Lowender Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) I haven't read the whole thread so let me know if this has been mentioned. I think the two biggest components against jazz are this.... One, it is not the "beat" of this generation. Anyone under 50 did not have "swing" as the pulse that drove the soundtrack of their youth. Therefore, jazz is an acquired taste and without access (schools, radio, etc) it will likely not resonate to them. It's a foreign language. "Blends" of jazz are, for the most part, a commercial attempt at mixing genres which often leads to a compromise of both styles. There have been moments throughout the years , from Blood Sweat and Tears, to Return to Forever. But the Kenny G's muzak rubbish and the big band versions of Nirvana songs just comes of as false and forced. Jazz fans aren't fooled and Nirvana fans laugh it off. The second reason is the musicians themselves. Musicians get into jazz to learn, explore and expand beyond their current knowledge and playing capability. And for that reason, it can often get indulgent and indignant. Solos go on endlessly (talk about repetition!) and so many of the musicians think of themselves superior. The irony is, 9 out of 10 of them can not groove. When they play rock, it's corny. They aren't in touch with what makes other art forms great because they're too high on their own eliteness, and THAT turns people off. BIG TIME. I grew up with jazz and I play it but there are time i get sick of the jazz-hole attitude. Those are TWO reasons. I can elaborate. Edited November 4, 2013 by Lowender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 [quote name='mr zed' timestamp='1383007103' post='2259164'] I've never been a fan of Jazz but since my better half bought herself an alto sax and started to play some basic Jazz, she has had the desire to go down to the Big Smoke and experience Ronnie Scott's. Doesn't matter who's on, she just fancied the experience. Well, last week we found ourselves down in London for a couple of days and on Thursday we got to see The Mingus Big Band who were playing there all week. The evening started really well as it looked just as expected - like something out of a 1960's London gangland movie. We ordered food and the support came on - an outfit called the Mark Gorman Trio. The compare introduced the band "and on the Bass Guitar - Laurence Cottle". Hangon, did I just hear that right? Sure enough, there was the man himself playing a rather tasty TRB5P11. We were treated to 45 minutes of pure magic by 3 virtuoso musicians. The burger and chips (or what are known as 'fries' in London) weren't half bad neither. A quick stage change and Mingus were on. A 14 piece band who are based in New York and anchored by Boris Kozlov on double bass. This guy was just brilliant as were the whole band. If you ever get the opportunity......do it. So, as someone who has no interest in Jazz, I would say that anything done well live can be enjoyed by anyone who isn't blinkered to a specific genre. (On the Friday we went to see The Commitments on the West End and again the music was impeccable. Off to see the Stereophonics on 14th Nov in Manchester). Still not sure I could get on with Opera though! [/quote] I'm glad you had such a good time. I work there and its always nice to hear good things said about ronnies (i'm the engineer with the basschat necklace on if your interested) i've found that pretty much everyone who comes in with an open mind has pretty much the same experience although listening to jazz recorded has never been that offensive to me experiencing it in a live venue with people who really care about the music they're playing is something else i've had so many great experiences working there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blamelouis Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 We have a lazy can't be arsed society. Jazz requires effort and mental stretching so fuuck it let's go with xfactor. Same reason mcdonalds is popular ......lazy society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 [quote name='blamelouis' timestamp='1383656874' post='2267088'] We have a lazy can't be arsed society. Jazz requires effort and mental stretching so fuuck it let's go with xfactor. Same reason mcdonalds is popular ......lazy society. [/quote] I think it's imperious attitudes like that one which does more to eschew it than the actual laziness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blamelouis Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1383657390' post='2267107'] I think it's imperious attitudes like that one which does more to eschew it than the actual laziness. [/quote] Lazy answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras52 Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 [b] Why does JAZZ seem to be so widely disliked?[/b] For me, it's the offset body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I wonder how much has to do with the time of life you happen to be in. I used to loathe jazz and found jazzers mostly arrogant, intolerant and terrible dancers. Now Jazz is almost all I listen to; everything else bores me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I've just watched 'Prog at the BBC' on iplayer and came to the same conclusion now as i did way back then. If you like Prog Rock then you're probably going to like a lot of Jazz. Without Jazz there would have been no Prog Rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) [quote name='blamelouis' timestamp='1383658406' post='2267135'] Lazy answer. [/quote] How so? How much more elaboration do you need ? Edited November 5, 2013 by Lowender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blamelouis Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 [quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1383674255' post='2267525'] How so? How much more elaboration do you need ? [/quote] Jazz elaboration ! 164 bars of explorative meandering please !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) [quote name='blamelouis' timestamp='1383656874' post='2267088'] We have a lazy can't be arsed society. Jazz requires effort and mental stretching so fuuck it let's go with xfactor. Same reason mcdonalds is popular ......lazy society. [/quote] I don't listen to music for "effort and mental stretching" and I don't consider myself a lesser person because of it. If people play and listen to jazz because they simply like the sound of it than thats great, but any notion of objective superiority is simply self delusion. Edited November 5, 2013 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowender Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 [quote name='blamelouis' timestamp='1383686478' post='2267766'] Jazz elaboration ! 164 bars of explorative meandering please !! [/quote] lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 [quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1383346906' post='2263574'] At it's core, music [b]is[/b] based on repetition, so that statement in that exact wording will fall in the very first stages of a serious discussion. You may wish to rephrase. [/quote] Fair point. I guess it's a question of degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 [quote name='blamelouis' timestamp='1383656874' post='2267088'] We have a lazy can't be arsed society. Jazz requires effort and mental stretching so fuuck it let's go with xfactor. Same reason mcdonalds is popular ......lazy society. [/quote] I get what your trying to say about us as a society on a whole, but I don't agree Jazz requires "Mental Stretching" to enjoy, or I most likely wouldn't enjoy it. Playing it is of course another matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1383750506' post='2268547'] I get what your trying to say about us as a society on a whole, but I don't agree Jazz requires "Mental Stretching" to enjoy, or I most likely wouldn't enjoy it. Playing it is of course another matter. [/quote] I agree with that. I remember in the 70s reading about music by Varese, Xenakis, Stockhausen etc and that it can be difficult to listen too. When i actually started listening to it i didn't find it difficult at all. I realised some years later that as i had been listening to Ornette Coleman, Sun Ra, Cecil Taylor etc for some time it was just another type of music. I can't read music or have any understanding of music theory but simply know what i like. I think generally people think far too much about music rather than just listening to it. Who cares what label it's under, just enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I find Jazz hard to get on with because it leaves me cold, can't explain why, modern jazz seems to be played mostly by self indulgent musicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 [quote name='waynepunkdude' timestamp='1383752979' post='2268607'] I find Jazz hard to get on with because it leaves me cold, can't explain why, [/quote] Because you simply dont like it, thats OK. Some people do like it, thats OK too. Neither require rationalisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Makes you wonder why London currently has its jazz festival running for the 21st year in a row, surely [i]if[/i] it really is so universally disliked, nobody would turn up for it, so it'd be a waste of time, or maybe it's just this thread that's a waste of time . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Arkadin Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1383660956' post='2267210'] I've just watched 'Prog at the BBC' on iplayer and came to the same conclusion now as i did way back then. If you like Prog Rock then you're probably going to like a lot of Jazz. Without Jazz there would have been no Prog Rock. [/quote] Well I am a Prog nut and I can't stand a lot of jazz. Sure I have a bit of Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock and even some Ben Webster, but no huge collection. I don't mind jazz elements in other music styles, but a lot of it, like a previous commentator said, leaves me cold. To those claiming some lack of mental stretching on the listener's part, my music collection includes Glass, Reich, Branca, Varese, Ligeti, Penderecki, Tallis, Purcell, Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Cage, Bach, Beethoven, Schoenberg, Xenakis, Partch as well us more regular pop, world and rock music. Some of that stuff is descibed as 'difficult'. I listen and if it gets me on a gut level then I like it, regardless of how intellectual it is or isn't. So if Jazz was going to grab me it should have done it by now, but it never has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1383755612' post='2268651'] Because you simply dont like it, thats OK. Some people do like it, thats OK too. Neither require rationalisation. [/quote] + a few billion! Not only does it apply to jazz but also to every other genre of music ever invented, and yet to be invented, as well as types of bass, types of amps, types of cabs, types of strings, types of cables, types of recording media, everything on the TV, all cinema, all art . . . . (cont'd on p94) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Jazz *isn't* widely disliked. Honestly, it isn't. The definition of jazz (if there can even be one) is so wide-ranging that I'd wager nearly everyone likes at least [i]some[/i] "jazz"---whether that be dixieland big bands, 40s swing, Sinatra ballads, cool-era Miles, fusion-rock era miles, funk-fusion Weather Report, etc etc etc. Saying that jazz is unpopular because lots of people don't like the extended solo stuff is like saying that rock music is unpopular because lots of people don't like death metal. A better question to ask would be "why is jazz the butt of all the musical jokes?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1383748464' post='2268507'] I guess it's a question of degree. [/quote] I'm totally with you on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1383755612' post='2268651'] Because you simply dont like it, thats OK. Some people do like it, thats OK too. Neither require rationalisation. [/quote] Statements like that could kill off basschat , be careful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seashell Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1383760941' post='2268754'] Jazz *isn't* widely disliked. Honestly, it isn't. The definition of jazz (if there can even be one) is so wide-ranging that I'd wager nearly everyone likes at least [i]some[/i] "jazz"---whether that be dixieland big bands, 40s swing, Sinatra ballads, cool-era Miles, fusion-rock era miles, funk-fusion Weather Report, etc etc etc. Saying that jazz is unpopular because lots of people don't like the extended solo stuff is like saying that rock music is unpopular because lots of people don't like death metal. A better question to ask would be "why is jazz the butt of all the musical jokes?". [/quote] Excellent post! You often hear people say 'I don't like jazz but....' and then go on to list a whole load of stuff they do like, which could be cateorised as jazz in one of it's many forms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1383760941' post='2268754'] A better question to ask would be "why is jazz the butt of all the musical jokes?". [/quote] OK so 50% of musical jokes are about jazz, the 50% about drummers, got to feel sorry for jazz drummers ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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