Full time cover band

[lollington]

A small tear fell onto my desk earlier this afternoon whilst at work, and I wondered how great it would be to get paid (enough) to play music for a living.

I'm not a brilliant bassist, couldn't cut it as a session musician, but play alright in a group, and good enough to play your general pop or rock songs. The older I get, the more events I attend, wedding, birthday parties etc, and the cover bands there get paid quite a bit to rip off other band's music whilst everyone dances about.

Am I missing a trick here? Given enough time, could one build up enough of a reputation to get paid a few hundred quid per show and do a few of these a week? Surely everyone has had this thought before - have I finally reached the point in my [s]career[/s] job where I've had enough and want to do something fun for a living?

Obviously there's much to consider. I wonder if anyone here plays for a living? How tough is it to get going? Is it more fun than your old desk job? Are you left with enough cash in your pocket to make it financially worthwhile? (Not in a profiteering way, just enough to be comfortable)

I play in an original indie/pop/rock group at the moment. Most of my spare time is taken up with this. Ideally I'd love to get signed and leave the day job to play our original material, but I'm not [i]that[/i] much of a day dreamer. I'm guessing that to begin with, it would be weekend work, pub stuff, friends parties etc till we could start charging for events. If things go well then build up enough booked events to pack in the day job.

What are the implications? If you're earning enough cash in a group for each member to be a basic rate tax payer, do you need to pay back any royalties? Are there any other charges involved?

Perhaps I'll get out of bed on the right side tomorrow and forget all about it, but till then, it would be interesting to learn a little more...

[JTUK]

Work back from what you want to make a year..and then fill in the weekly work needed to make that.

You will prorbaly find you need a big payer per week...so that might be £250 per man on a wedding/corporate gig.

You will then need to fill up the other nights with pub work at say, £50 per head.
You are now getting close to around £350 pw... you could do a bit of teaching and make that £450..

The problem is working up to this figure... plus pulling all that work week in, week out, 50 weeks a year..

That is where it is not easy

[Dood]

A full time cover band? That's called a Tribute Act isn't it?

Sorry, joking aside - JTUK has made some good points. I'd also say that as with starting any business/ going self-employed.. Get yaself on an up to date training course specific to what you want to do and seek as much advice as possible. - Being a full time musician can work for you, but you have to feed the little devil constantly to make him pay back!!

[Mog]

As above. You'll need to find maybe 4 probably 5 other likeminded musicians that you can depend on to form a half decent function band. Then its a case of getting the right gear and transport and putting the hard work in. For the first few years you wont make enough to live on but if the band does the miles and plays well then it is possible. Not sure about the tax system in the UK but the IR is starting to come down on bands a lot over here. Best to be safe and keep tabs (sorry!) on everything.

[thepurpleblob]

I was almost in this position a couple of years ago. That's when I quit - which should tell you something.

I wasn't , and am still not, a particular good bass player in the great scheme of things but that's hardly the point. You need to be good enough, look the part, have the appropriate gear (proper PA effectively), play the right songs (inevitably ones you don't like) and - most importantly - treat it like work.

You need to play every gig you can find. If you are not playing you are looking for gigs. You need posters, leaflets, business cards. You need to find out were the high-paying gigs are (certainly around here they are usually only available through a booking agent) and go and do what it takes to get them. You need to play weddings. You need to play clubs. You need an accountant.

It just becomes a job, but one you do 4+ nights a week so you'll never see your wife/children/dog again. Still interested?

[Cat Burrito]

My guitarist is self employed as a musician. Gigs are often suplemented with lessons in the day too. Unless you are really good / a bit lucky you will be taking jobs that a semi pro might turn down too.

[warwickhunt]

As has been pointed out, what do you need to earn per month to either equal what you have now or at least get by comfortably (do you want to struggle to put bread on the table)?

Money - Covers bands can get anywhere from £150 per gig @ a little pub to £2.5k for a BIG corporate event (for which you'll need an equally big sound and light system)... now divide that by the number of band members you have (remembering a 3 piece band isn't going to be able to justify the larger corporate monies that a 6-10 piece show band can). TBH unless you and everyone of your band mates is sh1t-hot you aren't going to get those corporate gigs; weddings maybe but they are unlikely to be anywhere near as lucrative as corporates. This leaves you looking at the club or pub circuit and there is a lot of competition out there so pricing can be keen.

Hours - Playing the odd pub gig a few times a month is a laugh and if done with a bunch of mates it's a nice distraction. However... do you want to be playing EVERY weekend ALL weekend (more to the point does your other half?). I can assure you that you can't just pick and choose your dates, if you want to be earning at it you take every date offered. Club/Wedding/Corporate gigs are l o n g days, often arriving in the afternoon and sitting round twiddling thumbs for hours.

Sickness - fall sick or hurt yourself and if you are in an established high quality band (which you'd need to be to earn money) and you'll find yourself replaced pretty sharpish as you'll have all the other band members in the same boat as you i.e. needing to earn money, also agents and bookers won't can't afford to have bands on their books that cancel on a regular basis.

The band - Can you find equally minded musicians to join you on this venture or are you good enough that you can beat all the other bassists to the good jobs! The best jobs are in demand and you'll need to be a reader to get the top stuff.

Actually I could go on for a while longer about accountants, equipment, travelling, pension... the boring mundane stuff but all needing to be considered. At the end of the day you can make a living out of music but you need to be good, dedicated and driven; I tried it when I was a lot younger but I must have been missing one (or two) of the previous mention prerequisites! I even tried to make playing bass pay for my way through University (mature student) and tbh even with me doing 10-12 gigs a month with combined; covers band, depping and some club work, it barely paid the mortgage and kept the car on the road.

Not trying to put you off (I still love making a bit of 'pin' money doing covers around the pub circuit but it's a hobby NOT a job) just pointing out some pitfalls and if I've made you think twice then it's no bad thing.

[TheGreek]

Have you thought about Cruise Ships?? a friend of a friend does this (vocalist) - from what I understand, I don't have the details, he seems to do alright...

[Doddy]

Yes you can do a full time cover band,I know a bunch of guys who do.
You're not going to hit big money functions straight away,and you'll end up playing a lot of pubs and clubs
around the country.That's great,but if you are travelling around you want to be earning more than the
standard pub money.Why should a club pay you £800 rather than their regular £150-200? You need to
have your stuff together both on stage and off. Is one of the band going to be in charge of all the bookings,
or are you going to go through an agency? Would you be prepared to play at holiday camps? Could you get
a call from a venue or agency in the afternoon asking you to be 200 miles that night,and guarantee that you
will all jump in the van and go?

It's do-able.....I've done it myself. I joined an established band,and later on I formed my own and did all
of this stuff.
Now,I work freelance and gig all the time in various situations,which requires a whole other set of skills.

Oh yeah.....I've never had a day job.

[Doddy]

[quote name='TheGreek' post='1127599' date='Feb 14 2011, 08:44 PM']Have you thought about Cruise Ships?? a friend of a friend does this (vocalist) - from what I understand, I don't have the details, he seems to do alright...[/quote]

Depends what you want to do on them. If you're in a band,you may be hired to do what you do for a short run,but if you
want to be in one of the main bands you'll need decent reading chops and real versatility.

[franzbassist]

A good friend of mine went from a £100k salary doing CGI on blockbuster movies to earning £40k a year gigging in a very good function band.

He works his nuts off driving all over the country pretty much every weekend, whereas he used to pull an average 12 hour day in a windowless Soho studio.

He supplements the gigs with teaching privately and in local schools.

He sees his wife and kid a whole lot more than he used to.

He is very self-motivated and proactive in getting out there.

His band get most of their gigs through two of the biggest agents in the UK, and they worked very hard to get on the books.

Am I jealous of him, playing music for a living? Yes.

Would I have the balls to give us my regular salary to do the same? No.

Is he happier now than he was? Hell yeah.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Gareth

[pietruszka]

I am in exactly the same boat.

I hate retail! Im sick and tired of arse hole customers who haven't a gram of intelligence or common sense. Ive just had enough and want a career change.

Now, I'm in the very good position where I don't have any ties; no other half, no home (I'm at my mums), no job really worth keeping (sorry to the those who don't have a job, I don't mean to be salty). I joined a club band which gigs here and there, they made me permanent. Probably 'cos I play absolutely anything I'm told.

We're now hopefully heading over to do a hotel tour in Asia, with the possibility of America as well. And we're doing the ski resorts in the Italian Alps this winter for a few months. In all honesty, I can't wait. The chance to play bass, see parts of the world I wouldn't get to see and have you're accommodation paid for to. Yes you have to pay tax on your earnings but there are perks to this; you can claim the tax back on fuel and equipment. Strings are taken off your tax bill.

If you have some connection and play everything that comes your way, get your self out there then theres no reason why you couldn't make a living from it, plenty of people have done it! For me, well, I have nothing to lose so I'm going for it full beans!


Good luck and keep us all informed with your decision.



Dan

[JTUK]

I would add that this job can get very gutty....just like any other so you need to keep your work head on.
Plus knocking yourself out travelling all over to make the money is one thing at 25... not so easy or as attractive as you get older.

Could you stand being out 4 nights a week and travelling 400 miles to and from a gig..???
and more to the point, could your missues and family?

I learned the hard way..there is a lot ot be said for a solid 9-5 at a decent salary and then music is a release.
You can go off music pretty damn quick if that is what you have to do all the time.

To make this work, you'll need a function band that can pull £1600 plus per gig, IMO, for a 4 man band, or multiple of £400 per man for anything larger, which in itself isn't that hard..and you'll need to be doing them most weeks the year...which really is.

Getting the good payers one-off isn't really the problem so much, be it sessions or this gig or that if you are good enough and plugged into the right netwwork of players

Marriage/relationship-wrecker

[warwickhunt]

I should add that I've got a mate that has no problems making a living as a gigging musician and lives life to the max; managing to combine snowboarding with Alpine residencies in a band during the Winter season and surfing and Butlins during the Summer (OK Butlins is stretching it) and he wouldn't have it any other way. Am I jealous? Many times I am but would I swap... I'll tell you when it's too late!

[chris_b]

If you want to become a professional musician just because you don't like your current job, you're doing it for the wrong reason.

[JTUK]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='1127773' date='Feb 14 2011, 10:42 PM']I should add that I've got a mate that has no problems making a living as a gigging musician and lives life to the max; managing to combine snowboarding with Alpine residencies in a band during the Winter season and surfing and Butlins during the Summer (OK Butlins is stretching it) and he wouldn't have it any other way. Am I jealous? Many times I am but would I swap... I'll tell you when it's too late! [/quote]


hmmm sounds ok if you are 22 and what does he really earn? It might support his current lifestyle but it is the lifestyle of a poor singleton, I'd say.
Lives cheaply and rented, banger car and ok for a few years. I wonder what he will think when he sees his mate who has plodded along with the council fo 20 yers with a decent house, family, pension, ect etc.. a very young man's normadic game.

A friend of mine plays a quality tribute band and he goes all over the world, Auz, Brazil, Ukraine and the gigs sound very nice but he is never at home.

I think it is like football... only really really works if you have made great money and can retire on your stash early and play at music for the rest of your career as you really don't need to do anything else.

I only know a handful of people who have done this successfully....and there are varying degres of that..you still see them turn up for £50 gigs which may or may not be fun for them...and these are people with very impressive CV's..

Sorry fr being so cynical, but this has been my experience.

Do it by all means but know the bigger picture....just my 2p..

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1127901' date='Feb 15 2011, 06:58 AM']hmmm sounds ok if you are 22 and what does he really earn? It might support his current lifestyle but it is the lifestyle of a poor singleton, I'd say.
Lives cheaply and rented, banger car and ok for a few years. I wonder what he will think when he sees his mate who has plodded along with the council fo 20 yers with a decent house, family, pension, ect etc.. a very young man's normadic game.[/quote]

He's actually quite a mature guy well into his 40's (gulp... maybe closer to 50 but all the outdoor stuff may have played havoc with his complexion )! His partner is a gigger like him, in fact they are a band in themselves and simply add musicians as required depending on where in the world they are. Not saying it is for everyone and you retirement age will be the telling period. I'm not trying to glorify what he does and I couldn't live that lifestyle nor would I recommend 99% of people pursuing it but for a very select few it will be a way of life that suits... probably absolutely no good to the OP as I'm not sure that it is something you can choose to do later in your working life; it has to be a lifestyle!

[Muzz]

Our vocalist makes his living from music - he has a wedding/function band, can go out solo (he's a great guitarist, too) or in a duo, so he's very flexible (and cost-efficient, too), but he's usually skint: getting gigs week in, week out, coping with cancellations, agent fees, illness - seems like most things that happen impact on his earnings directly. For example, if you've calculated £500 per week is what you need, a couple of £150 weeks mean you'd need to pull a couple of £850 weeks just to break even. What I'm saying is it seems (from looking at my vocalist's example, anyway) that it's far, far easier for the money to falter than it is to crank it right up again.

He's divorced and his kids are grown up now, so he's renting a flat, and has a very understanding girlfriend. Even with this lack of other commitment in his life, he tells the rest of us it's very hard some weeks, and I can see it makes him very weary around music sometimes, and as has been said earlier, making your hobby your job mostly removes a hobby from your life. He also says there's no way the lifestyle is compatible with a happy family life, which is I guess what's behind the 'young/single/not-a-family man's game' concept expressed earlier.

If you've no ties, plenty of drive and energy and you really want to do it, then go for it, but it's not a decision to be taken lightly. Even if I could manage the lack of money and family time, I'd be wary simply for the fact that it'd reduce my enjoyment of playing music - I've been in computers for 25+ years now, and I can't begin to tell you how bored with technology I am...

Am I jealous of him? Sometimes, when he's on a good roll of gigs. Would I swap? Not a chance.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Muzz

[Thurbs]

I have been a corporate dog’s body & corporate hore thorough most of my 20's. Left to set up my own business (the same, but no one is telling you to be a hore, you just become one) and regularly work away for weeks at a time overseas or up and down the country. I could virtually tell you the time table for most trains, planes and have a myriad of rat runs in the car. I drive a big fat car, have a big fat mortgage and earn a big fat wage. What a life hey…

Then I went and saw my friend Stuart (http://www.lettuceheads.com/) who is the bassist and MD of a very successful covers band. It is his only job and they do pretty well out of it. They are very good, regularly tour Europe, have a good fan base and have even ventured in to a rockie-okie, which goes down a storm. It is at that point I decided I wanted a slice of that action.

Because of Stuart’s inspiration, I picked up a guitar for the first time about 18 months ago, practice for an hour or two each day, take weekly lesions and try to gig (for nothing) as much as possible. I hope in about a year’s time I can sell the business and follow his footsteps…

To the OP: I have the same dream… and I say go for it. There are always downsides to any job but if you remember what and why you are doing it, focus on those points then the rest doesn’t matter.

[dave_bass5]

All good advice.
The only thing i can add is to try and get in to an established, or gigging band rather than start one. Its a lot less hassle and if it doesn't work out with them you have at least gained some experience and maybe some contacts.

Although i gig most weekends doing this sort of thing i would never give up my day job. Its not great but it pays the bills and its a guaranteed income.
Ive often thought about what it would be like to gig for a living but i dont think i would want to. I like the idea that at weekends (sometimes during the week) i can go off and do what i enjoy without it being a drag, and it means i have two incomes :-)

I do know people who do make a living out of this and they hate it. The money is good but its the same thing, week in week out.

Guess its not for everybody.

[Gareth Hughes]

I haven't read through all of this so forgive me if I repeat some things already mentioned.

In offer of support for you to do this - it can be done. It's all I've ever done, through good and bad times, and whilst one (not necessarily me) could make a lot more money doing something else, I've made enough over the years to buy a nice house, run a car, not fall behind on bills, get a lot of gear that I'm happy with - and I'm married and have a little kid. Whilst the touring aspect of playing took me on tour for a month when my kid was four weeks old, I'll wager that I get to see him a lot more than if I had a day job. I certainly see him a lot more than my wife does - something she is more than jealous of.

It's all possible - you just have to work damn hard at it. That doesn't mean you have to be the next Victor Wooten, just competent in doing the job that is required. Maybe trying to make one cover band work is a putting all your eggs in one basket. Sure it's good to have a regular band but it's more useful, IMO, to be able to play with a lot of different folks. Most of my work this year so far is with a guy I only started playing with on January 2nd.

I think there's a misconception that you have to be perfect BEFORE you go out trying to make a living playing music. I disagree - in my experience it's been mostly learning on the job. Which is why a dentist can sub for me but I'll never sub for them

If playing freelance sounds appealing do this - go see the the bands you'd like to be playing with, record their set or at least write down the songs the play, go home and learn them (Not necessarily note for note unless it's a tribute band) then go back to their bass player when you know you could cover for him/her. Introduce yourself, explain you're a bass player looking work and that you know their set pretty well and if they ever need a dep you'd love to do it. Sure you might not hear back from 9 out of 10 of them - that's ok, it's a job application in that sense, you won't get everything you apply for.

I know this is easier said than done. I was bricking it the first time I called up a very reputable bass player here that I had heard was looking a dep for a show he was doing. In my head, no matter how polite/sincere I spoke, all I could imagine he was hearing was 'I WANT YOUR GIG!!! GIVE ME YOUR GIG!!!! Well, 12 years later he still gives me work, and vice versa when I can. I know that when I need a dep for something I want a list as long as my arm of competent and willing players.

Sorry if this was a slight derail. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

[mrtcat]

When I was 22 me and my then band (4piece rock covers - v cheesy but v fun - had only played pubs to that point) set off in a van to Austria where we spent the winter doing a about 10-12 gigs a week in ski resorts. We had no real plan other than we all saved for about a yr first then simply drove over, found a cramped cheap apartment in a small town near a big resort and blew most of our saved cash on paying for it for 5 months upfront.

We got there before the start of the season and first thing we did was spend two weeks playing try out gigs for free until we had agreed a weekly schedule of places within a 30 mile radius (can take several hours to do 30 miles in snowy mountains). We'd play some bars from 3-6pm when folk we're coming down from a days skiing then pack up and move to another and play 10pm - 1am somewhere else. Most days we played twice some days just once but it was f***ing exhausting. Worst problem was constant packing down and setting up of gear. We survived the season, drank a lot, snowboarded a lot and had lots of sex (not with each other). At the end of the season we each had about £500 left to show for it which was enough to convince us to drive to Greece for the summer and try do the same again. Sadly that was a nightmare and we could only find gigs for 4-5 times a week so we all ended up doing bar work to try keep afloat. We did it for two years tho and apart from the odd squabble we got along well but it meant we all had to really work together.

I was really lucky that the guys I went with were all committed and really solid guys who got along really well. I still play with two of them. the big thing about trying to make a living out of covers is that you have to take EVERY gig and you have to be able to rely on the whole band to play whenever, wherever without question. I WOULD NOT ATTEMPT THIS IN THE UK as there's simply hundreds of great bands in most towns so we would have never got this many gigs.

[Doddy]

[quote name='JTUK' date='Feb 15 2011, 06:58 AM' post='1127901']
hmmm sounds ok if you are 22 and what does he really earn? It might support his current lifestyle but it is the lifestyle of a poor singleton, I'd say.
Lives cheaply and rented, banger car and ok for a few years. I wonder what he will think when he sees his mate who has plodded along with the council fo 20 yers with a decent house, family, pension, ect etc.. a very young man's normadic game.
[quote]

When I see one of my old mates who has a nice job at a building society,nice-ish house,car family etc. he never seems particularly happy and is just plodding along.

My dad has been a pro drummer for about 35 years now and has done really well out of it,and now I'm following suit.
I've got a nice house,good car,ace gear.....I'm not a 'poor singleton'.
More importantly,I'm very happy with what I do and how my life is. I get to travel all over the place and get paid for playing my instrument.Sure it can be hard at times,but it all equals out. It's only a young mans game if you are trying to make it with an original band or something.If you've got your sh*t together,you can have a good long career as a musician.

I've got to be honest JTUK,but all of your posts have revolved around the money aspect of playing,and there is more to it than that. If you are a bread head,then you're better off getting a regular job. I may be earning less than the hypothetical bloke from the council,but at least I'm living my life and enjoying it-and everything I have is paid for. Too many people plod along and live for a piss up on Saturday night and a two week holiday in Benidorm.

[purpleblob]

I've never done this and never will (mainly because I'm happy with what I currently do and get too nervous playing live now), however might I just make an obvious point (if it's not been made already) that playing music for a living is not much different to becoming a self-employed plumber, software dev, cleaner or whatever.

I started my own business about 5 years back and had the same problems (in essence) that you'll find in this line of work. It's about getting yourself known, you might need to be prepared to work for less than you'd like to begin with - you might treat any low paid of free gigs as loss leaders but don't neccesarily sell yourself short, it doesn't all turn into repeat business and you may ultimately be taken for a ride but equally it may allow people to get a feel for your competence or ability to get the job done, whether that's bringing punters into a club/pub or entertaining an audience on a cruise ship. Once you're established then things may become simpler although you can never rest on past success.

What you might find initially is that money is tight and you're working longer hours than a 9-5 perm. job that your mates are doing but you have to think like your're running a business (which you are) and work hard to get it up and running. Whilst I was starting up I used to spend a lot of time with my kids, I enjoyed the fact that nobody really told me what to do and I enjoyed trying to bring in business - running a band in a commercial world is not much different, it's just that most of the time your hours will be evening based (I suspect) and you'll hopefully be doing something you enjoy doing.

If you feel you have the "get up and go" then go for it.

EDIT: Spelling and context update.

Edited February 15, 2011 by purpleblob

[JTUK]

[b]Doddy[/b] You're right, my posts are all about the money because that is what I go to work for... and that what this hobby full-time becomes, IME.

Getting up at 08:00 and travelling the lenght of Austria and most of Germany in a day for a show and then heading most of the way back a few days later gets to anyone..certainly me.

I agree, I am too old to want to do it now and even if I get offered a nice weekender abroad and am looked after nicely, I wouldn't want to be doing it for too long. The few days are enough.
Don't get me wrong..I'll really enjoy it and get a buzz, but that can get numb sometimes.
It is like anything..do it to death or just plain too much and it becomes a pain...to me, anyway.

As for running up and down the M1 because I have to make that money..it is not for me.
I think I am pretty well networked around here and I know the guys find it tough. I know what they charge and I know what they earn... their tax returns might enable them to keep more of less though..that is the nature of self-employed, limted companies

My plan is to give up work altogether as soon as poss not have to run myself into the ground doing this stuff for bills.
There are some success stories for sure..but there is also an unglamourous side as I am sure you will know.
If I faced redundancy, I'd probably have to consider it as well if I couldn't back into my job market.

I have always been pretty serious about music but I like too many other things as well and a golf and skiing habit does not come cheap. You play your cards the way you want them, though.

For the OP..if it is something he wants to do then do it...just know there are two sides to the story.

The only point I have been trying to make is that it isn't easy and it isn't always great.