on guys everyone knows how BC works...

All the gear you currently own = unsurpassed quality & tone, the best gear ever made at any price point.
All the gear you don't own = rubbish, pointless and only for people who don't understand how good your current gear is OR so good you have to have it. NOW!!
[/quote]

Fixed :-)

[Muzz]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1416856874' post='2614388']
You need to get your tracking and wheel alignment looked at
[/quote]

Wasn't as bad as a Suzuki GT750 Kettle I had years ago, tho - now that WAS a wobble...the phrase 'pig on stilts' comes to mind...

[Lozz196]

Here be the super-cable thingy, lifted from the Super12 page on BF website:

If your amp doesn't run below 4 ohms then the only way to expand a Super Twelve rig is to add a second Super Twelve and wire the two cabs in series with a special cable. However you must NOT series wire dissimilar cabs such as a Midget or Compact or indeed any other manufacturer's cabs.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1416863043' post='2614537']
Here be the super-cable thingy, lifted from the Super12 page on BF website:

If your amp doesn't run below 4 ohms then the only way to expand a Super Twelve rig is to add a second Super Twelve and wire the two cabs in series with a special cable. However you must NOT series wire dissimilar cabs such as a Midget or Compact or indeed any other manufacturer's cabs.
[/quote]

I see, that's a cable to connect the two 4ohm cabs in series, giving 8 ohm , so the amp can take it.

I sometimes thought I'd love FOUR small 12" 8ohm cabs for those moments where you just need to move more air, and pair them as a series of two pairs in parallel (as per the two 12T above) giving an 8ohm load. That could be a pretty cool stack, and of a sufficient height to sound really clear onstage.
But... I don't think I'm likely to need that anytime soon. Still, wouldn't it be cool?

[taunton-hobbit]

I had Matamp construct some clever Neutric socket boxes to enable me to use a couple of 8ohm cabs with a 4ohm amp, and my mid/tops with something else at 8ohm in & 4ohm out - not that dear, for what they do, and better than a jumble of fly sockets & leads...........ask Hayden nicely & he might make another set up..........and, even better - no handles were damaged in the posting of this response..............

[mcnach]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1416838029' post='2614066']
The thing that makes me laugh is if you ( anyone ) has an opinion, then you hope they have formed it properly so therefore they will stand by it.
FWIW, I've had pops ( for want of better words ) at Markbass, Precisions and Stangrays recently. I am stating a view on why I don't like them. I don't expect a life long user to be worried about what I think as they are happy ..and more to the point, confident, that they have it right for them. I know my opinions as I have formed them over a period of time, generally, so I know what I like and want.
Since this is a discussion board, there will be times when you bump others opinions.. but[u][color=#000000][b] it seems to me that the complainents
of this seem a little peeved that everyone else doesn't share their unbridled joy[/b][/color][/u].. as though being a member of a club isn't quite the one way street they'd thought it would be..
Maybe they aren't that confident on what they have or what they want...??
[color=#0000cd][b][u]Anyway, it doesn't matter, there will be a new kid on the block sooner or later.. and we get gas again...??[/u][/b][/color]

But don't start me on the TB club thing... please don't go there..!!!!!
[/quote]

[u][color=#000000][b]ref1: [/b][/color][/u]There may be a bit of that, but it also seems to me there's a bit of "picking a fight with the BF crowd" mentality by some.
disclaimer: the fact I own two BF cabs means little, I really don't mind if some love or hate them, I know what I think about them, and there are things I like and things I dislike about them.
I, for one, am very glad BF exists! It's served my needs very well.

[color=#0000ff][u][b]ref2:[/b][/u][/color] In fact, I was wondering.
There is a lot of "wow" surrounding certain newish outfit... and soon I'll be part of the "club" too, so we'll see. It does seem to compete more directly with BF than other makers, on paper. I have not yet had the chance to hear their products "live", so I can't talk of that. Regarding design, features and finish... they do seem to have the edge. Hopefully that will make BF become even better, rather than being outcompeted, and we all win.

[Beedster]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1416834339' post='2613995']
... as they satisfied my "light and loud" criteria, and although I'm not in love with them, I like them enough to not need to get rid off them any time soon. I have my criticisms about them too. I don't think they're the best sounding. But they do a decent job. I can't think of many bits of equipment that I love 100%. There's always something that could be better.
[/quote]

That sums up my thoughts exactly. I can walk my whole rig to a local pub with bass on back, do a set with sufficient volume and tone to keep up with the drums through a rig that to my mind fits the aesthetic and which is large enough to have the visual presence I like for a bass amp, have a couple of pints and walk home. In short, for me the cab does the job I need it to. I've had far 'better' cabs that didn't do the job in one or more respects. If Boogie made a 1516EV that I could similarly carry to a pub in one hand I'd be using that. If the larger PJB cabs weren't so ludicrously heavy I'd use one of those but they are!

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1416906211' post='2614797']
There is a lot of "wow" surrounding certain newish outfit... and soon I'll be part of the "club" too, so we'll see. It does seem to compete more directly with BF than other makers, on paper. I have not yet had the chance to hear their products "live", so I can't talk of that. Regarding design, features and finish... they do seem to have the edge. Hopefully that will make BF become even better, rather than being outcompeted, and we all win.
[/quote]

I am curious to see how the the thread might play out the first time somebody has a criticism of this outfit or their products. Given the special status they have on this forum, it could be interesting. I don't think that will happen any time soon, as their stuff looks well thought out and well executed, but there's always one!
It strikes me that they and Barefaced have slightly different approaches, as Barefaced have poured money into having new drivers developed for the Gen 3 cabs, while TKS are using off-the shelf components but offer sharper cosmetics, more options and seem to be a little more on the ball with customer relations.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1416842696' post='2614155']
................
Is it really as simple as that? People with Markbass amps don't like Barefaced cabs?
[/quote]

Not a big fan of Markbass amps or rather the LM series either, or their cabs for that matter.
I've used the LMll a lot in a 102 combo and also have used them as supplied backline and whilst
I like the combo at lower volume levels, I find the amp gets an unpleasing harshness when pushed..
which I invaribly have to do.
Coupled with that...the cabs have this pillow dullness to them typically, so I've all but given up on them, tbh.
Markbass class D and NEO really doesn't suit what I want to hear... and if you throw in a Lakland passive Jazz
you get wrong wrong wrong but strangely you get this combo A LOT... ???
Must be me then...

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1416917102' post='2614943']
Not a big fan of Markbass amps or rather the LM series either, or their cabs for that matter.
I've used the LMll a lot in a 102 combo and also have used them as supplied backline and whilst
I like the combo at lower volume levels, I find the amp gets an unpleasing harshness when pushed..
which I invaribly have to do.

[/quote]

So, serious question, do you actually use Markbass (which you seem to be saying) or are you not a big fan (which you also seem to be saying)?

[JTUK]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1416845787' post='2614197']
You mean like TKS?
[/quote]

No, I didn't ..as it happens.
I think they have been around long enough but are only new to the U.K market...

[JTUK]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1416917345' post='2614947']
So, serious question, do you actually use Markbass (which you seem to be saying) or are you not a big fan (which you also seem to be saying)?
[/quote]

I don't own Markbass...it would be a bit odd if I did, after what I tend to think about them, but
a rehearsal facility has one as does a friend so I get to play them frequently enough.
Also, a band I dep with supplies a 12 combo with a 12 underneath so sometimes it is easier
and I've used them on stages when the load-in has really ruled out bring your own. Funnily enough,
when I've asked what is being supplied they said TE or Ashdown, which filled me with a degree of
trepidation, but the Ashdown 210 combo wasn't too sad at all, tbh...so I was happier, and then
they swapped the backline for Markbass !!!! arhhh..!!
In short I get to play them quite a bit and regard them as a bit like TE..as in 'meh',
but you find they get everywhere and are hard to avoid. They are in the 'never ever playing thru that' category though, of course...
I just don't have much of a preference or regard for them.