Spitfire Guards. Review!

[discreet]

It's a shame, as obviously there are a lot of customers of Spitfire (including myself) who are more than happy with their guards. It does seem as if they have dropped the ball on this one. Surely the cost of resolving this issue would be well worth it given the negative effect this thread must be having on Spitfire's future business here and elsewhere?

[dannybuoy]

I was thinking of ordering one but after this I just went and ordered one from WD Music. Very happy with the result too, it's proper celluloid tort and cost £70. I would've liked something a bit more orangey to go with my sunset orange P, but not if I have to take the risk of it turning out like Billy's! Will upload pics to the 'where has all the decent tort gone' and 'Precision porn' threads once it's done!

It's not too late to fix this and retain your reputation if you're out there reading this!

Edited August 7, 2014 by dannybuoy

[skej21]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1407406323' post='2520116']
It's a shame, as obviously there are a lot of customers of Spitfire (including myself) who are more than happy with their guards. It does seem as if they have dropped the ball on this one. Surely the cost of resolving this issue would be well worth it given the negative effect this thread must be having on Spitfire's future business here and elsewhere?
[/quote]

Agreed. However, that is only if they value their customers and aren't arrogant enough to believe that their product cannot be flawed, unsuitable or not appropriate for the customer's order. It would appear that's not the case.

[Thunderbird]

So Billy has pretty much paid the best part of £160 for a guard that does not really look much better than a 10 quid crappy Chinese one from ebay that Spitfire guy must be coining it in I would would be bloody annoyed if it was me and I am surprised Paypal did not do much they are really good helping buyers normally

[HowieBass]

So this guy praises Jesus Christ and the Lord's work but he charges an extortionate amount for his products and keeps 35% of money paid to him when it turns out he's made something that doesn't fulfil the customer's request? I think you ought to quote some Bible at him, specifically from Luke 16:13 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1407408315' post='2520147']
So this guy praises Jesus Christ and the Lord's work but he charges an extortionate amount for his products and keeps 35% of money paid to him when it turns out he's made something that doesn't fulfil the customer's request? I think you ought to quote some Bible at him, specifically from Luke 16:13 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”
[/quote]
Thanks for the support Howie. But if it's OK, I'd rather keep this thread focused on Spitfires business model and not the beliefs of the any individual behind it. It's business, not personal, I'm sure you understand

[chrismuzz]

Do the US not have Distance Selling Regulations (or whatever it was changed to a few weeks ago)? It should be 14 days from the day after the goods are delivered, no questions asked, for a full refund.. and as I understand it they haven't even been delivered yet!

[redbandit599]

Does your Paypal account connect to a credit card? May be some angle in there to raise a dispute if it does.

[gafbass02]

I won't be buying from them after seeing this

[skankdelvar]

From the 'Where has all the decent tort' shill-fest:

[quote name='Spitfire7' timestamp='1402563132' post='2474751']
I see your point and I understand and I love helping people out. [...] When I am working on your guard, I am not just a business, I become your friend. I work closely with you to make it everything you could have ever imagined.
[/quote]

TBH, I was thinking about it and even visited his site - until I went back and read the bit about 'I become your friend'? Now that's just plain [i]creepy[/i] so I heaved a regretful sigh and put the idea on the back-burner, accounting it a bullet well-dodged.

That my good friend and seasoned industry observer Mr W. Apple should subsequently run aground is a matter of profound regret to me. I feel I should have said something, perhaps on the lines of: 'FOR F**K'S SAKE DON'T DO IT, BILLY!! HE'S A GRINNER!!'
[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited August 7, 2014 by skankdelvar

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1407428800' post='2520483']
From the 'Where has all the decent tort' shill-fest:



TBH, I was thinking about it and even visited his site - until I went back and read the bit about 'I become your friend'? Now that's just plain [i]creepy[/i] so I heaved a regretful sigh and put the idea on the back-burner, accounting it a bullet well-dodged.

That my good friend and seasoned industry observer Mr W. Apple should subsequently run aground is a matter of profound regret to me. I feel I should have said something, perhaps on the lines of: 'FOR F**K'S SAKE DON'T DO IT, BILLY!! HE'S A GRINNER!!'
[color=#ffffff].[/color]
[/quote]

I read the above quote after I placed my order, but as you can imagine that one stuck in my throat.
Spitfire have been far from a friend to me.

One lives and learns.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Billy Apple

[Beer of the Bass]

I noticed that you started similar threads on a couple of other forums. The difference in culture between the different forums is quite telling, especially where the guys on offset guitars praised Spitfire for his "classy and respectful" response and compared you to somebody criticising the Mona Lisa for not having a beard! On reflection, I think I like it better here...

Edited August 8, 2014 by Beer of the Bass

[CamdenRob]

The guy is clearly a notable craftsman creating a product that people want (dubious customer service aside). But all that god stuff on the website makes him look like a right nuttter... I'd be scared to give him my details

Edited August 8, 2014 by CamdenRob

[paul_5]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1407408315' post='2520147']
he charges an extortionate amount for his products and keeps 35% of money paid to him when it turns out he's made something that doesn't fulfil the customer's request?
[/quote]

Even God only asks for 10%!

[discreet]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1407519587' post='2521477']
Even God only asks for 10%!
[/quote]

He charged me 15%!! Moves in a mysterious way? I'd say so.

[skankdelvar]

Interesting comment from one of the OSG mods which chimed with my view of the Tort thread here:

[quote]Spitfire has gotten a TON of free advertising and publicity on this forum [[i]OSG[/i]], and the giant thread turned into a huge FS ad outside of the proper FS section.[/quote]

They say that viral 'reputation' marketing is highly effective if it's well-managed.

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1407552541' post='2521772']
Interesting comment from one of the OSG mods which chimed with my view of the Tort thread here:



They say that viral 'reputation' marketing is highly effective if it's well-managed.
[/quote]

If any one wants to read my thread on OSG it's [url="http://offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=83869"]here[/url]

The giant Spit-fest is [url="http://offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10616&hilit=spitfire"]here[/url]

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

This sorry episode seems to be due to a lack of communication being built into the business model. No one wants any surprises when they pay such a large sum for a bespoke article.

Using weird & wonderful names to describe something so visual even with the samples alongside is never going to work as you'll never have the same piece of tort twice and as the pattern is so random that the way it can be described will aleays be subjective. In this case the description of the samples and what was supplied do not seem to correspond well.

The obvious way around the issue to prevent this from reoccurring in future is for the vendor to take a photo of the piece of tort he initially selects to fulfil the order with a clear overlay on top to show the outline of how the pg will look once cut & email a pic to the customer for approval. if it isnt what the customer had in mind, he still has the uncut material and a better idea of what the customer requires. Based on the feedback received he'd then either cut the pickguard or similarly send another pic using that until the customer does say "yes thats the one".

[cameltoe]

I've read the whole of this thread and the OSG thread and a few things come to mind....

1) The posters on OSG are mostly bonkers, and seem to think you should shut up, because the guard looks amazing anyway. They seem biased to begin with so obviously worship this guys work.

2) Spitfire's response on OSG is completely over the top. Accusing you of slander? Malicious attempts to ruin his business? Really? When reading spitfire's response it's obvious the guy is not easy to do business with.

3) The guard looks nothing like vintage burgundy or crazy 70's, and looks like solar flare. I would want another guard made too, as it is quite clearly not as described, even allowing for the variation in final products that can occur with custom parts.

4) Where is the customer service? I'm also appalled that this has been completely overlooked by the posters on OSG. Even if the seller was 'in the right' as most of them think (IMO he wasn't) you don't just dismiss customer complaints in such an arrogant way. The very fact it has gone this far should make people ask questions. Sure, it's a small business, but you don't get far by behaving like that.

[Billy Apple]

I'm laughing now because Spitfire have retrospectively added a picture of the guard to their site as an example of 'crazy '70's'.

All I can say is had I seen a picture of the P Bass guard as an example of 'crazy 70's' then I would have not ordered crazy 70's in the first place!

Talk about changing the goal posts! It like I need a kind of forwards/backwards time-machine to solve this one!

Edited August 15, 2014 by Billy Apple

[wateroftyne]

I know it's not what you ordered so it's a moot point, but in the lower-contrast shots on the OSG thread it looks like a pretty cool guard. Someone will be happy with it.

[AntLockyer]

I have to say this but the ammo for the OSG guys was provided by posting it in places where you aren't a member. To me it looks like an attempt to damage business rather than protect a community. If it was just this thread here where you are a very active member then I doubt anyone would have had anything negative to say. Maybe

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1407633202' post='2522528']
I'm laughing now because Spitfire have retrospectively added a picture of the spurious guard to their site as an example of 'crazy '70's'.
[/quote]

That is pretty funny

I also think it's a really cool looking guard, but it's definitely not what you ordered! You've basically paid like £50 (or whatever 35% of $170 is, i haven't a clue about exchange rates) for some pictures of a pickguard that someone is going to buy someday. It's a shame you have to pay upfront otherwise I'd tell you to take a photo of some cash and send that to him

[discreet]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1407650522' post='2522546']
I know it's not what you ordered so it's a moot point, but in the lower-contrast shots on the OSG thread it looks like a pretty cool guard. Someone will be happy with it.
[/quote]

WoT is dead right you know, Sean! Did I not say [i]exactly[/i] the same thing to you only yesterday when you were round here admiring my new Spitfire guard??

Edited August 10, 2014 by discreet

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1407668559' post='2522700']
WoT is dead right you know, Sean! Did I not say [i]exactly[/i] the same thing to you only yesterday when you were round here admiring my new Spitfire guard??
[/quote]

I've never said the guard is terrible, and may well be suited to someone else, and yes your Jazz looks (and is) sublime. I will freely admit the guard adds to that sublimity. But the guard they made for me is not representative of the examples they gave (although it is now seeing as Spitfire added the pic of it to the site )

This whole thing is not about Spitfire guards, it's about the business practices behind it. How Spitfire cannot accept that the product can never be anything less than perfect. According to Spitfire, the guard is perfect for Spitfire, but it's going on my bass. Is it not only fair that it is perfect for me too?

Imagine we are in a parallel universe but one where Spitfire just made another guard which was right for me (which looked like the photos at the time). I'd be posting a thread about how brilliant their service is, as I do for for companies that provide it. IMHO this would've led to increased sales for Spitfire and doubtless someone here would've bought the guard. Spitfire could've ended up with a 'Limelight factor' with many people here wanting the product.

But that did not happen. I'm not prepared to take the risk of bringing something into the UK and adding the import duty just to see if I like it. Then trying to sell it on and recoup my losses if I don't.

This company has sent me interminable emails just full of complete and utter nonsence, reams and reams of them. The second thing they said to me after I 'take the guard and learn to love it' was we'll dock your money. They had put the guard up for sale 3.5 hours before I'd given them my decision, after that there was no way I wanted to conduct business with this company.

Spitfire have subsequently revised the price after first posting it for sale at $175, only because I think they've been shamed by the threads I've started. Spitfire have now added the photo the guard to the site in an effort to say 'there you go, we told you yours looks like the examples'

This is an organisation that will do or say anything they can in order to absolve themselves of any responsibility or care towards a customer that questions them.

I'm way past the point where I will consider having anything else to do with this company.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Billy Apple