xgsjx Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='Stu-khag' timestamp='1322207788' post='1447815'] I'm pretty sure I read his mam was classically trained and immersed him in music [/quote] I thought it was water that he got immersed in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1322168235' post='1447588'] Did I get a Knack for mechanics because it was hereditary or because I was around my Dad who did it 6 days a week for the early days of my life? Constantly watching him,being his Gofer and generally taking it all in. If it's hereditary where did my Dad get it my granda couldn't wire a plug. In fact he got stuck in a boat one day and it turned out the fuel pipe had fallen off. My brother is about as much use as a fart in a space suit when it comes to fixing things so how come some didn't rub of on him.? [/quote] This! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibody Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 My Maternal Grandfather was an organist in a Methodist Church. Both my Mum and my real Dad were folkies - my mum could play everything by ear from a penny whistle via an accordian to envy inducing fingterstyle guitar, and sing too. I think I got into music more as a result of the quality of stuff I was exposed to as a kid - mum always had 50's Rock n Roll, The Stones, The Who, Moody Blues, The Hollies, The Band and a host of folk stuff (Mostly Tom Paxton, Donovan, Ralph McTell) on the record player with a bit of Motown thrown into the mix. Time with mum was spent listening to her play "Streets of London", "Last Thing on my Mind", "Universal Soldier" and the like. She never pushed me into playng, I just discovered (rather late) at 19 that I had mums ear (just not mums voice or at least the balls to sing, or her ability to harmonise), and fell in love with the Bass. My older estranged brother is quite the guitarist (Apparently), and my second Cousin is a pretty fine drummer - he has a few drum covers on Youtube under the name of DrummerDave - he's currently studdying Music Technology at Leeds. On the other hand, my half brother is as musical as a barrel of cats!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I think some people can pick certain things up very quickly, and this gives the impression of a "natural ability" or talent. Some kids start talking very early in life for example, and they're often described as "gifted" or special in some way, but as soon as all their peers are talking too they seem a lot less talented in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaypup Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I think if one's parents are musicians or musically active then it's incredibly hard to tell if it's nature or nurture is responsible for a child's musical ability. If there were a case of a child being adopted into a non-musical family but had been born from a very musical family, or vice versa, then we could see what factors had played the dominant role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='Nibody' timestamp='1322211029' post='1447863'] On the other hand, my half brother is as musical as a barrel of cats!! [/quote] I've heard some things referred to as jazz that sound just like a barrel of cats so don't write your half brother off just yet, some nutter might just say "wow thats really outside the box, mannnn" I dont think its necessarily just the home you grow up in though. I was massively influenced by just wanting to be part of a group with mates. Also what country you grow up in. Your more likely to have a better understanding of complicated rhythms if you grew up in cuba compared to growing up in nottingham as thats how the traditional music is there compared to straight eighth stuff we seem to have far too much of here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [size=4][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial]If you are born with your brain wired up in a way that makes you significantly better at music, painting, sport, languages or teaching then that wiring can be passed on to your kids, and they will usually be better at whatever it is than most because of that advantage. That’s talent or natural ability being inherited.[/font][/color][/color][/font][/font][/color][/color][/font][/size] [size=4][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/color][/font][font="Arial"][size="2"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color][/color][/size][/font][/font][/color][/color][/font][/size] [size=4][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial]Being born taller for a basketball player and being born with a bigger heart for an endurance sportsman are all an inbuilt advantages which can be passed between generations. [/font][/color][/color][/font][font="Arial"][size="2"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color][/color][/size][/font][/font][/color][/color][/font][/size] [size=4][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/color][/font][font="Arial"][size="2"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color][/color][/size][/font][/font][/color][/color][/font][/size] [size=4][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial]99% perspiration is about making the best of the other 1% but if you haven’t got that spark then perspiration is all it will ever be,[/font][/color][/color][/font][/font][/color][/color][/font][/size] [size=4][font="Arial"][color="#222222"][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/color][/font][/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I think there is an argument that we don't know what makes people into great musicians. Nurture, yes. Nature, yes.Environment, yes. But what about opportunity? Wealth? Geography? Culture (most classical music students are from middle class backgrounds, the best tabla players tend to come from India etc)? Work ethic? In truth, its all of these and none of these at the same time. Its more likely to be the ways in which all of these factors interact. Someone with natural ability who is not encouraged may or may not sound better that someone who has little 'natural' ability but who has supportive people around them. Someone with no talent but a good work ethic may be better that someone with perfect pitch who is lazy. And so on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Both! Their will be influences that begin in-utero (and possibly earlier if you believe some of the thinking on epigenetics), so basically it's impossible to completely separate the genetic and environmental influences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 In reply to the OP, I'd say it pretty much was...but there are other thing in there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I believe that it is more a case of absorbing the information at a young age. A childs brain is like a sponge, so if they are exposed to a musical environment for example, then they are absorbing this information both conciously and un-conciously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1322213499' post='1447910'] Your more likely to have a better understanding of complicated rhythms if you grew up in cuba compared to growing up in nottingham as thats how the traditional music is there compared to straight eighth stuff we seem to have far too much of here [/quote] Not completely true. I know some Indian Classical Musicians and a lot of their traditional music is written in 10/8 and other structures/time signatures that us western musicians would call 'uncommon' or 'odd'. They think that 4/4 is a really tricky time signature, because (musically) it is totally different to the rhythms they are used to. They would find "straight eighth stuff" anything but straight forward to play. Just shows that cultural understanding and the nurture of your musicianship can really affect how you comprehend musical ideas from other cultures. Edited November 25, 2011 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I can't say any of my family are particularly musical besides myself, but my dad always had a well stocked CD collection so I was exposed to a wide variety of music from a young age. Without that I'd have been at a disadvantage I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I do come from a quite musical background, although my mum and sister are very good musically and we had some very good musicial people on my dad's side of the family, my dad never picked up on any of it. I'm not massively great musically I must say but I think that's just because I don't really practice enough, or the right things. Personally I don't think "talent" exists. It's all about having an interest in a subject and HARD WORK. It reminds me of one of my friends at uni who is constantly asking me why I get such high marks or why I'm so "clever". I tell him that cleverness has nothing to do with it, it's just that I actually have enough time to work through all the questions we're set and seek guidance when I've not got something right, whereas he has no time to do any of this because he's always at work or with his girlfriend who forced him to move in with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I think you need to make the distinction about talent and progress. Hard work can get the motor skills up to a very high level...but that inate extra something..??? you can't teach that. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I don't really agree with the notion of "Talent". Talent suggests some element or unknown ingredient that favours an individual. I don't believe in it. Some people may be more physically adept or think in a way that is more condusive to the thing that we might call them talented in but thats not talent. I prefer to say skill which i see as the result of hard work. In almost every biography i have read of people who have excelled in their field the common thread is dedication and hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1322220598' post='1448064'] ...but that inate extra something..??? you can't teach that. IMO. [/quote] Or define it, it would seem. Personally, I don't believe that "inate extra something" is anything more than further/wider development of musicianship as a result of the individual's learning style. Some people are very singular in their learning style, so need to practice harder to make up for their slower progression through physical (kinesthetic) OR auditory OR visual learning. Some individuals are good all-rounders and can learn new things through all of these styles at once, and in music that's a valuable asset. This is the most likely cause of that "inate extra something" you discussed. Whether this can be described as a 'talent' is a different matter Edited November 25, 2011 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I should probably add at this stage that my older sister is a great guitarist and bass player, the the rest of my band are four brothers... and they're my cousins as well. Without blowing my (our??) own trumpet, we can all play, so I think there is something to be said for creativity to be found in families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 when using a family who all play as an example, you might as well use a group of people who all hang out together and come from a very musical village. If you grew up in a very musical family, how could you possibly tell that it was genes passing on the skills, rather than experience. There's no-one that I know of in my family who's ever been "musical". I was really interested in music and my mate bought a guitar, so I copied him. A few years later my brothers got into piano and cello respectively. They could have been very good, and then we'd be regarded as "three musical brothers", despite the fact it has nothing to do with the fact that we're related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 That inate extra....?? best sumed up for me, like this. Gazza... for example.. Couldn't string two sentences together, pretty much, but was two or three moves ahead of his teammates. Football made sense and was easy for him whereas as others were journeymen by comparison...and generally in a field of sporting excellence as far as most other people who 'played' football were concerned. I mean, we can all kick a ball about..and some work very hard to make the most of their physical attributes..and then there is another level that very very few inhabit. Gazza is still regarded as the best British player of his generation..and there has been no one since, and that was 15 plus years ago...as yet...!! That is what I regard as that inate something extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1322166367' post='1447552'] I recently posted a thread about talent...is it inherited? Earlier this evening I visited a couple (my ex-wife and her hubby) who are both talented musicians (sax and piano). Their 8-year-old daughter was eager to perform her skills for me on clarinet and piano. She played faultlessly. I asked her parents how long she had been playing. Apparently since September. I thought she might have put in around an hour a night to reach her standard of playing. No...5 to 10 mins a night. This has firmly convinced me that talent is definitely hereditary. Any similar stories? [/quote] Personally - I think what she's inherited is a love of music and a desire to play it - plus she surrounded by people willing and able to help. I'm not sure I ever believed in 'talent'. I think the more work you put in the more skillful you get - some will find that work easier than others , probably because of their circumstances. I think it's pretty much common knowledge too that youngsters can lap up information by the bucketload when stimulated and interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaypup Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Gareth Pearson (The virtuoso guitarist) was asked if he was aware of his talent before he started playing guitar and he replied that he didn't have talent he just played for 14 hours a day and worked really hard at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I suppose it can work in other ways too. At school there was one kid who was just the best at every sport we did. His brother was the same in his year, as was their sister in hers. And at Sports Day, the parents used to win everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 [quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1322166759' post='1447562'] To kick off the controversy i dont believe in the word "talent" as its commonly used. Many people say it like you were born to do it. No i think you just enjoy it and improved your skills more than someone who doesnt enjoy it. [/quote] Playing music has a major physical element, and like all physical endeavours, we are not equally built and not equally able. I see it in Judo all the time... some people are simply more physically capable than others. They might have more natural coordination, balance, etc. than a fellow club member and it doesn't matter that they both train equally hard and as often and with as much enjoyment, with exactly the same training regime... one progresses quicker than the other. The same is true with music. No two peoples' hands or ears are the same and the same amount of effort spent studying the same material will not yield equal results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 What have I inherited from my old man? Well I never worry if I lock myself out. We'll leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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