It's "for charity"

[Dan Dare]

Just been offered yet another charity (i.e. everyone bar the musicians gets paid) gig. Support a good cause, "exposure", etc, etc.

 

As we're not completely heartless bar stewards and the good cause in question was a reasonable one, we suggested we might be paid expenses, so that, whilst we give our time and effort for free, we don't actually make a loss on the evening. Petrol still needs to be paid for, we'll need a drink or two plus something to eat and so on.

 

Cue pearl clutching on the part of the organiser, "but it's for charity, etc". "We realise that", we replied. "We don't expect to profit. We just don't want to lose money". They were not happy, so we said we'd pass, thanks.

 

What is wrong with these people? Are they wealthy dilettantes who don't have to worry about where the next penny comes from? Do the think everyone else is in the same privileged position as them?

[Sean]

In these situations the guys in the bands are the biggest contributors. It's not something I get involved in. You're effectively donating.

 

I used to ask if the bar staff were working free and if the beer profits went to the charity but now I just say, "Sorry, we're booked for a private function."

 

There're plenty of bands that'll play it.

 

And, a good standard response I keep in case I hear "that phrase", is "Yes, I know but we get all the exposure we need at paid gigs".  

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Sean

[Sean]

And, I'm sure I've posted this a few times over the years, going back about 15 years ago a band I was in used to get paid >£1000 or more for doing British Heart Foundation, CF Trust and other big charity fund raisers. 

The mentality is that if you have quality entertainment the punters will part with more cash. 

Edited 16 hours ago by Sean

[chris_b]

I’ve done charity gigs. They cost me money, so I expect to be paid. I object to the expectation that it's OK for musicians to give their time for free and no one else is expected to. They don't use that line on the bar, venue or catering companies!! I guess being a musician isn't a real job, so it doesn't matter!

 

Giving your time for free for charity? A neighbour used to be a senior executive in the Red Cross. You wouldn't want to know what his salary was, and pension now is!!!

Edited 17 hours ago by chris_b

[Gizmo]

Ask what the CEO is on a year ? and offer to do it for 1% of that..

[Lozz196]

I think the way forward on this is:

 

Band Question- are the bar staff being paid

 

Organiser/Venue Answer - yes (as obviously they will be)

 

Band Response - our expenses for this will be the same as what one bar staff will earn for their full shift

 

[Len_derby]

I think we all have to make our own decisions on whether we do a charity gig. 
In response to the question about ‘are the bar staff doing it for free?’ I’d say that the majority of posters on this forum are in a much more secure financial position than the average bar worker.

[Dan Dare]

22 minutes ago, Len_derby said:

I’d say that the majority of posters on this forum are in a much more secure financial position than the average bar worker.

 

That seems to imply that we should feel guilty that we are not paid minimum wage and feel obliged to play for nothing.

 

I am reasonably comfortably off and I don't object to playing the occasional charity gig, but, as I point out, I will not actually lose money. I could afford to throw in the cost of a few gallons of petrol, but I won't, because I am already giving my time and effort for nothing.

 

I fell it's disrespectful to expect me to actually pay for the privilege of playing for free. That's just me, of course and YMMV.

[ezbass]

I’ve done a couple of charity gigs recently for the Teenager Cancer Trust. The organisers, a mod/scooter club have asked in advance what our expenses will be and have also made sure we are well watered (beer or soft drinks), plus they provide PA & backline, which makes it much less of a faff. This is ok with me and we don’t have to do it of course. I think expecting folk to play for free, without some sort of expenses is taking the pee.

[Beedster]

Pouring drinks is not the bar staff’s hobby, for 90% of bands playing music is.
 

Working a bar is a PITA, playing a gig is a pleasure and sometimes a privilege.

 

These are the criteria I use to decide 👍

[Dad3353]

I'm neither jealous nor envious of other folk getting paid more than me whether it's a paid gig or a free one. I give my time and money when and where I want, and if I'm having a good time playing, and giving a good time to others, that's fine by me. For charity or not, I (and the band I have been playing in for the last decade or so...) neither want nor expect to be paid, whatever the event. It's just our way of thinking, that's all. Others do things differently, and that's fine too. Peace. 

[Jackroadkill]

I've played charity gigs for nowt and thoroughly enjoyed being part of them.  I find that having some connection to the charity or knowing the organiser helps.  In my last band we had a formula - everyone in the band gets to call one freebie per year, and this was usually a charity gig.

[Sean]

50 minutes ago, Len_derby said:

I think we all have to make our own decisions on whether we do a charity gig. 
In response to the question about ‘are the bar staff doing it for free?’ I’d say that the majority of posters on this forum are in a much more secure financial position than the average bar worker.

I agree. 

What I will say is that the bookers don't do any means testing and I've played in bands with a lot of folk that do work that is paid at a similar level to bar work or not much above minimum wage. 

 

I've done a few of these gigs over the years and without exception, they've been poor experiences where the bookers don't value the bands, don't treat them in a civil manner and seem to completely forget that you're giving up your time, paying to be there and also blocking your calendar for a paying gig. 

 

 

For context, I do around 500-700 hours a year of charity volunteer work for a (not at all musical) cause that I'm passionate about, it costs me money but I get appreciated, I expand a wide skill set and it does a lot of good for those receiving the benefit. The concept of giving my time/money for a good cause is fine with me but I'm not dragging others into it and unless it's something I know a lot about, I'm turning it down. 

 

I've got a story about one gig I did years ago to raise money for the Teenage Cancer Trust that makes my p155 boil but I'll save that for later. 

Edited 15 hours ago by Sean

[Lozz196]

57 minutes ago, ezbass said:

I’ve done a couple of charity gigs recently for the Teenager Cancer Trust. The organisers, a mod/scooter club have asked in advance what our expenses will be and have also made sure we are well watered (beer or soft drinks), plus they provide PA & backline, which makes it much less of a faff. This is ok with me and we don’t have to do it of course. I think expecting folk to play for free, without some sort of expenses is taking the pee.

That’s the ideal model for a charity gig imo.

[White Cloud]

2 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

I think the way forward on this is:

 

Band Question- are the bar staff being paid

 

 

Yes. But bar work is boring/hard work, whereas performing music is 'fun'. 

 

Therefore, they're doing you a favour by asking you to play. 

[Dan Dare]

1 hour ago, Beedster said:

Working a bar is a PITA, playing a gig is a pleasure and sometimes a privilege.

 

You obviously don't do the sort of gigs I sometimes do...

 

I'd never refer to playing any gig as a "privilege". I'm not bad at this playing lark, having done it for the best part of 60 years, during which time I've done many thousands of gigs, ranging from great through to "Beam me up, Scotty/kill me now".

[Beedster]

30 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

You obviously don't do the sort of gigs I sometimes do...

 

I'd never refer to playing any gig as a "privilege". I'm not bad at this playing lark, having done it for the best part of 60 years, during which time I've done many thousands of gigs, ranging from great through to "Beam me up, Scotty/kill me now".

I always see gigging as a privilege, bunch of folks have made the effort to come and see us, I always remember they have a lot of choice these days 👍

 

And we all have a choice Dan. If it’s your job, fair enough, many gigs will be procedural hard work, and sometime really shit. But if not, and you’re still doing loads of gigs you don’t enjoy, it’s your choice. All of this is choice, I choose to pretty much always help charities whether bar staff are being paid or not. Other players and bands don’t, and that’s fine, something that’s 100% their call and not something I have the right to have an opinion on (although I’m not sure why the latter moan about it so much, just say no to charities and focus on paid gigs) 👍

[Lozz196]

My main thoughts are to cover expenses, not get paid specifically at the bands usual rate. It’s why I used a bar person as an example, for their rate of pay, if they get £50 a shift then that should cover a regular covers bands of 3/4/5 band members on getting there. Or if that’s not doable then a couple of drinks and a sandwich each. I’ve done a few charity gigs where for whatever reasons the charity was close to one of the band members, and at those gigs we were paid expenses. How much I don’t know as in each case we just put the sealed envelopes in the charity pot. 

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I ended up a fair amount out of pocket playing at an all-day charity event over a decade ago — whilst I was inside playing for free and having to pay for my own (soft) drinks, some b'stard broke into my car in the pub car park by smashing the window. I was very reluctant to do any more freebies after that.

[Misdee]

I couldn't possibly comment on this individual circumstance, but something I have learnt over the years is that charity is a business. The higher up the chain you go, the people running the show aren't so much altruists as businessmen and women. 

 

Ordinary folks are brought up to equate charity with giving for free if they want to be a nice person. Those running charities are acutely aware of that and know how to exploit it. The people who give the most proportionately are often those who can least afford it.

[Bluewine]

12 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

Just been offered yet another charity (i.e. everyone bar the musicians gets paid) gig. Support a good cause, "exposure", etc, etc.

 

As we're not completely heartless bar stewards and the good cause in question was a reasonable one, we suggested we might be paid expenses, so that, whilst we give our time and effort for free, we don't actually make a loss on the evening. Petrol still needs to be paid for, we'll need a drink or two plus something to eat and so on.

 

Cue pearl clutching on the part of the organiser, "but it's for charity, etc". "We realise that", we replied. "We don't expect to profit. We just don't want to lose money". They were not happy, so we said we'd pass, thanks.

 

What is wrong with these people? Are they wealthy dilettantes who don't have to worry about where the next penny comes from? Do the think everyone else is in the same privileged position as them?

 

We do a couple of benefits and charities every year. However they are paid corporate gigs . We have done a few non paid benefits for friends & family. 

 

Daryl

[TimR]

Depends whether its a corporate charity gig at a posh hotel, a small local festival, or a local church hall gig where no one gets paid. 

[SteveXFR]

Paid gigs for unknown bands playing original music are a rarity around here. If we only played paid gig, we'd never play anywhere and we quite enjoy it so we'll play the free ones. Pay is a bonus these days.

Playing heavy metal is my hobby. Bar staff and security aren't there for fun so they get paid. The sound tech at our local does it for beer and bands get the same. 

If I was in it for the money, Id buy a white P bass and a white suit and play 80's covers at weddings but thats my idea of hell.

[martthebass]

We do a couple each year. One is for a friend of the band who lost close family to cancer and we donate our services FOC as all ticket sales go to the respective cancer charities.  We also do a mental health charity sponsored event, these are done on a budget so we ask for expenses.