How good are High End Basses?

[Paul S]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1322395314' post='1450200']
Your money, your call.
[/quote]

That's about the end of the discussion so far as I can see. If someone has the money and wants to spend it, irrespective of their ability or what they are doing with it, that's a matter between them and their bank balance. Personally I would rather buy 10 basses for £200 each than one for £2000 but that is just my preference.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1322398401' post='1450260']
"Good" when it comes to the upper end of the musical instrument market (which IMO for a bass is £2000+) is entirely subjective.

At the mass-produced end of the market the instruments are designed to appeal to as many players as possible. Beyond that the luthiers who make "high end" basses are catering to a much smaller audience of players who want specific features from their instruments.

At this level the basses only have two things in common:

1. The attention to detail/fit/finish/construction will be exceptional.

2. They are stringed instruments capable of producing low notes.

Everything else is down to the tastes and ideas of the luthier making the bass. That's why you can't compare "high end" instruments to each other because they are made to appeal to different people. What you are buying into at this level is not just an instrument that will do the job, but one that satisfies you on every level - sound, playability, looks.

If you've found a cheaper bass that ticks all the boxes for you then that's fantastic, but many of us want something more or different and that's where the more expensive basses come in.
[/quote]
The only thing I would say is the OP did included things like Allevas etc where they are no different to the [i]whole host [/i]of other super Jazz type basses are they really?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1322398401' post='1450260']
"Good" when it comes to the upper end of the musical instrument market (which IMO for a bass is £2000+) is entirely subjective.

At the mass-produced end of the market the instruments are designed to appeal to as many players as possible. Beyond that the luthiers who make "high end" basses are catering to a much smaller audience of players who want specific features from their instruments.

At this level the basses only have two things in common:

1. The attention to detail/fit/finish/construction will be exceptional.

2. They are stringed instruments capable of producing low notes.

Everything else is down to the tastes and ideas of the luthier making the bass. That's why you can't compare "high end" instruments to each other because they are made to appeal to different people. What you are buying into at this level is not just an instrument that will do the job, but one that satisfies you on every level - sound, playability, looks.

If you've found a cheaper bass that ticks all the boxes for you then that's fantastic, but many of us want something more or different and that's where the more expensive basses come in.
[/quote]
BRX sums it up very neatly I think.

I'd just add that any bass 'high end' or 'low end' is only as 'good' as the person playing it.

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1322398602' post='1450263']
That's about the end of the discussion so far as I can see. If someone has the money and wants to spend it, irrespective of their ability or what they are doing with it, that's a matter between them and their bank balance. Personally I would rather buy 10 basses for £200 each than one for £2000 but that is just my preference.
[/quote]
This and ultimately it's supply and demand that pushes the prices sky high on boutique basses. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that pretty much the case with Fodera, Alembic, Sadowsky, etc, etc?

And to answer the OP - They can be the best thing you've ever handled if it ticks all your boxes! The key is to definitely [i]make sure[/i] it ticks your boxes first...


edit:to answer the OP!

Edited November 27, 2011 by jonthebass

[BigRedX]

[quote name='jonthebass' timestamp='1322399091' post='1450281']
This and ultimately it's supply and demand that pushes the prices sky high on boutique basses. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that pretty much the case with Fodera, Alembic, Sadowsky, etc, etc?
[/quote]
Yes and no.

There's an interview with Simon Farmer of Gus Guitars where he says that building one of his instruments takes 150 hours of labour. Even at minimum wage levels that's around £1000 (and you'd hope that a talented luthier would price their skills somewhat higher). Then there's materials, tools and machinery, R&D, workspace costs etc. It all adds up pretty quickly.

There are some instruments that are priced simply to try and keep the demand at more sensible levels and reduce waiting time for customers, but I would guess that many more are in that bracket because that's how much it costs to make them.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1322398602' post='1450263']
Personally I would rather buy 10 basses for £200 each than one for £2000 but that is just my preference.
[/quote]

And that's exactly the reverse of my reasoning. Having owned lots of cheap or relatively cheap basses at the same time, I came to the conclusion that I'd rather concentrate that £2000 in one really good bass than have it diluted across a bunch of similar, OK basses.

Horses for courses, etc.

[huwgarms]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1322336603' post='1449655']
I've just bought a Ritter - for me it's worth every penny.

Simple difference for me on some of the more expensive basses I've owned I that they allow me to play stuff I struggle to play on other basses.

I love my three main basses - Ritter, Fodera & Alleva Coppolo. Each is quite different from the other but each gives me great pleasure every time I play them and, for me, that's what it's all about
[/quote]

that for me would be the reason to spend all that extra, but why is it the case they allow you to play better?

[JTUK]

[size=5][sub]I have no doubt what my next bass will be and it will cost me quite a bit.[/sub][/size]
[size=5][sub]Since it will take a year to build..!! I have plenty of time to save up the final total [/sub][/size]
[size=5][sub]but then I'll have 3 excellent..IMO..basses...and that is more than enough for what I do. [/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]I can't see the point of owning many more than you can't or wont or don't play...so I'd pay £2000 plus for one great bass rather than 10 less great basses.[/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]Even then....3 basses will be an indulgence and will probably spell the end of one of them.[/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]Just need to decide to pull that trigger...!![/sub][/size]

[Paul S]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1322403806' post='1450376']
[size=5][sub]I can't see the point of owning many more than you can't or wont or don't play.[/sub][/size]
[/quote]

In my case I have become interested in the minutiae of these middle of the road basses. Especially lightweight made in Japan/Oriental jobs. Like a lot of things in Life the interest has developed beyond the simple nuts and bolts of playing (for which they do the job admirably). I am sure I will move on - I usually do with my sideline interests. You should see my greenhouse!

As has been said - horses for courses. If folks come by their money honestly I see no reason why they can't spend it exactly how they like.

[LukeFRC]

Part of me would like to sell all 3 basses I have and buy just one awesome bass- money no option.
but I won't - cos I have no idea what I would want. Maybe one day I will pick up a £3k bass and know that it's the bass for me- but I don't. The JV fits my hands perfectly and is just wonderful, the streamer is brilliant - and £100 on pickups would possibly make it sound like I would want it to.... so could I replace them with one amazing bass. Yes I could- but would I want the risk on it not being better.

[molan]

[quote name='huwgarms' timestamp='1322401212' post='1450328']


that for me would be the reason to spend all that extra, but why is it the case they allow you to play better?
[/quote]

I think it's a combination of things, build quality, ability to work with a really low action, general feel and neck profile etc.

I think there's also an element of confidence that goes with owning a beautifully built instrument that inspires you to push yourself harder

For me it really is a matter of degrees and the differences can be marginal, one of my favourite ever basses was a lovely Celinder J that wasn't a vast amount better than a 2010 Fender J I had at the time. However, it certainly was a 'better' bass for me and I could afford to own it ahead of the Fender.

Given the option I would always for a smaller number of great basses over a larger number of noes that didn't excite me as much.

[deepbass5]

[quote name='hubrad' timestamp='1322323960' post='1449435']
If it really talks to you, you'll know whether it's worth it.
If not, why worry?
[/quote]

Nothing else to say really, I only ever ask a shop to plug a bass in to try, If one says "you Like me don't you" Shops should provide blind folds to eliminate any pre judgment.

[Pete Academy]

I love my Roscoe. It's the dog's bollocks.

[stingrayPete1977]

It should also be pointed out that a lot of people who diss the top end gear on web forums have never tried them.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1322420736' post='1450687']
It should also be pointed out that a lot of people who diss the top end gear on web forums have never tried them.
[/quote]

yeah I never got that. "Sadowskys are a waste of money- I've only seen them in magazines but that's what I think" makes no sense

[edstraker123]

Having previously splashed out on 3 Shukers ,an ACG and an Overwater, the bass I've I've finally ended up keeping is a Lodestone Primal Artist which cost half the price of the Overwater. Not as sexy by any means, but ticks all of the boxes for me. It's interesting to see how many custom builds end up at a fraction of their original cost in the marketplace.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1322420736' post='1450687']
It should also be pointed out that a lot of people who diss the top end gear on web forums have never tried them.
[/quote]
Some people dis low end gear wihtout trying it too.

[thodrik]

I really don't understand at what point a bass becomes a 'high end bass'. I class anything beyond a US Standard to be high end. I suppose we are comparing 'high end' to 'higher high end' when we compare Roscoe, Vigier, Spector etc to Ritter, Alembic and Fodera. At that point what is 'good' depends on the person playing it and what they want from the instrument. I have no need for a Ritter, Alembic or Fodera, but if somebody wants to buy one, then good for them.

[Conan]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1322420736' post='1450687']
It should also be pointed out that a lot of people who diss the top end gear on web forums have never tried them.
[/quote]

Absolutely. I own a 1980s Status and I think it is the canine orchids. I tried a five string Alembic Epic (to be fair, one of their 'budget' range) and thought it was OK. My second fave (after my Status) is a Squier Affinity P bass (with, to be fair, upgraded pickups).

I have never tried a Ritter or Fodera. I would like to... but part of me can't help thinking I would be disappointed in some way. Another part of me can't help fearing that i wouldn't be - and would never be satisfied with anything less!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1322422252' post='1450713']

Some people dis low end gear wihtout trying it too.
[/quote]

Most people have a good test of it on the way up and it can all be tried in your local guitar shop, my own Squier Jazz is fantastic so your preaching to the converted anyway.

I'm lucky to have a group of friends with examples of all the gear mentioned in this thread who meet up and have a good test of them as often as we can (amps too) , my pre EB or 2010 Ray 5 both just a shade under 2K each to replace are usually the budget basses in the room
Most of the high end basses have been very very nice

[RhysP]

[quote name='edstraker123' timestamp='1322421729' post='1450698']
It's interesting to see how many custom builds end up at a fraction of their original cost in the marketplace.
[/quote]

For people like me who have expensive tastes & are happy to buy secondhand it's a godsend - I'd never have been able to afford to own my two Zons if I'd had to buy them new.

[stingrayPete1977]

I always prefer to play before I buy anyway, in fact everything I own now was test driven before purchase so I'm not sure if a personal build is such a good idea for me? Plenty of already nice ones out there for me to buy, them Celinders play very well!

[OliverBlackman]

how good is high end gear? pretty damn good

Edited November 27, 2011 by blackmn90

[4 Strings]

Would I be right in saying that these incredibly expensive works of art are largely bought by enthusiastic amateurs and professionals use flights of less fancy? Certainly the ones I've seen.

[louisthebass]

I don't normally chip in on these threads as IMO any bass that each individual uses as their main bass is the instrument that "does it" for them. There are a lot of really good quality basses which are factory made out there which are more than capable of covering most things.

I've got what would be classed as a high end bass which was made for me, and I'm fully aware that it's resale value is not even half of what I paid for it. However, I absolutely love it and would be absolutely gutted if I had to sell it. It doesn''t make me a better player than anyone else, but every time I pick it up and play it, the instrument [i]inspires[/i] me to be a better player.