Wylie Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1382294700' post='2250297'] Mention 'jazz' to people and, aside from a few who like it, the reactions seem to be very negative, some even hostile. People don't react like this to 'classical' music do they? So why is jazz the recipient of so much unfair stereotyping and derision? Or is it? Mention 'metal' or 'hip hop' to a lot of people and they might react similarly. [/quote] Played a bit with a friend from Texas last night. (Texas: Not a big jazz state, as you may have gathered already.) I mentioned Miles Davis, and he smirked. 'Oh, yeah,' he said. '[i]That'd[/i] be fun to play.' It was as if I'd suggested something truly ridiculous. In the meantime, what does he like? Well, name your country singer, your 'oldy-timey' quartet, or any old Chuck Berry musical monologue: that's what he's interested in. It is not the music he abhors, it's that, to him, jazz is intellectual, and therefore to be avoided at all costs. If it ain't 1-4-5, it ain't [i]real [/i]music. I find this attitude repulsive. I think that what my friend wants to play, and wants to hear, is the same old, same old, same old thing, over and over and over again. What a f***ing [i]bore.[/i] W. Edited October 21, 2013 by Wylie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 [quote name='Wylie' timestamp='1382397139' post='2251788'] What a f***ing [i]bore.[/i] [/quote] Though presumably not for him. I really can't understand why people get so worked up about this sort of thing. Why care about other people's musical tastes, whatever their reasons for them, never mind finding them "repulsive" for goodness sake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1382397507' post='2251790'] Why care about other people's musical tastes, whatever their reasons for them, never mind finding them "repulsive" for goodness sake! [/quote] Oh, I don't know. I'm getting a bit tired of being the patient, tolerant, liberal Basschatter you all know and love. One of these days I'll break out and go postal. ...[size=4]In about 3-5 business days, I reckon.[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1382398114' post='2251793']...One of these days I'll break out and go postal. ...[/quote] You mean you going to stamp it out..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1382391823' post='2251725'] Enjoyed the bit with the patter and the singing, solos bored me. [/quote] Forget the music just listen to the lyrics. It what this thread is about. Listen from 3.55 Edited October 22, 2013 by BetaFunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1382295670' post='2250332'] There are a zillion types of music that fall under the grouping'Jazz'. Wes Montgomery playing guitar, Ornette Colman playing free jazz, Bill Evans' piano trios, big band jazz like Duke Ellington, bebop like Charlie Parker, the 60s experimentation of Miles Davis and so on. I am non-plussed by some of it, love some of it (eg Bill Evans), hate lots of it (free jazz etc) but its a hell of a broad grouping. Do you really hate all of it? [/quote] I'm not a great lover of most jazz, but Clarky nails it again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 it's a bit like saying you hate Rock music IMO. That would be like saying you don't like anything from The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Tool, Iron Maiden or any other style that could fall under the Rock category. The term Jazz covers a huge range of styles that are defined as Jazz from Frank Sinatra & Satchmo to Miles Davis to Bjork & for a "musician" to say that they don't like Jazz does make them appear to have a limited understanding of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1382431311' post='2251934'] ....for a "musician" to say that they don't like Jazz does make them appear to have a limited understanding of music.... [/quote] No. It just means that they don't like Jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [quote name='Wylie' timestamp='1382397139' post='2251788'] Played a bit with a friend from Texas last night... [/quote] Not too surprised at that. Probably just wanted to play "I don't want a lover" or "Say what you want" ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1382436635' post='2252047'] Not too surprised at that. Probably just wanted to play "I don't want a lover" or "Say what you want" ;-) [/quote] I prefer the early stuff - before they were taken over by Homebase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I've managed to slowly sneak jazz onto our garden centre sound system... Started with a bit of Jack Teagarden, Sidney Bechet etc (we have lots of older customers). Then it was a bit of relatively mainstream be bop (Miles' "Kind of Blue", with a bit of Horace Silver, Chet Baker etc). About 3 months ago I put Miles' "In a Silent Way" (thought of as highly modern back in 1969ish!), and I'm toying with putting Bitches Brew on. So far we're up to some tracks off James Carter's "Layin' in the Cut" (with Jamaaladeen on bass), and I'm not going to stop until we've got Last Exit and Derek Bailey on. Unless folks run out screaming, or worse, sales drop. But we've had lots of compliments on our musical choices - it's an ipod set to shuffle with jazz, plus Vivaldi (not boring at all bassoon and lute concertos), Bruch, Beethoven (late quartets!), Mozart (mainly piano concertos) with Scubert and Bach for good measure. And some Parliament to really put the cat among the pigeons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1382295670' post='2250332'] ...I am non-plussed by some of it, love some of it (eg Bill Evans), hate lots of it (free jazz etc) but its a hell of a broad grouping. Do you really hate all of it? [/quote] Well no... 'hate' is a strong word. But I'd say generally I'd much rather listen to something else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1382441831' post='2252110'] And some Parliament to really put the cat among the pigeons... [/quote] Good job it's a garden centre and not a pet shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyvee Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1382295088' post='2250306'] To be serious, I think its just because it doesn't follow simple verse, chorus, verse, chorus etc and therefore becomes somehow mysterious, intellectual and 'pseud-y' to many. Probably the same would apply if you played some of the prog rock excesses (eg, 'Tales of Topographic Oceans') to many people. [/quote] Nicely put Clarky. As well as a musician I'm also a Jazz radio presenter and when I first got into doing this programme I had quite a few callers who said that they wanted to listen to jazz but didn't know what was going on or what to buy to listen to. So I produced a series of programmes where I picked well known "popular" songs so that the user could in their mind establish the song format and the melody chorus etc. Once that was done I then played lightly jazzed up versions of them and then later programmes I did the same process but used stronger more progressive versions of some of the songs with different instruments taking solo's and the heads etc. I went on to try to point out what instrumentation was doing what in the track. I have to say the response from the audience was incredible. They got the hang of it and for most people they just didn't understand what was supposed to be going on or what each individual instrument was being played. For the most part I got the view that a large proportion of non musicians do not, or are not able to break down a peice of music they are hearing into separate instruments so for them listening to jazz can be sort of overload, with all these sounds going on at the same time. But yes many people just turn off from jazz without even trying to work it out. I'm a lot like that with Rap and Hip hop. It leaves me totally cold. I guess this thread is an example of why it is a blessing to have so many genres of music out there to choose from. I know audiences are pretty low for jazz gigs as well but how do we change the perception and get more people to accept jazz and equally important suport it by going to gigs and buying the music. (if anyone has any self produced, written etc jazz based music, I'm alway looking for new stuff to play on air, PM me and I'll send you a postal address) Jazzyvee Edited October 22, 2013 by jazzyvee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) [quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1382448751' post='2252241'] ...a large proportion of non musicians do not, or are not able to break down a peice of music they are hearing into separate instruments... [/quote] This is quite true, and in my experience does not only apply to non-musicians! Edited October 22, 2013 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I think jazz doesn't have widespread appeal (nowadays) because it doesn't typically follow the modern song structure that our ears have become accustomed to. So to many people it just sounds strange. I think it's 'disliked' in some quarters because it's perceived as being elitist / pretentious / too clever, etc. I think that stems from the improv side of the jazz scene and the fact that good improv players do actually have to be damn good at what they do - and nobody likes a smarty pants I get the p*** taken out of me regularly by my mates for listening to jazz - and I'm no big aficionado of the genre. I just like to keep my ears open to new stuff. My mates immediately associate it with avant garde music and usually just moan with agreement when I point out that there's a big jazz influence in much of the hip hop and soul they enjoy listening to. In short: it's a very broad church, but people tend to focus on the weirder, more experimental (and perhaps less 'musical') side of things when stereotyping it. Probably because that's what best fits their dislike of the genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I tend to equate jazz with opera. I hate both equally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I like really like lots of jazz and fusion. That's it, really. Just thought I'd throw my POV in! [size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [quote name='Lfalex v1.1' timestamp='1382458688' post='2252408'] I tend to equate jazz with opera. I hate both equally [/quote] Don't get me started on opera. The birds are fat, you can't understand what they're singing and they never get their tits out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Does the 'Go Compare' man count as opera? [size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [quote name='Lfalex v1.1' timestamp='1382458688' post='2252408'] I tend to equate jazz with opera. I hate both equally [/quote] Ah, but opera is completely unlike jazz because it has one easily definable characteristic - that awful, strained-sounding, warbling, screeching vocal sound that I'm sure is very difficult to do and needs years of dedication etc etc etc ut to mind ears is quite simply terrible. I don't think there is a single characteristic that defines jazz is there? I don't dislike opera because of the music, it's purely because of the singing. An instrumental opera would be wonderful . . . . er, hang on, that's what we call 'classical' isn't it? Some wonderful and awful stuff in that genre as well but, thankfully, no vocals . . . er, well, except for choral pieces of course, which can also be quite sublime. So it's just that 'opera vocal' singing that I really cannot bear! I'm not sure I could honestly dismiss any other entire musical genre quite so emphatically - not even thrash-metal-acid-grunge-rap or similar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [quote name='spongebob' timestamp='1382461111' post='2252463'] Does the 'Go Compare' man count as opera? [/quote] He's close enough for me to call him a 'count'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1382460050' post='2252433'] Don't get me started on opera. The birds are fat, you can't understand what they're singing and they never get their tits out. [/quote] You've clearly been going to the wrong opera productions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Nothing wrong with knowing what one likes and what one doesn't like ! That said, I was pleasantly surprised to drift way off patch into a genre that normally I would be equally dismissive of - Heavy Metal. But I seriously really enjoyed some HM music posted on here by a fellow BCer ...completely unanticipated - it was musical , clever, dynamic , structured, ....and downright interesting ! Funny thing dismissing whole genres - music is such a vast and diverse universe of sound and ideas but we probably all do it from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylie Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1382436635' post='2252047'] Not too surprised at that. Probably just wanted to play "I don't want a lover" or "Say what you want" ;-) [/quote] How 'bout sixteen verses of 'Shady Grove'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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