Mistakes

[Musicman69]

Yea Ron played the bass part on Maggie May..
Mighty good job too, not your usual run o the mill. I never tire of listening to it, class!

[iconic]

[quote name='chardbass' post='729010' date='Jan 29 2010, 05:58 PM']I always wonder about the bassline in Dancing Queen- last chorus over "See that girl, watch that scene diggin' the Dancing Queen" bit.
Its always played with a C♯ passing note between the D and B- last chorus he plays a C♮and try as I might I have to play it whenever I do it otherwise the 'right' way sounds wrong![/quote]


this guy agrees too about the bum note on Dancing Queen

Edited January 30, 2010 by iconic

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='728640' date='Jan 29 2010, 01:09 PM']Here's the Rush Boys up to mischief... 1:19-ish:

[/quote]

I think it's funny when Rush go out of time and play the wrong thing but 19 albums of it is a bit much

[4-string-thing]

wish I could "noodle" like Ronnie Wood!

[Dandelion]

Exactly three minutes in to The Beatles version of "Hey Jude" there is Paul saying "F**king hell"

To this day it remains and has never been edited out.

[Dandelion]

Well its about at 2:58.

[OldGit]

[quote name='witterth' post='729356' date='Jan 30 2010, 12:30 AM']Naaa!! Noodling is for the kitchen, play a bass line.[/quote]


That's an interesting point.
I listen to a record like Maggie May and I think that, for once, the bassplayer got to have some fun without someone - singer or producer or guitarist, say - trying to restrain them and make them play root-5th.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Count Bassy' post='729385' date='Jan 30 2010, 01:30 AM']But surely Rod Stewart's ability to put it slightly off key and make it work is what made him famous.

I can't help but feel that the whole musical word is suffering from over production and the expectation of perfection.
Music is still mostly (thankfully) produced by human beings after all. Personally I think a bit of humanity adds so much to recordings. Anyone with enough time, technology, and 'takes' can 'produce' perfection. To play a song live and get it mostly right, with some feeling takes real skill.

Give me real live music with some flaws and personality over a perfect studio production anyday of the week.[/quote]


There was a discussion on the radio this week about the blandness added by Protools operators who strive for perfection.

I remember years ago someone asking Phil Collins about using drum machines. He is a fan of them but he pointed out that even with sampled drum sounds you still get the same thing each time. When he plays there are inftessimal differences between each hit that mak it "human" and nicer to listen to.

[TenLetters]

At about 3.00 mins into "Let It Be" by The Beatles im pretty sure there is a pretty bad duff chord on the piano.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGSMMOIYm38"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGSMMOIYm38[/url]

Also, an album by John Frusciante called "Will to death" is full of studio noises. Mainly him turning paper as it was written and recoded in a week or so and he had to have the lyrics written out. I know the chilis get stick, and rightly so, but a couple of his solo albums are worth checking out.

Cheers,

[jonsmith]

[quote name='silddx' post='728962' date='Jan 29 2010, 05:28 PM']It is clearly well out. I'll have to listen to the album and see if it's on there. I find it hard to believe they let that slip through, no excuse for that.[/quote]


Probably thought that all but the most die hard Rush fan would have taken the disc out before they got that far into the album (sorry, not one of my favourite Rush albums).

[quote name='Musicman69' post='729410' date='Jan 30 2010, 03:55 AM']Hmm.. I bet we all play perfect basslines in our living rooms or whatever. Sometimes errors lead to new boundaries
and expression. I dont think JPJ played many "bum" notes and if he did Mr.Page would have pointed it out![/quote]

That would truly be a case of 'pots and kettles'. Mr Page's playing is often extremely sloppy. One obvious one from the first LZ album: I Can't Quit You Baby, where Jimmy Page comes in far too early with the chords after the guitar solo.

Edited January 30, 2010 by jonsmith

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='jonsmith' post='729730' date='Jan 30 2010, 02:58 PM']That would truly be a case of 'pots and kettles'. Mr Page's playing is often extremely sloppy.[/quote]
The whole band's sloppy, but fabulously together with it. That's what I love about them. Tight but loose. I mean, what's with that weird rushing/dragging bit around 0:45 (and the other places it crops up) in "Black Dog"? I've seen a few videos of them playing it live, and they didn't do it live... so why in the studio?

Sounds class though.

[chris_b]

Having seen Ronnie Wood playing since The Birds, I think he is a great player and a “one of a kind” personality, but he really isn’t a good bass player. Funnily enough he played a "unique" bass line on Maggie May and so as a guitarist has achieved more acclaim for bass playing than most bass players!!!

But the request was for examples of mistakes which had been allowed through to the final product, NOT do you like the record or not!

[Delberthot]

+1 on Moondance - we put a CD on at breaks and when we were outside the hall, all you could hear was the bass line and its all over the place.

surely every note of the guitar solo at the end of Layla is a mistake? sounds like someone strangling a cat

towards the end of Don't Want to Miss a Thing by Aerosmith, Tom Hamilton goes up to the next note early - its so good that I play it that way as well.

I'm sure there's one in Born to Be Wild that's like the Jean Genie one where the bass goes for the chorus slightly early.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Delberthot

[Count Bassy]

To continue my previous theme:

Do these 'mistakes' matter? would Maggie May have sold anymore copies if it had a 'Correct' bass line? (probably not), would have sold less copies and be less memorable ? (Possibly).

Does playing a C where it 'should' be a C# really matter as long as it works (or even adds something) in the context of the song?

And surely pushing and pulling the timing is part of what brings music alive and gives it swing or whatever.


Music is an art, not a science. It may have 'rules' but , unlike the laws of physics, but they can be broken and bent, and who cares as long as the result is pleasing to at least someone.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='crez5150' post='728968' date='Jan 29 2010, 05:30 PM']the bass on Moondance is at best..... appalling[/quote]
+1, classic case of a rock/pop/blues guy blagging his way through a walking bass line. Interestingly though I think it's a tough sequence to play as if you go too jazzy it loses character.
The original recording though I agree is absolutely terrible walking bass playing.

I'm really shocked by that Rush one, definitely an editing error. Some dingbat shifted the global track along by about a 1/16th of a beat

There is a very obvious vocal drop in on the Carpenters top of the world, can't remember exactly where.. no auto cross fade in those days. Tape splicing a go go

Edited January 30, 2010 by jakesbass

[skankdelvar]

Around the end of the first verse of Greenbaum's 'Spirit In The Sky', half of 'em go back to the root a bit early. Making it very tricky to cover note for note.

[SteveK]

[quote]But the request was for examples of mistakes which had been allowed through to the final product, NOT do you like the record or not![/quote]
Ooooh, get her...

Ok, since no one else has mentioned it...[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F01aLeErvoU"]check 2.44[/url]

Happy now?

[Chris2112]

Reminds me of one of the first recordings I made, I cut a track at the end of the day with a flubbed note on a Kubicki bass which was a big, obvious 8th note. packed up my kit since it was the end of the day thinking I wouldn't get a chance to record the track again. I could have done it the next day, but no one seemed to have heard that awful bum note! It made it into the track and it was only when I pointed it out post mastering that anyone else noticed! I'm not sure how since it sounded like a bloody trumpet exploding.

On the same track, the drummer managed to go out of time, and since the drum track was being recorded with a MIDI hookup and a click track, a good take was punched in over the top since that part of the song was "sparse" with only drums, keys and bass playing. I didn't have the chance to re-record my part and it was left as is, which makes it sound as though my bloody bass goes well out of time since I played along to the original, "slow" drum track!

We live and we learn, eh?

[Vibrating G String]

At 0:53 the smaller of the 2 guitarists seems to be a fret or 2 off It looks like he flinches a bit.




Other than that this song kills and has a great bass solo at 3:23, it's not the most technical thing in the world but it makes me all warm inside.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Vibrating G String

[witterth]

[quote name='OldGit' post='729654' date='Jan 30 2010, 01:41 PM']That's an interesting point.
I listen to a record like Maggie May and I think that, for once, the bassplayer got to have some fun without someone - singer or producer or guitarist, say - trying to restrain them and make them play root-5th.[/quote]
Like you say interesting point Mr O/G...
I think James Jamerson used to "wander" around a lot but he didn't "noodle" around KWIM?, bass lines...inspiring many generations of players.

btw
Level 42 "hot water" on youtube circa '86(?) on "The Tube"........ooopps!! that e is "d" tuned Mr K!!!
mind you he gets out of it with good grace, so it may count for this thread

Edited January 31, 2010 by witterth

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='729840' date='Jan 30 2010, 04:30 PM']I'm really shocked by that Rush one, definitely an editing error. Some dingbat shifted the global track along by about a 1/16th of a beat[/quote]

I'd have thought closer to 5/64 than 1/16 . Has anyone put this into an editor and measured trhe error?

[Marky L]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='729801' date='Jan 30 2010, 03:55 PM']I'm sure there's one in Born to Be Wild that's like the Jean Genie one where the bass goes for the chorus slightly early.[/quote]

Yup, there's a definite bass mistake in BTBW.

[thumperbob 2002]

Theres loads I can think of but the two that always get me are the Beatles at Shea Stadium- the start of I want to hold your hand George plays in like a totally different key. Mind you they cant hear themselves too well and have a good laugh about it.

Bob Marley- no woman no cry- terrible, terrible feedback in one part.

Oh and a record called Zoom- cant remember who the band were- was it fat larrys band? Singing way off key in the chorus- everytime!!

To be honest the audience would really never know a bum note from the bass- but from a singer or timing error from a drummer- thats different.

When I was a young lad I was in a duo with a much older attractive lady ( she must have been in her late 20s at the time and had a great voice ). We were doing this Streisand number I think and it went from quite a high note to a low one for the verse. This lady missed the note quite badly and the audience- in this quite well know cabaret club all went "OOOOOOOh!" I still remember that and laugh.

I always have thought that when a band member makes a mistake these are the most enjoyable parts of playing a gig- I myself and my band members are expert at it!!

Bob

[Al.B]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='729801' date='Jan 30 2010, 04:55 PM']+1 on Moondance - we put a CD on at breaks and when we were outside the hall, all you could hear was the bass line and its all over the place.

surely every note of the guitar solo at the end of Layla is a mistake? sounds like someone strangling a cat

towards the end of Don't Want to Miss a Thing by Aerosmith, Tom Hamilton goes up to the next note early - its so good that I play it that way as well.

I'm sure there's one in Born to Be Wild that's like the Jean Genie one where the bass goes for the chorus slightly early.[/quote]


Finally at last someone who dares speak the truth about that bloody awful solo at the end of Layla. It has made me cringe for years and yet no-one will slate it. On the flip side of the argument I kind of like things not to be too perfect. Nobody wants to be too mechanical and sterile in their playing do they ?? If everything was faultless we'd all sound the same !! However some mistakes are just too sloppy to excuse.

cheers
Al.

[Owen]

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' post='732755' date='Feb 2 2010, 12:02 PM']This lady missed the note quite badly and the audience- in this quite well know cabaret club all went "OOOOOOOh!"[/quote]


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