Barefaced Handles rant

[stevie]

No, but some of my best friends are.

[Marvin]

...and they all (however many that is) had issues?

[stevie]

I seem to have hit a nerve......

[Muzz]

Precisely the one you were aiming for...

[machinehead]

I must be one of the earliest Barefaced users. I bought my Compact in 2008 and my Midget in 2009 and I still have them.

They have done many gigs although not too many together as they are more than adequate on their own for most of my gigs. Still, the option to use both is always there for those times when mad volume is in order.

The handles are still intact, the feet are firmly in place and show no signs of falling off. The only damage is to one edge of the Midget where a careless band mate whacked the edge of a heavy fire door. It was easily repaired and touched up though and is back to 100%.

When I hear other players through my cabs at jams etc, I think they sound wonderful and I'm "totally bemused" at how some people have said they sound "middy" and don't like the sound. They can be tweaked to make very different sounds but it's all in the ears of the listener isn't it?

Frank.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1416764620' post='2613339']
Lozz and Beedster always seem to buy quality gear, they're happy with the Barefaceds they've bought, , speaks for itself to me...and I wouldn't describe them as fan boys either.

Not liking the the finish or sound of these cabs is a matter of personal taste. There are numerous members on BC that dislike cabs finished in carpet, we don't however have threads questioning the quality of MarkBass products on that basis (who incidentally seem to use the same handles).
[/quote]

There seem to be a few people who start threads about Barefaced issues ( I never have )... and they are/were owners.
I question a high priced product and the quality of build, from what I have seen,... ( I could also mention sound but
I don't know what the end user wants to hear or is doing with the signal-chain )
but you can read enough threads and posts here about the issues...both for and against..
It seems every company is fair game but people get over protective about this one...
FWIW, I don't much like Mark bass cabs but no one else gets so defensive about it.
I think being critically objective is a good thing and is the whole value of a site like this,
It is not as though people are making all this stuff up... ???

[Marvin]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1416768868' post='2613392']
I seem to have hit a nerve......
[/quote]

Not at all. I neither own, or haved owned a BF cab, nor have I one on order or looking to do so.

I think it would be reasonable to say you are one of BFs harshest critics on the forum and I think it's valuable, and only fair, to know from where this criticism is founded.

From a personal perspective, as someone who may or may not buy a BF, I would much prefer to read the pros and cons from first hand accounts of those who have owned and gigged them

[Muzz]

If you read the first couple of pages of this thread, you'll see a discussion about the ergonomics of handle placement, being discussed to and fro between people who have/don't have the problem. There's even mention from owners of other makes saying their handles are a bit of a PITA, too.

Then there are interjections from the usual suspects, with nothing to add to the discussion other than to have a pop at Barefaced, which is sadly what happens on a lot of BF threads.

[machinehead]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1416744498' post='2613055']
I don't hate them..just don't rate them.
I have to admit to being totally bemused at the tone goals of the guys I've heard that do use them round here...
But whilst they may not have much of a clue as far as I am concerned, it goes quite a bit further than that, IMO..
but we don't have to get into that.
[/quote]

I'd be really interested if you did "get into that" - seriously! I'd love to hear more. And this is not to wind you up. I'm genuinely interested.

Frank

[mcnach]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1416741254' post='2613009']
I`ve now had 3 BF cabs, previously was a Compact/Midget, now am on a Super12T. I buy cabs for how they deal with the sound I want at the time, and currently the S12T is proving incredibly good. I wanted a cab that had very little colouration to the sound, so that I know what I hear from the cab is the same as what is DI`d to FOH. Also needed it to be powerful, light, and not too big. The S12T fits the bill on all of these. Before I bought it I thought about getting another, [b]along with the special lead that allows you to connect two up to a 4ohm head[/b], for bigger gigs. Now having used it at gigs I have no need sound-wise, but it would look good. And the handles work fine too.
[/quote]

how do you connect two pairs of 8ohm to give 4? 8ohm I see, but 4?

[Conan]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1416744498' post='2613055']
I have to admit to being totally bemused at the tone goals of the guys I've heard that do use them round here...
But whilst they may not have much of a clue as far as I am concerned, it goes quite a bit further than that, IMO..
[/quote]

Does that not strike you as an incredibly arrogant comment?

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1416771499' post='2613437']
It seems every company is fair game but people get over protective about this one...
[/quote]

Agreed. Some do. But then again, some people seem to circle above BF threads like vultures, waiting to make sniping and facetious comments while adding nothing to the discussion.

It's been this way for some years now, and clearly neither side is going to adopt the other's viewpoint.

Let's just agree to disagree?

[Lozz196]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1416775074' post='2613500']

how do you connect two pairs of 8ohm to give 4? 8ohm I see, but 4?
[/quote]

I really have no idea, but it says so on the BF website. All this tech-lark way beyond me.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1416775074' post='2613500']
how do you connect two pairs of 8ohm to give 4? 8ohm I see, but 4?
[/quote]
[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1416817350' post='2613758']
I really have no idea, but it says so on the BF website. All this tech-lark way beyond me.
[/quote]

Are we looking at a different website here?

The Barefaced site offers this:

[color=#800080][i]We can also supply cables which require 4 pole Speakons for bridged amps (wired 1+/2+) for £15 each or series cables (one amp end speakon, two cab speakons, for making two 4 ohm cabs into an 8 ohm load or two 8 ohm cabs into a 16 ohm load) for £20 each[/i][/color]

I'm not seeing much sign of "two pairs of 8ohm to give 4".

Besides which, you wouldn't connect "two pairs" of cabs would you? You might connect two x 8-ohm cabs (each of which was a twin), and yes, that would give you a 4-ohm load. It just wouldn't need a special cable, is all.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Happy Jack

[mcnach]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1416818288' post='2613766']
Are we looking at a different website here?

The Barefaced site offers this:

[color=#800080][i]We can also supply cables which require 4 pole Speakons for bridged amps (wired 1+/2+) for £15 each or series cables (one amp end speakon, two cab speakons, for making two 4 ohm cabs into an 8 ohm load or two 8 ohm cabs into a 16 ohm load) for £20 each[/i][/color]

I'm not seeing much sign of "two pairs of 8ohm to give 4".

Besides which, you wouldn't connect "two pairs" of cabs would you? You might connect two x 8-ohm cabs (each of which was a twin), and yes, that would give you a 4-ohm load. It just wouldn't need a special cable, is all.
[/quote]


the "two pairs" thing: yeah, I meant one pair of cabs. The two pairs came from thinking each cab has one pair of 8ohm speakers, in parallel = 4ohm. So two cabs together meant combining two pairs of 8 ohm speakers.

And yup, the cable to allow you to wire two cabs in series rather than parallel is cool, but you'd get an 8 ohm load in series, not 4, that's why I was asking what the magic cable did

[JTUK]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1416815748' post='2613741']
Does that not strike you as an incredibly arrogant comment?
[/quote]

Not really... but to put it into some sort of context...
Examples of things I've come across recently...
You have a bass heavy amp..paired with a bass heavy cab and you then have to ask questions about boom
and do you need a gamma....
Or that so much bass coming out is a tone killer combination..

or...you want the cab to be ultra clean and so you get out what you put in... but then you add a
pre signal to dirty things up..

These approaches sound muddled to me...

[stevie]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1416815748' post='2613741']
Does that not strike you as an incredibly arrogant comment?



Agreed. Some do. But then again, some people seem to circle above BF threads like vultures, waiting to make sniping and facetious comments while adding nothing to the discussion.

It's been this way for some years now, and clearly neither side is going to adopt the other's viewpoint.

Let's just agree to disagree?
[/quote]

What has been the case for some years in these threads is that, sooner or later one, of the the Barefaced fanboys will start taking aggressive and personal potshots at anyone who expresses the mildest critisism of their beloved boxes. Like calling them "arrogant", for example, or "vultures" and describing comments as "sniping and facetious".

And then - and I love this - they have the cheek to claim that posts, which are actually on topic, add nothing to the discussion.

[Happy Jack]

What's your favourite cab, Stevie?

[mcnach]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1416828355' post='2613898']
What has been the case for some years in these threads is that, sooner or later one, of the the Barefaced fanboys will start taking aggressive and personal potshots at anyone who expresses the mildest critisism of their beloved boxes. Like calling them "arrogant", for example, or "vultures" and describing comments as "sniping and facetious".

And then - and I love this - they have the cheek to claim that posts, which are actually on topic, add nothing to the discussion.
[/quote]

Funny.

You know how I discovered BF cabs?
Through one heated thread about something or another about them. One of teh usual ones
I had no experience nor opinion, but I did get the impression "man, there really are a few guys hellbent on criticising!". It seemed to me the vociferous (sometimes tedious too) side were a handful of anti-BF. I could name a couple of names, but if you followed BF threads, you'll know exactly who they are.
It baffles me.
It also baffles me that they are surprised when someone gets a bit fed up and call them on it.

As it turns out I ended up with a pair of BF myself, as they satisfied my "light and loud" criteria, and although I'm not in love with them, I like them enough to not need to get rid off them any time soon. I have my criticisms about them too. I don't think they're the best sounding. But they do a decent job. For me.
I can't think of many bits of equipment that I love 100%. There's always something that could be better. There are some bits of equipment I positively dislike. I may have contributed a couple of times disclosing why I don't like them, if it was appropriate, but I don't go around participating in every single thread about them to state how much I hate them and insist about it... because I think there's a difference between giving your negative opinion and being obnoxious, and the latter is going to elicit a response, sooner or later. So don't be surprised when it happens
I'm glad I wasn't so vocal about my dislike for Precisions, because I truly hated them, for years. THAT would attract some flak! Especially as I eventually found a Precision that I fell in love with. But that's another story.

The comment about the vultures did not surprise me at all... what surprises me is that, well, there's someone who hasn't shown up yet to the party, but he will

[stevie]

I can't say that I have a favourite as such, Jack. I've played quite a few boxes that were OK, but nothing that has really blown me away. From a sound reinforcement point of view, most offerings still seem to be stuck in the 1970s. A 12" or 2 x 12" and a tweeter is what HH used thirty-odd years ago. PA has moved on, but bass cabs not so much. I'm a fan of the separate midrange driver approach pioneered for bass cabs by Greenboy (which actually has its origins several decades earlier in the Electrovoice 15/3).

My own cab is an Ashdown Mini 15, modified by adding castors, bracing, damping, changing the ports for flared ones and fitting a BMS 15n620 driver in 4 ohms. I use it with an 8" midrange driver in a separate cabinet with a crossover I designed and built myself. To improve dispersion in the midrange, I'm going to swap the 8" for a 6.5" when I get around to it, and I have a couple sitting on the shelf in my workshop waiting. I also have a few interesting 12" drivers waiting for Phil to supply a cab for the Cab Design Diary thread but I don't think any of them will make me change from the BMS.
My amp is a Markbass LMIII. For your info!

[Muzz]

Anything to add on topic? You know, about your experience of the handle position of a S12T?

Didn't think so...

[Conan]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1416835766' post='2614022']

My own cab is an Ashdown Mini 15, modified by adding castors, bracing, damping, changing the ports for flared ones and fitting a BMS 15n620 driver in 4 ohms. I use it with an 8" midrange driver in a separate cabinet with a crossover I designed and built myself. To improve dispersion in the midrange, I'm going to swap the 8" for a 6.5" when I get around to it,
[/quote]

Sounds like a Barefaced Big One would suit you perfectly Stevie. Probably a bit lighter than your Ashdown-based cab(s) too...

[stevie]

Oh yes, and my cab is fitted with sturdy side handles so that the box doesn't hit me in the shins when I pick it up.....

[Conan]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1416828355' post='2613898']
What has been the case for some years in these threads is that, sooner or later one of the the Barefaced haters will start taking aggressive and personal potshots at Alex Claber and anyone who owns a BF cab. Like calling them "fanboys" for example, or describing their "tone-goals" as "bemusing" and "clueless".

And then - and I love this - they have the cheek to claim that posts, which are actually on topic, add nothing to the discussion.
[/quote]

[Conan]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1416836745' post='2614040']
Oh yes, and my cab is fitted with sturdy side handles so that the box doesn't hit me in the shins when I pick it up.....
[/quote]

Touche!

[stevie]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1416836439' post='2614035']
Sounds like a Barefaced Big One would suit you perfectly Stevie. Probably a bit lighter than your Ashdown-based cab(s) too...
[/quote]

Indeed! I really like the concept of the Big One, but I am not a fan of their cabinet material. The Ashdown as it is now is about 18kg and very compact. With castors, it's quite manageable.