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Shockwave

Barefaced T'Vintage Review.

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In similar vein, I funded (most of) my Big One by selling two Eden D210XLT's.

Is a Big One "better" than two Eden D210XLT's? I'd say not. Those two Eden cabs were [[i]cliche alert[/i]] absolutely awesome [/[i]cliche[/i]]. I'd rate the Big One as being only about 80% as good as that pairing.

On the other hand, those two Edens weighed a combined 138lbs, in other words a similar amount to my wife, and were just as difficult to take to gigs as she is. The Big One weighs 43lbs and is on wheels, so I can take it everywhere with no grief at all, and actually use it.

In terms of value-for-money, the lightness thing makes a massive difference when you start to get back trouble.

I can't compare the Big One to Epifani, Bergantino, and the usual suspects, but then I don't feel much inclination to do so. :)

Edited by Happy Jack

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As a fellow Vintage owner, I've finally managed to catch up on this thread. My thoughts:

Rob, let the speakers bed in and also play more with your amp EQ. I can get a very 80's grindy rock tone (think Queensryche, i.e. hartke 10 inch speakers and a GK amp). So the 15s are not the problem, it's (probably) the way you EQ. That said, from my experience on the Big One vs the Vintage, I think you may prefer the Big One as it would probably be "easier" to dial in the tone you're after. Maybe.

The construction of my Vintage is top notch, it's been thrown in and out of the band van countless times by our less than gentle crew and it's survived fine.

I think the cab is worth every penny I paid and I'm incredibly happy with the sound, the portability (one hand lift and I have the "old" ply!), the construction and the service I've had.

There. Lovely!

Mert

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[quote name='Happy Jack' post='685087' date='Dec 15 2009, 12:47 PM']In similar vein, I funded (most of) my Big One by selling two Eden D210XLT's.

Is a Big One "better" than two Eden D210XLT's? I'd say not. Those two Eden cabs were [[i]cliche alert[/i]] absolutely awesome [/[i]cliche[/i]]. I'd rate the Big One as being only about 80% as good as that pairing.

On the other hand, those two Edens weighed a combined 138lbs, in other words a similar amount to my wife, and were just as difficult to take to gigs as she is. The Big One weighs 43lbs and is on wheels, so I can take it everywhere with no grief at all, and actually use it.

In terms of value-for-money, the lightness thing makes a massive difference when you start to get back trouble.

I can't compare the Big One to Epifani, Bergantino, and the usual suspects, but then I don't feel much inclination to do so. :)[/quote]

+1..... I miss my Eden rig..... but my back loves me more now

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[quote name='Raggy' post='685092' date='Dec 15 2009, 12:51 PM']Hey Mildman if you do want to compare the Big One next to an NV412 we could have a Swindon Bass bash![/quote]

I'm up for that Raggy! Not knocking the Bergs though - all personal preference innit.

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[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='685108' date='Dec 15 2009, 01:00 PM']I'm up for that Raggy! Not knocking the Bergs though - all personal preference innit.[/quote]

Totally agree, really want to hear/see a Barefaced cab tho :)

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Hang about guys! I never said it couldnt do the AWS tone i was after, that was musicman20. Wil mentioned he perceieved a lack of Mids. I said its getting close to the tone. Stop trying to prove me wrong on comments i never made! :)

It seems to be me that every barefaced user is Whiteknighting (for lack of a better word) Barefaced and making it seem like the cabs can do no wrong, which is very similar to what happened when Ashdown gear was popular on here and was first questioned as to how great it really was. (And look what happened to the opinion of Ashdowns on BC) And another thing is that people appear to be passing comment on my minor comments on the cab itself, when the bulk of the problems in my review were in the experience of buying the cab in the first place.


I have already said i was going to wait til the speakers bedded in. Probably going to run a few music files through it of low bass tones. Alex has emailed me to sort out some settings i can use to get the tone i want, like i knew he would!

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[quote name='Shockwave' post='685186' date='Dec 15 2009, 02:01 PM']I have already said i was going to wait til the speakers bedded in. Probably going to run a few music files through it of low bass tones. Alex has emailed me to sort out some settings i can use to get the tone i want, like i knew he would![/quote]

Fairly sure music playing is not the way to bed them in, too compressed and inclined to be very loud without really pushing the speakers. A 20hz sine in audacity and putting that through will make not much sound and need not much power to push it to xmax (as the speakers are unloaded that low) which is where tyou want is worn in to. Claber cab probably tell you exactly how many volts/watts that will take, although dunno how you'll find out if you are putting that into it.

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I think it should be noted that The Big One at some £675 is significantly cheaper (and way lighter) than the big Berg lightweight single cab (the ae410) at over £1100. And the comparable 2 x ae112 stack comes in at more than that. So a proper price for a proper cab yes. As much? Err no.

I've played both, proper loud but not on a gig, A/B'ed them for a couple of days, and the Big One has a massive sound, certainly full range enough for a real band experience for all but the most clickety clacket of slappers. I honestly prefer the sound of my ae410, but I'd be happy to have got a Big One if I'd not already got the ae410.

I agree that the aesthetics of the Berg stuff is just superb (can a cab really be beautiful? Berg ae series are as close to beautiful as any IMO, thats for sure), and clearly better than the Barefaced gear, but with each tweak Alex makes the Barefaced stuff looks more and more pro.

As for how tough it is, well the one I got my mitts on seemed to be excellently put together, and the fact is that properly looked after I think it would last perfectly well, same as any other cab. It certainly doesnt flex when played at the highest volume I could get out of my sa450 with a lot of bass boost!

As Shockwave recounts he had all the bad luck imaginable wrt his sales process. Obvioulsy thats fgoing to really be difficult to get over. I hope for his sake he finds the tone moves where he needs it to as the cab gets played in more, if he chooses to keep it. I played the other Vintage that was at the Brighton Bass bash (no tweeter) and it was snarling with mid grunt (especially when I slapped the Roscoe through it) but underneath that was properly trouser flapping bass too.

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Jah, it was me who mentioned the lack of mids, but as mentioned by others and alluded to by myself that could be any number of factors at work - impossible to say without running a different bass (without Barts :) ) and amp in front of it first.

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='685287' date='Dec 15 2009, 03:25 PM']Fairly sure music playing is not the way to bed them in, too compressed and inclined to be very loud without really pushing the speakers. A 20hz sine in audacity and putting that through will make not much sound and need not much power to push it to xmax (as the speakers are unloaded that low) which is where tyou want is worn in to. Claber cab probably tell you exactly how many volts/watts that will take, although dunno how you'll find out if you are putting that into it.[/quote]

Sorry i meant "Sound files" Not music files :)

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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='685287' date='Dec 15 2009, 03:25 PM']Fairly sure music playing is not the way to bed them in, too compressed and inclined to be very loud without really pushing the speakers. A 20hz sine in audacity and putting that through will make not much sound and need not much power to push it to xmax (as the speakers are unloaded that low) which is where tyou want is worn in to. Claber cab probably tell you exactly how many volts/watts that will take, although dunno how you'll find out if you are putting that into it.[/quote]

Download foobar2000

Install it

file ->add location

In the input field that comes up input:-

tone://20,6000

And it will add to the playlist an item called Tone 20 Hz

Double click that and it will play a 20Hz sine wave for one hour!

You can even set up a playlist of differing tones and play through them on playlist repeat.

Sweet!

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[quote name='51m0n' post='685289' date='Dec 15 2009, 03:26 PM']I agree that the aesthetics of the Berg stuff is just superb (can a cab really be beautiful? Berg ae series are as close to beautiful as any IMO, thats for sure), and clearly better than the Barefaced gear, but with each tweak Alex makes the Barefaced stuff looks more and more pro.[/quote]this is true bit if you've got compact no.1 its nowhere near as good fit an finish wise as they are now and yet you paid essetilly the same amount.

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[quote name='sk8' post='685299' date='Dec 15 2009, 03:33 PM']this is true bit if you've got compact no.1 its nowhere near as good fit an finish wise as they are now and yet you paid essetilly the same amount.[/quote]

Well thats called product development and as an on going thing it even affects owners of Berg gear.

You buy it having checked it out AT THAT TIME, and nobody out there guarantees to keep your version up to date with yet to be released changes that are purely cosmetic, not even Berg (although Jim comes about as close as anyone I've ever heard of).

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[quote name='JTUK' post='684925' date='Dec 15 2009, 10:29 AM']Not sure you are really serious about 1 gig being a decent testing ground for durability against 100... but if you are, then fine.

As I said before, time will tell whether these have staying power but [b][i]it makes no difference to me anyway[/i][/b]. I wouldn't be in the market.
[b][i]I have no axe to grind as such[/i], [/b]I am just wary of the hype/enthusiasm here.

If it works for the people who buy them, then good on all concerned.[/quote]

With respect JTUK, you do seem to pop up with a "hold on there folks" wherever Barefaced is mentioned, so for a guy that claims it makes no difference, you could conceiveably be perceived as actually having an opinion one (obvious) side of the fence.

Not trying to cause friction - just making an observation.

Personally, Alex's Big One is his most attractive cab to me, but the logistics of even trying one, let alone buying one, are pretty awkward - I'm in Dublin. And TBH, £675 is getting on for what I can stretch to for both amp & cab, so I'm not really in that market either.


Mark

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[quote name='Shockwave' post='685186' date='Dec 15 2009, 02:01 PM']It seems to be me that every barefaced user is Whiteknighting (for lack of a better word) Barefaced and making it seem like the cabs can do no wrong, which is very similar to what happened when Ashdown gear was popular on here.[/quote]

Thats a pretty bold statement.

Its possible, dare i say probable that other Barefaced Owners simply enjoy the tone, weight, value etc. I gave my cab a glowing review because it sounds how i want it to sound, which isnt how you want yours to sound. Likewise mine functions like i want it to function - just because the reasons yours doesn't function how you need it to are Alex' "fault" doesn't take away from mine, or any other satisfied barefaced owners experience. And if you look in the Compact tour thread there are a lot of people who have said they [u]dont[/u] like the compatct for whatever reason.

Its one thing to "white knight" a product, but if your not careful people will think your trying to do the opposite for the sake of it. This isnt a machine that needs fighting!

Obviously its not that black and white with all the problems you've had. And when i spoke to you before you said that you hadn't just given Alex the benefit of the doubt and you'd have waited for a replacement from any company, which is pretty admirable IMO. I know if I'd have received a cab like that it would have gone straight back regardless of where it came from.

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[quote name='Shockwave' post='685186' date='Dec 15 2009, 02:01 PM']Hang about guys!<snip>[/quote]
Sorry Rob, I obviously got caught up in the ramble of the thread! I'm only popping my head above the parapet to offer a balanced view, i.e. that I have had none of the issues you have unfortunately had and I find that there is more than enough low end, mid and top end in the sound (for my tastes) :)

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I have it on good authority that BF cabs cannot be compared to any other cab until you A/B them in a live situation with a full band - therefore most, if not all the comparisons above are moot.

To my knowledge I have only witnessed 1 BF cab in the flesh and I am not surprised by Shockwave's observations on lack of bottom-end and finishing quality.
The one I saw was put through it's paces against several other pricey cabs and it came out by far the bottom of the heap for sound (hence why Alex sprung to it's defence and offered the unique statement about not being able to hear them properly unless in a live situation), finish quality and (subjectively) aesthetics but it was undeniably the lightest cab in the room.

My tuppence on the subject and from what I've picked up from those less bowled over by the hype is that Alex is very passionate about the fruits of his labours but as yet the BF line is still very much at an early developmental stage (what product isn't in a state of developmental flux) and if the price reflected this rather than pushing the line to rub shoulders with more noteworthy, fully developed packages then there would be little room for complaint.

All the best to everyone involved in this... Rob especially.

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[quote name='Phaedrus' post='685364' date='Dec 15 2009, 04:20 PM']With respect JTUK, you do seem to pop up with a "hold on there folks" wherever Barefaced is mentioned, so for a guy that claims it makes no difference, you could conceiveably be perceived as actually having an opinion one (obvious) side of the fence.

Not trying to cause friction - just making an observation.[/quote]

With respect Phaedrus - there's so many guys do the polar opposite with regard to these cabs, it's almost refreshing to hear a dissenting voice.

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[quote name='Shockwave' post='685186' date='Dec 15 2009, 02:01 PM']It seems to be me that every barefaced user is Whiteknighting (for lack of a better word) Barefaced and making it seem like the cabs can do no wrong, which is very similar to what happened when Ashdown gear was popular on here and was first questioned as to how great it really was.[/quote]

Rob,

I think you should take some praise in the fact that you wrote a review giving your honest opinion of the cab. If I had the cash, I would love a "Big One" (oo-er) and it was nice to hear some of the other side of the coin and possible pitfalls involved in getting one, including the purchasing issues, which is always a worry when purchasing from small businesses.

For example, (again if only I had the cash), I would love a custom Shuker, but I reckon that his apparent waiting time (going by users on here) would drive me up the wall with impatience. I'm not saying that it's out of the ordinary or unreasonable, but it's good to know as I don't think I'd be able to wait that long!

I think Alex has answered some of your queries in a way that after the initial concern from your posts, would make me feel better about taking the plunge. Unfortunately I haven't got the cash to do so (have I mentioned that already??)

Anyway, balanced reviews are always welcome from me, as long as the manufacturer has the ability to reply to criticism.

Bally good job well done fellows, in my opinion!

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[quote name='MythSte' post='685400' date='Dec 15 2009, 04:48 PM']Thats a pretty bold statement.

Its possible, dare i say probable that other Barefaced Owners simply enjoy the tone, weight, value etc. I gave my cab a glowing review because it sounds how i want it to sound, which isnt how you want yours to sound. Likewise mine functions like i want it to function - just because the reasons yours doesn't function how you need it to are Alex' "fault" doesn't take away from mine, or any other satisfied barefaced owners experience. And if you look in the Compact tour thread there are a lot of people who have said they [u]dont[/u] like the compatct for whatever reason.

Its one thing to "white knight" a product, but if your not careful people will think your trying to do the opposite for the sake of it. This isnt a machine that needs fighting!

Obviously its not that black and white with all the problems you've had. And when i spoke to you before you said that you hadn't just given Alex the benefit of the doubt and you'd have waited for a replacement from any company, which is pretty admirable IMO. I know if I'd have received a cab like that it would have gone straight back regardless of where it came from.[/quote]

As i mentioned to Alex in an E-mail, i hope it doesant turn out to be what happened with Ashdown gear on here. IE became the fad and then people start to point out the negatives about it, and eventually people cant stand Ashdown. But the way some people go on about their Barefaced cabs in response to my opinions could be for one of the following reasons.

1) They dont want to believe that a cab they spent a large amount of money on may have problems or is not right for them.
2) They dont want their cab to be Devalued in the second hand market by someone elses experiences. (and if anyone knows me, they would know i would be very very wary of this knowing the gear i get through!)
3) Alex is a well respected friend of many forum members and any attack made on barefaced products, people treat as a personal attack on Alex (Which this is not)
4) It is genuinely a lovely cab and really is the dogs bollocks.

I didnt make a sweeping statement that everyone must be lying when they say they like their product, but it certainly "seems" like it as it draws comparisons to the old Ashdown fad.

Again, i think Alex's cabs are wonderful for their loudness and Lightweight, it does exactly what it says on the tin. But in my opinion, its not the be all and end of all of cabs like some peoples opinions are.

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Imagine how bad the people who didn't like them feel!

Edited by Wil

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[quote name='Toasted' post='685414' date='Dec 15 2009, 04:58 PM']With respect Phaedrus - there's so many guys do the polar opposite with regard to these cabs, it's almost refreshing to hear a dissenting voice.[/quote]

I have to +1 you there

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[quote name='Shockwave' post='685186' date='Dec 15 2009, 02:01 PM']It seems to be me that every barefaced user is Whiteknighting (for lack of a better word) Barefaced and making it seem like the cabs can do no wrong, which is very similar to what happened when Ashdown gear was popular on here and was first questioned as to how great it really was. (And look what happened to the opinion of Ashdowns on BC) And another thing is that people appear to be passing comment on my minor comments on the cab itself, when the bulk of the problems in my review were in the experience of buying the cab in the first place.


I have already said i was going to wait til the speakers bedded in. Probably going to run a few music files through it of low bass tones. Alex has emailed me to sort out some settings i can use to get the tone i want, like i knew he would![/quote]
Like almost all other Barefaced owners, I'll put my hand up to being an evangelist. My compact has made my gigging life so much easier, I can't describe it. I gig a fair amout so I'm well out of the honeymoon priod: I got the cab in early April and have done around 60 gigs so far and it gets all kinds of physical abuse. At the risk of labouring a point, I'm also of a generation that equates weight with quality and I've had no issues whatsoever. My Compact is part of what gives me a large chunk of my income and if it was substandard in any way I just wouldn't stand for it, no matter how nice a guy Alex is.

However, Shockwave's issues are valid and he feels a bit hard-done-by in some respects and as a paying Barefaced customer, I believe he has more right to have an opinion on Alex's service than those that have not dealt with him. He's handed over a huge wedge and has the absolute right to be completely satisfied with every aspect of his purchase. I'm sure we all have horror stories of really crappy customer service! Alex's company is still young and mistakes will always happen. Obviously, I'm not aware of every detail on this case but I can see Alex is taking responsibility for any errors and working with Shockwave to come to a resolution.

I wouldn't hesitate to purchase again from Alex and in fact am saving up for a midget to boost my output, now that my band are no longer using bass bins in the PA.

P.S.
Hang in in there for that bottom end, Shockwave; it's well worth it!

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