you cant beat fender, They got it right.....

[JapanAxe]

Although the original designs got so much right, surely few will argue if I say that (1) much current Fender output misses the mark, and (2) many other makers' takes on these designs do the job better? **hides under table and places hands over ears**

[The Dark Lord]

Check out this winning Precision sound test by some North American youtuber.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLlzYN4_lrU

You don't need anything else.

[peteb]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1372440413' post='2125838']
cool... but why the need to mod? (honest question, I've had my main bass and modded quite a few things on it, but why buy a bass knowing you're going to mod it? why not just buy a different bass?
[/quote]
You’re kinda missing the point about the whole reason why I would buy a Fender i.e. to get more gigs because from my experience (and 51m0n’s – see post #117 above) bandleaders & sections of the blues audience prefer the image of a Fender.

I am not totally immune from this myself of course and I have owned several Fenders in the past. I still have a very cool looking Fender Jazz Bass in lake placid blue, but as with every Fender I have ever owned I have put a far better bridge on as I have never liked the BBOT. I usually change the pick-ups and these days I prefer an active circuit. Actually, I think this is of the good things about Fenders – essentially they are good basic workhorses that you can easily mod to suit your own tastes and style…

[AndyTravis]

I don't know if the comparison has been made, but In my head, I see Fender Precision and Jazz basses like Converse Chuck Taylor/All Stars.

Outdated (to some) useless (to some) uncomfortable (to some) and modern technology and research means they 'shouldn't' still exist.

Often copied.


Style icons, serve a great purpose, a classic.

I could wear Nike Shox, and they're a superior shoe to an all star in most respects...but I've paid 4 times more to wear springy shoes and I'll not run faster than I did in the converse.

If you want to play a fender, do it, if you want to play an 8-string fan-fret multi laminated rare wood job; please do it.

Classics need no defence, but if I'd spent £1000's on an unknown luthier built bass I'd probably want everyone to know how much 'better' it was than an 'off the peg' bass.

Each to their own, I like my converse all stars...

[Kiwi]

Fender also manufactured product and won market saturation at a time when baby boomers were redefining western culture through music. My 75 jazz sounds good, but so do my other basses. The Fender also sounds familiar and I suggest familiar doesn't make it better.

Bring back the 70's and 80's I say, that was a period when there was a sense of adventure and originality in bass guitar tastes (or fashion). All this 'they got it right' is nothing more than post rationalisation for what sounds familiar IMO. Stick any bass, including Rickenbacker, in the same position of having achieved market saturation and the CEO of that company would be proclaimed a genius for having 'got it right'.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1372454938' post='2126077']
Stick any bass, including Rickenbacker, in the same position of having achieved market saturation and the CEO of that company would be proclaimed a genius for having 'got it right'.
[/quote]

Except he didn't design it. He bought it.

[bubinga5]

feel/tone/asthetics, is in the eye of the beholder. thats it. there is no argument against thiS. thats it.. i love the tone of my 75 ri jazz. the tone inspires me to play. its just one of those things. doesnt make it right. doesnt make Fender the best bass manufacturer of electric basses... there are alot of basses that have that Fender P bass/ J bass vibe.

there are are so many variables to any instrument. we could go into the details... my point is you play what works for you. that be a squire, or a Sadowsky.. i ask one question,.. does your bass help you play good music.?

Edited June 29, 2013 by bubinga5

[clashcityrocker]

I've just sold a fender jazz to buy my Warwick. The Warwick is awesome but I'm already finding myself looking for a natural/maple jazz....that's what fender does for me,always need one floating about its a curse.help me

[xgsjx]

One thing they never got right first time (& still haven't) is that hideous top horn! I'd still have a Jazz bass though.

[neepheid]

Type. Delete it all. Type. Delete it all. Type. Delete it all. Shake head and walk away.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1372407701' post='2125287']
Different genre of music, different fashions!
[/quote]

Not really that different...

Most of the bands that we get to play with are playing music that has its roots in rock n roll and the blues.

The biker rally was essentially 70s influenced rock bands so you would have expected to see some Fenders present. Maybe all the bands that played in the afternoon who I didn't get to see were using them!

For the bands that the Terrortones share the bill with (not counting the hardcore Psychobillies who are strictly double bass users) on the whole Fender basses are no more prevalent than any other make.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='clashcityrocker' timestamp='1372489057' post='2126284']
I've just sold a fender jazz to buy my Warwick. The Warwick is awesome but I'm already finding myself looking for a natural/maple jazz....that's what fender does for me,always need one floating about its a curse.help me
[/quote]

I'll sell you one. (ok it's sunburst!)

[4 Strings]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1372494316' post='2126341']
Not really that different...

Most of the bands that we get to play with are playing music that has its roots in rock n roll and the blues.

The biker rally was essentially 70s influenced rock bands so you would have expected to see some Fenders present. Maybe all the bands that played in the afternoon who I didn't get to see were using them!

For the bands that the Terrortones share the bill with (not counting the hardcore Psychobillies who are strictly double bass users) on the whole Fender basses are no more prevalent than any other make.
[/quote]

I agree. I would have to suggest that, from my very limited experience, those who play at home with loop pedals generally have basses other than Fender.

[chris_b]

You can like or (surely not) dislike Fender basses but Leo Fender's company not only blitzed the bass playing universe from day one, they did the same thing to guitar players.

Most guitarists I see on TV and every guitarist I play with these days is either using a Strat or a Tele. Every last one I've played with in the last 20 years has used a Fender combo of one sort or another.

The Rhodes is an iconic keyboard sound and with the Wurlitzer and Hammond pretty much defined keyboards until the synth came along.

I understand exactly what the OP means.

[peteb]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1372500041' post='2126435']
You can like or (surely not) dislike Fender basses but Leo Fender's company not only blitzed the bass playing universe from day one, they did the same thing to guitar players.

Most guitarists I see on TV and every guitarist I play with these days is either using a Strat or a Tele. Every last one I've played with in the last 20 years has used a Fender combo of one sort or another.

The Rhodes is an iconic keyboard sound and with the Wurlitzer and Hammond pretty much defined keyboards until the synth came along.

I understand exactly what the OP means.
[/quote]
I don't agree with the OP that you can't beat Fender, not least because I think that many companies these days do Fender better than Fender do e.g. Lakland, Lull, etc! However I have to agree with what you say about Leo's impact on music and electric musical instruments.

At the blues festival I mentioned earlier, nearly every guitar player had a Fender Strat...

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1372448659' post='2125962']
Check out this winning Precision sound test by some North American youtuber.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLlzYN4_lrU[/media]

You don't need anything else.
[/quote]

I didn't get this at all.

Unknown bass player plays vaguely similar riffs on four variants of a P-bass. Each has a different set-up (note the silly-low action on the '51 RI), different strings (particularly the 5-year-old Rotos on the '74), and obviously different pickups.

Where was the informative comparison? What did this video tell me?

[chris_b]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1372500783' post='2126448']
....I don't agree with the OP....
[/quote]

I said I understood the OP's point. That's different.

I own a Lakland and a Lull, but I wouldn't rule out a Fender 5 string at some time if I found one that worked for me.

It would have to be a 3 tone sunburst, though!!

[chris_b]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1372500827' post='2126449']
....I didn't get this at all....
[/quote]

+1

Clanky bass does nothing for me.

[cloudburst]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1372500827' post='2126449']
I didn't get this at all.

Unknown bass player plays vaguely similar riffs on four variants of a P-bass. Each has a different set-up (note the silly-low action on the '51 RI), different strings (particularly the 5-year-old Rotos on the '74), and obviously different pickups.

Where was the informative comparison? What did this video tell me?
[/quote]

I know what it tells me. This guy is as irritating as hell. I'm sure I've heard him before talking complete rubbish about the history of the jazz bass. Perhaps that was some other American. The only decent tone I heard in the whole clip was the first couple of seconds of the black/black 70s P Bass.

CB

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1372500827' post='2126449']
I didn't get this at all.

Unknown bass player plays vaguely similar riffs on four variants of a P-bass. Each has a different set-up (note the silly-low action on the '51 RI), different strings (particularly the 5-year-old Rotos on the '74), and obviously different pickups.

Where was the informative comparison? What did this video tell me?
[/quote]

I told me that they all sounded real good. Who cares about the strings ya-de-ya-de-yada ..... them there basses sound like basses should.

Proper.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1372500827' post='2126449']
I didn't get this at all.

Unknown bass player plays vaguely similar riffs on four variants of a P-bass. Each has a different set-up (note the silly-low action on the '51 RI), different strings (particularly the 5-year-old Rotos on the '74), and obviously different pickups.

Where was the informative comparison? What did this video tell me?
[/quote]

What if he was well known?

[peteb]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1372510142' post='2126603']
I told me that they all sounded real good. Who cares about the strings ya-de-ya-de-yada ..... them there basses sound like basses should.

Proper.
[/quote]
But does this sound ‘proper’?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6XbvvFOSS4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6XbvvFOSS4[/url]
And if not, why not??

[discreet]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1372491809' post='2126307']One thing they never got right first time (& still haven't) is that hideous top horn![size=4][/quote][/size]
[size=4]At least Fender's top horns are largely balanced with the bottom ones. Some brands are not. For example, I find most Warwick basses' top horns aesthetically displeasing. They either look like a badly-designed wooden dog-dildo, or some kind of bizarre alien jug-teat. And the bottom horns are like some weirdly-stunted vestigial cetacean underflipper. IMHO, of course. [/size]

Edited June 29, 2013 by discreet

[peteb]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1372514909' post='2126673']
[/size]
[size=4]At least Fender's top horns are largely balanced with the bottom ones. Some brands are not. For example, I find most Warwick basses' top horns aesthetically displeasing. They either look like a badly-designed wooden dog-dildo, or some kind of bizarre alien jug-teat. And the bottom horns are like some-weirdly stunted vestigial cetacean underflipper. IMHO, of course. [/size]
[/quote]
Aesthetically, I love both Fender and Warwick designs (well at least the Streamer) even thru they are completely different…

[skankdelvar]

Given his background as a radio repairman, it's a minor miracle that Mr Fender conceived the basis for a pair of specialist instruments for which time and variety has produced no competitor of any significant volume.

Agreed, Paul Tutmarc remains the unlauded inventor of the electric bass, certain details might have been better executed and the headstock design may have been nicked from Paul Bigsby. It's equally true that many people were involved in bringing the products to market. This does not detract from the general 'rightness' of the designs and execution, even allowing for cumulative improvements by Fender themselves and by others.

We tend to see P's and J's just as themselves, uninfluenced by anything before or since. Some of us may detect a fifties styling. The truth is that both embody the precept of form following function, delivered through engineering rather than classic luthiery. Were there a better way of doing it, P's and J's would be forgotten by history and we'd most all of us be playing something radically different.

One may add that Mr Fender's innovative approach to manufacture provided the means to lower the price point and open up the market to many more people than could have aspired to traditionally constructed instruments.

Thing is, the story of Fender is the story of three successive companies. It's easy to forget that - only about 30 years ago - Fender was regarded as a dead duck by its owners CBS and sold for what history would regard as a negligible price. For Fender's current pre-eminence, credit should go to the late Mr Bill Schulz and his colleagues for a stunningly successful long-haul turnaround.

The reasons P's and J's are still pretty much at the top of the marketplace are Leo's design and Schulz's gameplan.