Heavy Metal Britannia BBC4 21.00 Fri 5th March

[Jerry_B]

I think Motorhead are great. Always have done! And live that Rickenbacker sound certainly makes it's mark. That said, it's always been common even within the ranks of metal fans that Lemmy and co. aren't everyone's cup of tea.

[discreet]

[quote name='peteb' post='766204' date='Mar 6 2010, 04:48 PM']I would like Motorhead if they got a proper bass player and a singer who could sort of.... actually sing![/quote]

Lemmy IS Motorhead! And what's proper playing and singing got to do with rock/metal?

PS: It's just a big racket and a lot of noisy shouting if you ask me. And you can't whistle the tunes.

[robocorpse]

[quote name='peteb' post='766204' date='Mar 6 2010, 04:48 PM']I would like Motorhead if they got a proper bass player and a singer who could sort of.... actually sing!
I know that this is the opposite view to that taken by most Motorhead fans.....[/quote]

Surely its Lemmys individual stylings that are the key. Nobody else sounds remotely like him, and those who try are just copyists. Total "Marmite band". I love them to bits, always have done, and I am a particular fan of Lemmys sound, especially on "Iron Fist" and "Another Perfect Day"
If you want "Motorhead with a proper bass player and a singer who can sing" I suggest you try out MC5, one of Lemmys biggest influences.

[retroman]

IMHO, Lemmy has got the most distinctive bass sound of any bass player. Some of it is actually quite hard to play as well!

I think the best bass sounds he ever got was either on the "Ace Of Spades" album, or on the song "Bomber", which I think was an 8 string Hagstrom. Come to think of it, the bass sound on the album "Overnight Sensation" was killer as well.

I watched the Iron Maiden documentary the other night, really good watch. Harry is one awesome bass player. Loved the bit where they were sound checking, and Harry was giving it some on "Wrath Child"

[Marvin]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='766143' date='Mar 6 2010, 03:45 PM']I have to admit that my interest in rock/metal has been minimal since 1978, so only the first half of that was of real interest to me.

[u][b]Also on the evidence shown a P bass only seems good for being anonymous both sonically and visually[/b][/u]. The bassists who sounded interesting to me were Jack Bruce and Lemmy, neither of whom were sporting Fenders.[/quote]

Surely that's somewhat of an exaggeration. I've never personally wanted a Fender but I wouldn't go as far to say they were anonymous either in looks or sound, especially considering so many manufacturers try to emulate them.

EDIT: in actual fact sonically it doesn't matter because core tone is all b0ll0cks

Edited March 6, 2010 by Marvin

[Tinman]

[quote name='discreet' post='766244' date='Mar 6 2010, 05:19 PM']..............And you can't whistle the tunes. [/quote]
That reminds me of modern jazz

[4000]

[quote name='retroman' post='766278' date='Mar 6 2010, 05:51 PM']IMHO, Lemmy has got the most distinctive bass sound of any bass player. Some of it is actually quite hard to play as well!

I think the best bass sounds he ever got was either on the "Ace Of Spades" album, or on the song "Bomber", which I think was an 8 string Hagstrom. Come to think of it, the bass sound on the album "Overnight Sensation" was killer as well.[/quote]

Lemmy's tone and approach were my initial inspiration as a player, and I love both to this day. I once recognized Ace of Spades by the first note played on an underpowered jukebox in a packed and deafening pub. That's good enough for me. He can sing too, he just has an equally "distinctive" voice.

The 8 string Hagstrom was only used on the track Poison BTW. For me his best tone is probably the Golden Years Live EP, but it's all good.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Marvin' post='766293' date='Mar 6 2010, 06:10 PM']Surely that's somewhat of an exaggeration. I've never personally wanted a Fender but I wouldn't go as far to say they were anonymous either in looks or sound, especially considering so many manufacturers try to emulate them.[/quote]

Their anonymous in looks because it seems that everyone's got one so you notice more when a bassist turns up with something isn't either a Fender or one of their clones.

And from the evidence on display in the program the default P-Bass sound is an indistinct rumble competing with the guitarist's bottom E string and the Hammond player's left hand part - unless you're Iron Maiden in which case it's an indistinct rumble punctuated by weird metallic clanking sounds!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='766770' date='Mar 7 2010, 11:20 AM']Their anonymous in looks because it seems that everyone's got one so you notice more when a bassist turns up with something isn't either a Fender or one of their clones.

And from the evidence on display in the program the default P-Bass sound is an indistinct rumble competing with the guitarist's bottom E string and the Hammond player's left hand part - unless you're Iron Maiden in which case it's an indistinct rumble punctuated by weird metallic clanking sounds![/quote]

I thought nearly all the bands had the same or very similar tone and mix, especially the older recordings.

I expect some of it was down to the equipment used in those days, As with the Basses a lot of them used similar big, woolly rigs.

[Marvin]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='766770' date='Mar 7 2010, 11:20 AM']Their anonymous in looks because it seems that everyone's got one so you notice more when a bassist turns up with something isn't either a Fender or one of their clones.

And from the evidence on display in the program the default P-Bass sound is an indistinct rumble competing with the guitarist's bottom E string and the Hammond player's left hand part - unless you're Iron Maiden in which case it's an indistinct rumble punctuated by weird metallic clanking sounds![/quote]

To an extent yes, I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure I'd use the word anonymous. The Fender is an iconic instrument, whether personally people like it or not. However, I do agree that when a player isn't playing a Fender the eyes widen and ears go back to see what is being played.
For example, Jack Bruce and his Gibson would make my head turn for a double check regardless that I already know he does play a Fender usually. But then we are both on a bass forum and we can be quite trainspotterish about these things. Ask my wife whether she has the slightest interest in who's player what and the answer is definitely no.

As for tone and mix, I think maybe dave-bass 5 has raised an interesting point about the rigs, and it may be the that most metal bass players felt that was the sound and tone to have, rather than being to do with the innate features of a P-Bass. Personally I've always found someone like Andy Fraser had a more interesting tone. This may sound completely ridiculous but on Songs of Yesterday he almost, to me, sounds like he's playing a trombone. I'll get my coat.

I've gone way off thread, do apologise.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Marvin' post='766809' date='Mar 7 2010, 12:25 PM']For example, Jack Bruce and his Gibson would make my head turn for a double check regardless that I already know he does play a Fender usually. But then we are both on a bass forum and we can be quite trainspotterish about these things.

Personally I've always found someone like Andy Fraser had a more interesting tone.[/quote]
Does he? My recollection of him was always with a Gibson, until some point in more recent times when he started playing Warwicks.

As an impressionable teenager in the 70s my recollection of bass players was that they always stood out when they weren't playing Fenders - Paul McCartney and Chris Squire (Rickenbacker), Jim Lea (Gibson or John Birch), Overend Watts and Trevor Boulder (Gibson). For instance a perusal of what's available on YouTube of the Sweet shows Steve Priest playing mainly Fenders, but my overwhelming recollection of his bass was (from probably the only time he ever used it) on TotP playing a Rickenbacker.

Oh and Andy Fraser is a well-known Gibson player.

Edited March 7, 2010 by BigRedX

[MacDaddy]

got me some quality time booked in front of i-Player than.

[WWRRSS]

It's repeated tonight at 9 on BBC4 I'm gonna get on it.

[dudewheresmybass]

i thought it was reasonably well made, but was a little surprised it only made it to about '82/3.
Where's the rest?

Lemmy is really starting to look quite old now though - i never thought that would happen!!

[robocorpse]

[quote name='dudewheresmybass' post='767406' date='Mar 7 2010, 10:36 PM']i thought it was reasonably well made, but was a little surprised it only made it to about '82/3.
Where's the rest?[/quote]

I reckon it was based on the old meaning of Heavy Metal, and if you go too far past 1983, it mutates so wildly that it would become a 6 hour programme. Maybe if they had done it as "Rock Britannia" to cover '66 to '80, then "Metal Britannia" could cover '77 to present, but even then, it would possibly need more subcategorisation once you hit the mid 90s, there is just too much cross-pollination between genres now, and not enough good NEW British Metal bands.
I think it was initially made well, but ruined in the edit, and those sound effects were ridiculous and very unhelpful, took all the weight out of it and turned some of the anecdotes into little more than Benny Hill foolery.

[thodrik]

Well, I watched it and apart from the inclusion of Budgie and Diamond Head bits it felt like I was watching Deep Purple and Black Sabbath, Rock Family Trees, except at the same time! Since these shows were played later on, made me hear Ian Gillan telling the same stories, but with several different hair cuts.

Seriously though, a lot of the stories have been told by the same guys on so many other documentaries. Its good for what it was but it would be nice if the beeb put any interest in contemporary heavy rock/metal rather than basically pretending that heavy metal/rock music ceased to exist after about 1983, much like most 'rock' radio stations!

Saying that, I though Rob Halford's contributions were brilliant, and outlining the importance of the midlands was a nice touch.

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='765996' date='Mar 6 2010, 12:53 PM']Oh, and anyone think it slightly tongue in cheek they had Nigel "Den Dennis" Planer doing the commentary? Maybe it was just me.[/quote]

Vim Fuego was busy.

I enjoyed it. The enthusiasm of the fans and people in the bands for the music came over well I thought. It looked like fun.
On reflection the HM fans probably had more fun than a punk psoeur like me at the time.

[Marvin]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='767023' date='Mar 7 2010, 04:33 PM']Does he? My recollection of him was always with a Gibson, until some point in more recent times when he started playing Warwicks.

As an impressionable teenager in the 70s my recollection of bass players was that they always stood out when they weren't playing Fenders - Paul McCartney and Chris Squire (Rickenbacker), Jim Lea (Gibson or John Birch), Overend Watts and Trevor Boulder (Gibson). For instance a perusal of what's available on YouTube of the Sweet shows Steve Priest playing mainly Fenders, but my overwhelming recollection of his bass was (from probably the only time he ever used it) on TotP playing a Rickenbacker.

Oh and Andy Fraser is a well-known Gibson player.[/quote]

No he [i][b]doesn't[/b][/i] play a Fender does he! Which is what I should have posted and should have read. Sorry.
[quote]Jack Bruce and his Gibson would make my head turn for a double check regardless that I already know he [size=4][b]doesn't[/b][/size] play a Fender[/quote].

Andy Fraser doesn't seem to be associated with a particular bass these days. On his website he's nearly always glued to an acoustic six string.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Marvin

[Bilbo]

What came over to me (as a fan at that time) was how lame some of them looked - Rob Halford (who I respect) for one looked like he was trying really hard to be rock and roll whilst the absence of a chin militated against it. The Uriah Heep guys looked like they were trying but had given up half way through make up.

But it was a real nostalgia trip and I enjoyed it. Just not too often, please

[discreet]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='768085' date='Mar 8 2010, 03:22 PM']Rob Halford (who I respect) for one looked like he was trying really hard to be rock and roll whilst the absence of a chin militated against it.[/quote]

+1 - Suspect this is why he now sports the beard! - No offence to Rob. Or to you, Bilbo.

[ezbass]

It was OK, but I thought it spent too much time on the 70's origins and not enough time on NWOBHM onwards.

[Rich]

Hmm, I thought the balance was OK. I was particularly pleased that Nigel Planer used the 'ner-wobbum' pronunciation.

I was astounded when it said that Saxon are still touring. I sincerely hope that Biff Byford sounds better than he looks.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Haven't looked at the last couple of pages,so pleeeze excuse me if this has already been mentioned :
I used to go to the Soundhouse in Kingsbury back in the day.
When myself and a friend used to request 'heavier stuff' (Budgie,Motorhead,etc) Neal kay seemed
to love playing 'pomp' stuff (styx ,triumph etc.) I could be wrong about the band names,
but I was only 16 then and Neal didn't seem to like the harder stuff.

Anyway,when I saw him in the Britannia programme he was almost unrecognisable:
gone as the softly spoken' hey man' catweazle figure. He seemed to talk really loud and full on,
a bit lik Gary Newbon the football presenter . Also ,I never recognised him at all.
I know we all age, lose hair(most of us) etc. but he seemed to be the total opposite
from what he was.I hope you know what I'm trying to say

[peteb]

[quote name='Rich' post='768213' date='Mar 8 2010, 04:59 PM']I was astounded when it said that Saxon are still touring. I sincerely hope that Biff Byford sounds better than he looks.[/quote]
That will depend on whether he's got his singing teeth with him!!

Edited March 8, 2010 by peteb

[robocorpse]

[quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' post='768378' date='Mar 8 2010, 07:27 PM']I used to go to the Soundhouse in Kingsbury back in the day.
When myself and a friend used to request 'heavier stuff' (Budgie,Motorhead,etc) Neal kay seemed
to love playing 'pomp' stuff (styx ,triumph etc.) I could be wrong about the band names,
but I was only 16 then and Neal didn't seem to like the harder stuff.[/quote]


We always had the same problem when he moved the Soundhouse to the Clay Pigeon in Eastcote, it was hard work getting any Motorhead, Tygers etc out of him, and the one time we actually asked outright for some Metallica was the week Cliff Burton died in the coach crash, and he just said "F*ck off, I'm not playing any of that thrash sh*t", about 10 of us stopped going there after that, he had a good Metal night, but he was an arrogant twunt.