Jimmyfingers Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Why is that when people go on about older guitars sounding better they are only ever talking about Fenders? Back in the 80's you'd get people crowing on about 62 Precision or whatever, and I suppose they were pretty much the only brand that could have much of a vintage being the first production basses. So somehow a 20 year old Fender sounded better than a new one. But now, you can get Warwick's or Status that are 20+ years of, and yet I've never heard anybody making claims for them sounding better. Weird. My first post, and I'm chuffed because I've just bought a 9 year old Warwick. My first bass since stopping playing about 10 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='Jimmyfingers' timestamp='1392853472' post='2373656'] Why is that when people go on about older guitars sounding better they are only ever talking about Fenders? Back in the 80's you'd get people crowing on about 62 Precision or whatever, and I suppose they were pretty much the only brand that could have much of a vintage being the first production basses. So somehow a 20 year old Fender sounded better than a new one. But now, you can get Warwick's or Status that are 20+ years of, and yet I've never heard anybody making claims for them sounding better. Weird. My first post, and I'm chuffed because I've just bought a 9 year old Warwick. My first bass since stopping playing about 10 years ago. [/quote] Interesting that you chose Warwick as an example, as I think there are [i]many[/i] people who feel the older ones sound and feel better. I don't know about Status, don't think the way they have been built has changed much at all. I think in general it is not just about sound but about playability, aesthetics and the general vintage vibe, the latter being the only one a brand new 'custom built to your spec's' bass wont have. But, when you consider the costs of a 50's Precision or early 60's Jazz, you are paying an awful lot more than what most luthiers would charge for that vibe. Personally, I wouldn't even consider it. If you fancy a worn looking bass, play a new one for 30 years. If your impatient, get a Roadworn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Jimmyfingers' timestamp='1392853472' post='2373656'] Why is that when people go on about older guitars sounding better they are only ever talking about Fenders? Back in the 80's you'd get people crowing on about 62 Precision or whatever, and I suppose they were pretty much the only brand that could have much of a vintage being the first production basses. So somehow a 20 year old Fender sounded better than a new one. But now, you can get Warwick's or Status that are 20+ years of, and yet I've never heard anybody making claims for them sounding better. Weird. My first post, and I'm chuffed because I've just bought a 9 year old Warwick. My first bass since stopping playing about 10 years ago. [/quote] Welcome to hell ... erm, I mean Basschat. Congratulations also on your 9 year old Warwick. Mine sounds better than yours though, because it's 26 years old. Only joking Every Warwick that I've played sounds as good as the next, just different. I think that a lot of the time folk get carried away with romantic ideas about a certain era of music, and bingo that 1969 Precision just oozes mojo. Maybe Fenders were actually better back in the day? I don't know though. I thought they had always been pigs Edited February 20, 2014 by Fionn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The whole 'old Fenders sound better' thing was more of a reaction to the takeover of the business by CBS than anything else - big corporations just weren't cool. I can remember people stating that '70's strats are sh*t', but 40 years on and people are raving over those same strats. Interestingly, it seems that the majority of people who can 'hear the difference' between an aged Fender and a new one are those who have just spent £14K on an old one... difference or self justification? Not an easy one to answer without p*ss*ng people off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clashcityrocker Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1392857272' post='2373677'] Interestingly, it seems that the majority of people who can 'hear the difference' between an aged Fender and a new one are those who have just spent £14K on an old one... difference or self justification? Not an easy one to answer without p*ss*ng people off. [/quote] I think I would get that tattooed on my hands if I had just spent 14k on one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfox Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I'll agree with Kev and say a lot of it has to do with playability and vibe. I had a Streamer that I bought new in 89, it was a nice bass and I played it exclusively for over 20 years. Just now I just picked up a new Warwick star bass (mik) and it's every bit as nice fit and finish as the old Streamer was. Thats been Warwick for me. Then no other Fender P I have played compares to the feel of my 1970, great neck, nice weight and full of mojo... The same for my pre-eb Ray.. it has that something in vibe and playability and sound for me that the post EB's don't..or at least the ones I have tried don't. When you get hold of THE right bass you will know it ! be it vintage or new, It's a choice we are free to make. Enjoy the ride it's fun. Edited February 20, 2014 by Highfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Fender were bought out by CBS, supposedly QC tailed off... early 90's warwick focused on small scale production focusing on woods, then they start mass producing and since 2011ish have gone back to smaller scale production. so yes the ones in the middle are considered less desirable. Which is what it comes down too - Status has always been made by the same people in the same company, apart from bringing out a new mark king model every 3 months they are constant - so different eras aren't really considered "better" If you can't get them any more, and they are unique (Wal) their value goes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I think the thing about Fenders is, as has already been suggested, lineage, both in terms of Fenders being the first production line electric bass so there are now rather a lot of them about and the fact the company as well as the instruments themselves having been through several changes. Natural variability in woods and variances in production (for both better or worse) has created a family of instruments which like wine sees good years and not so good years and good instruments are usually selected for use in preference to mediocre instruments, hence often the best basses will become road worn whilst the mediocre basses get left at home. What I've yet to see is some kind of vintage bass chart that immediately suggests which years to go for, for basses from various manufacturers, eg. the Japanese Squier Silver series (?) (not unlike this vintage wine chart http://www.bbr.com/vintage-chart here), though I'm sure the information is out there. Maybe an idea for a sticky thread somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Pre-CBS Fenders were built to slightly different specifications, which changed over subsequent years. Only a couple of days ago I played a 1963 Jazz bass and the big difference between that and say, a seventies Fender was that it seemed much, much easier to play. The fingerboard radius seemed more extreme than on later basses... I've often wondered what 'plays like butter' means and now I know. It sounded great too, but in my humble opinion it didn't sound much different to any other good-sounding Fender. Whether one thinks that playability is worth spending thousands of pounds extra for is up to the individual, I suppose. My Hayman 4040 is more difficult to play than my Custom P, but I'm more than happy to put up with that because it sounds great. So you pays your money (or not) and you takes your choice... Edited February 20, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1392857272' post='2373677'] The whole 'old Fenders sound better' thing was more of a reaction to the takeover of the business by CBS than anything else - big corporations just weren't cool. I can remember people stating that '70's strats are sh*t', but 40 years on and people are raving over those same strats. Interestingly, it seems that the majority of people who can 'hear the difference' between an aged Fender and a new one are those who have just spent £14K on an old one... difference or self justification? Not an easy one to answer without p*ss*ng people off. [/quote] That's basically it. It would be interesting to do a similar test to this only with a current MIA Fender and a vintage one, just swapping out the electronics: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-difference-743932/ I think the results would be very telling. Mind you then all the guys who get chubbys over vintage basses would say it isn't a fair test as part of the unique tone is in the 50+ year old lumps of solder..... I also wonder how many of the owners of vintage Fenders who extol their virtues are actually playing fakes. Placebos are indeed funny things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razze06 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Isn't it simply that only the good basses are left, and the poorly made ones didn't last? A bit like music, really. Bad songs from the 60s are forgotten, only the good ones (for someone) are left... That could be particularly true of old fenders, that were made by hand by individual workers, using different woods, QC being what it is was.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 It's just more opinion dressed up as fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Oh look! Look! It's NOT a Fender!!! [URL=http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/h4ppyjack/media/Hofner%20vintage%20instruments/Hofner%20500%207%201964%20CURRENT/DSCF3395.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/h4ppyjack/Hofner%20vintage%20instruments/Hofner%20500%207%201964%20CURRENT/DSCF3395.jpg[/IMG][/URL] It's a 1964 Hofner 500/7 Verithin. I played it last week with an early 60's British rock'n'roll band (Johnny Kidd & The Pirates, Rory Storm & The Hurricanes, The Big Three, etc.). It sounded sublime, thuddy and with dodgy intonation, it sounded as if it was the original bass played on those recordings. Because ... erm ... it probably [i][b]was [/b][/i]the original bass played on those recordings. I've played the current Hofner CT re-issued Verithins. They're very new and shiny, and they look real purdy. But vintage basses sound better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1392891361' post='2373801'] ... with dodgy intonation ... [/quote] You mean the dodgy intonation on my old Hofner was not because it had been dropped down a flight of stairs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Nope - it was a factory extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1392892078' post='2373813'] Nope - it was a factory extra. [/quote] So down the stairs was a waste of effort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1392891361' post='2373801'] I played it last week with an early 60's British rock'n'roll band ... [/quote] I forgot I had this: [attachment=155706:Airplay Studios Rehearsal (15).JPG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1392891361' post='2373801'] Oh look! Look! It's NOT a Fender!!! [url="http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/h4ppyjack/media/Hofner%20vintage%20instruments/Hofner%20500%207%201964%20CURRENT/DSCF3395.jpg.html"][/url] It's a 1964 Hofner 500/7 Verithin. I played it last week with an early 60's British rock'n'roll band (Johnny Kidd & The Pirates, Rory Storm & The Hurricanes, The Big Three, etc.). It sounded sublime, thuddy and with dodgy intonation, it sounded as if it was the original bass played on those recordings. Because ... erm ... it probably [i][b]was [/b][/i]the original bass played on those recordings. I've played the current Hofner CT re-issued Verithins. They're very new and shiny, and they look real purdy. But vintage basses sound better. [/quote] The basses on those records were new and shiny. If the good thing about the old bass is that it sounds exactly like the old records and the new basses don't, then it has to be a case of "they don't make 'em like they used to". How do the new German Hofners stack up against the old ones, as that might be a better comparison than the CT series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1392891966' post='2373811'] You mean the dodgy intonation on my old Hofner was not because it had been dropped down a flight of stairs? [/quote] Dodgy intonation comes as standard I tried recording my last album with a Hofner Verithin and the whiney producer moaned so much about the intonation I had to re-cut everything on Fenders. I think it is part of their charm and the reason why people talk about basses being out of tune on certain records. Relax, it's more intune a few frets down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1392892555' post='2373824'] How do the new German Hofners stack up against the old ones, as that might be a better comparison than the CT series? [/quote] Troo dat. I had a V62 German Re-Issue of the violin bass (the Beatle bass) and it sounded every bit as good as my 1964 500/1 Violin. I've also had both a CT and an Icon and neither of them really cut the mustard. Quite apart from the electrics (especially the pickups) what really does the damage is the "sustain block" which is of course merely a way of making the instrument in a cheaper and more mechanised way. You can't take a hollowbody or semi-acoustic design, and shove a bloody great lump of 4x2 down the middle of it, and expect it to sound the same. Nor does it feel the same, or hang/balance the same. Perfectly capable of being a good, playable instrument ... just not the same as (or as good as) the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1392891361' post='2373801'] I played it last week with an early 60's British rock'n'roll band (Johnny Kidd & The Pirates, Rory Storm & The Hurricanes, The Big Three, etc.). [/quote] Did 'etc' play all their old hits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1392894326' post='2373847'] Did 'etc' play all their old hits? [/quote] Yes, but that's before they went all prog and changed their name to Ampersand ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1392894367' post='2373849'] Yes, but that's before they went all prog and changed their name to Ampersand ... [/quote] Sadly that was the downfall of all those beat groups..............prog that is not ampersand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Vintage basses are like cars. Every now and then you find an ERA, SS100 or AC Cobra, but most are Bubble cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I liked those little Messerschmidts ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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