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The heretic thread approved by Roger Sadowsky or For those who pretend tone doesn't come from wood...


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4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@4000

Would it be more accurate to say that you do care what an audience thinks, it's just that you're not going to let that influence your creative process?

 

Obviously I’d prefer that an audience likes it, I’m not that weird. 😂 But it’s really not much of a blow if they don’t. I don’t gauge what I’m doing by someone else’s opinion of it; that way madness lies, in any walk of life. Other band members over the years have sometimes got down if they don’t get a responsive audience but it’s never really concerned me. Audiences - people generally - are so arbitrary anyway. I’ve seen people rave about stuff I think is awful and be disparaging about stuff I think is incredible. In the end, it’s down to you. 
 

But yes, the main point is that it will definitely not influence the creative process in any way, shape or form. 

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10 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

@4000 - thanks. I get that fulfilling your creative urge is your motivation. No issues with that and genuine applause from me (still not feeling threatened btw 😉)

But if you don't care what an audience thinks, why potentially waste their time having to "wade" through it? Why not just keep it to yourself? What makes you want to share it with an audience?

Would it be more accurate to say that you do care what an audience thinks, it's just that you're not going to let that influence your creative process?

 

 

@Al Krow even though I agree with much of what Mr 4000 says, I think that he has a different motivation to the likes of you and me. I like playing live with decent musicians and entertaining an audience. To be frank, I'm not too bothered if it is original music, a tribute or covers (and I've done all three recently) - if I'm playing music that I like with a decent band and there is an audience that appreciates it, then I'm happy. 

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27 minutes ago, 4000 said:

Do people on here really not grasp the concept of creating something for your own enjoyment? Is it really all just about pleasing a bunch of other people who likely disagree with each other? 

 

I grasp it, because I've done the same. But I don't believe it makes it any better or more worthy. The best part of music IMHO is the kick I get if I am able to be part of bringing enjoyment to large groups of people. Doesn't matter whether I'm playing originals or covers.

 

Plus, there are plenty of covers bands who stamp their own style on the songs rather than copying the originals. These bands tend to be more popular because their sound and presentation is more consistent rather than jumping all over the shop. There can be a great deal of creativity in playing covers as many successful musicians have shown.

 

To be honest, 'covers' is a misnomer for what most people do 'playing music composed by other people' is fairer - Snow Patrol and Mozart may not be in the same league, but possibly Snow Patrol offer more space for creative input.

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7 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

@Al Krow even though I agree with much of what Mr 4000 says, I think that he has a different motivation to the likes of you and me. I like playing live with decent musicians and entertaining an audience. To be frank, I'm not too bothered if it is original music, a tribute or covers (and I've done all three recently) - if I'm playing music that I like with a decent band and there is an audience that appreciates it, then I'm happy. 

Agreed! And with due respect to myself Pete, you would be one of the legion of bass players on BC that I would rate myself as being mediocre when being compared to, just so Mr 4000 has the full picture! 😊

 

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1 hour ago, BreadBin said:

I was at a gig recently, the sound was terrible because the bass and guitar were too loud and had too much going on in the sub frequencies. Everyone there kept asking them to turn up because they couldn't hear properly thus confirming the above.

 

I agree - in one of my own gig the drummers dad complained that the drums and bass were too loud. He clearly didn't realise that if we turned it down he would have had to listen to the guitar!

 

27 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

But if you don't care what an audience thinks, why potentially waste their time having to "wade" through it? Why not just keep it to yourself? What makes you want to share it with an audience?

 

I would say to that that he is not wasting the audiences time, in this case it is the audience wasting their own time. And noone really has the right to tell someone not to waste their own time, even the person wasting it.

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

To be honest, 'covers' is a misnomer for what most people do 'playing music composed by other people' is fairer - Snow Patrol and Mozart may not be in the same league, but possibly Snow Patrol offer more space for creative input.

 

Indeed - I liked doing the slap part at the end of 'Run' by snow patrol!

 

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1 minute ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I grasp it, because I've done the same. But I don't believe it makes it any better or more worthy. The best part of music IMHO is the kick I get if I am able to be part of bringing enjoyment to large groups of people. Doesn't matter whether I'm playing originals or covers.

 

Plus, there are plenty of covers bands who stamp their own style on the songs rather than copying the originals. These bands tend to be more popular because their sound and presentation is more consistent rather than jumping all over the shop. There can be a great deal of creativity in playing covers as many successful musicians have shown.

 

To be honest, 'covers' is a misnomer for what most people do 'playing music composed by other people' is fairer - Snow Patrol and Mozart may not be in the same league, but possibly Snow Patrol offer more space for creative input.

I have at no point said that it’s better or more worthy, just that it’s the reason why I do it (so maybe just better for me). Not that I should really have to justify the reasons why I make music, FWIW. 

 

For me, the best part of music most definitely is not the reason you’ve given. It’s the emotional affect it has on me, always has been, whether listening, writing or playing. And what there is of that is simply gained by playing the music; I don’t need an audience. I’m not a very social person really, am quite happy doing my own thing, on my own, or with a band. And as it’s fulfilling the creative urge that’s the important thing to me it does matter whether aim playing originals or covers. 
 

I’m sure you’re right about some cover bands, but sadly that’s not been my experience (which shouldn’t reflect on anyone on here who plays covers). The majority of the cover bands I’ve ever seen - mainly in my area - have played at best passable (and at worst not), often half-hearted versions of the usual songs. As I say, this may be simply a local thing, or maybe I’ve just been unlucky. Having said that, I don’t actively seek out cover bands, never have. It’s just not interesting to me (and these days I find typical pub band volume unbearable anyway), which again is no reflection on people who want to do it. As evidenced by this thread, we all have different motivations. 

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11 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

 

I would say to that that he is not wasting the audiences time, in this case it is the audience wasting their own time. And noone really has the right to tell someone not to waste their own time, even the person wasting it.

 

 

The great irony is that people seem to generally like it. 😁 But - material aside, which always seems to go down pretty well - that could be down to the other members of the band who are likely more entertaining and certainly more audience-focussed than I am. 😉

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5 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Perhaps because you framed playing covers as a creativity-free process of mimicking someone else.

 

If that's true neither Jacqueline du Pre or  Paul Robeson were creative artists.

But I don't read the posts as framing playing covers in that way.

For transparency IIRC I've played (for public consumption) one 'Cover Version' ever. But I didn't listen to the original recording before interpreting it. The guitarist presented it as he would have done with something he had originated and I took it from there.

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4 hours ago, 4000 said:

 

 

“Here Kate, I reckon the second side of Hounds of Love goes on a bit, and I don’t like the way it’s recorded, it’s a bit too reverb-y”. “No problem Ted from Wigan, I’ll re-write the 2nd side just for you - have you any specific suggestions? - and I’ll try and take a bit of reverb off when I re-record it”.  Does that get my point across better?😉😂

 

 

tbf That is proper funny 🤣🤣🤣

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14 hours ago, ped said:

No need to get nasty

 

Personally I totally agree with @4000  like I said, 99.9% of the audience don’t know what’s good for them, in the nicest way possible. But they like it when stuff sounds good. What sounds good is the band as a whole when they’re on form. People play in form when they’re happy with their sound and motivated to play. 

 

Hardly "nasty". I was responding in a similar tone. "99.9% of the audience don’t know what’s good for them"? Really? Wouldn't you say that's more than a touch arrogant? Who has the right to tell anyone what is "good for them", save perhaps a lawyer or medical practitioner?

 

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7 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 

Hardly "nasty". I was responding in a similar tone. "99.9% of the audience don’t know what’s good for them"? Really? Wouldn't you say that's more than a touch arrogant? Who has the right to tell anyone what is "good for them", save perhaps a lawyer or medical practitioner?

 

 

You've taken that out of context massively but that's OK. 

 

My mum likes Boyzone but can't identify which instrument is which, she doesn't care.

 

I bet not many of Marcus Miller's fans care that the 4" spacing on his jazz is so important.

 

Just like I don't care how beer is made, but I like certain ones over others.

 

That's my point, which is proved by this thread somewhat!

 

I bet Marcus likes his bass the way it is. I bet the back of my beer can talks all about how amazing the water used in the brewing process is. 

 

It would be a shame if everyone only produced things that suited a given audience. I've always loved companies that design and make things for a super niche audience, or without one in mind at all, because they love it. That's where the cool stuff lies. And a lot of crap. But that's the thing about art, I guess.

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12 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

This thread would be so much better if it’s title was…

 

The Hilarious Thread Approved by Roger Whittaker For Those Who Pretend Whistling Doesn't Come From Durham Town... 

 

 

Whistling also came from my dad (and from me, I seem to have inherited it). There's a link to Roger Whittaker in that, on one particularly memorable car journey with my folks, my dad whistled 'The Last Farewell' all the way from Reading to Northampton.

2 hours.

Two. Hours.

O.o

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32 minutes ago, Rich said:

Whistling also came from my dad (and from me…

 

No it didn’t, it came from Roger Whittaker and Roger Whittaker only. This is absolutely proven by physics, this graph and my total inability to be able to interact like a grown up.

 

F8A96DCC-5CA7-4896-8328-2CA4922CCDB7.jpeg.e7edcda7607afcfd4e9575cd3fd1047f.jpeg

 

32 minutes ago, Rich said:

There's a link to Roger Whittaker…

 

No there isn’t.

 

32 minutes ago, Rich said:

…in that, on one particularly memorable car journey with my folks, my dad whistled 'The Last Farewell' all the way from Reading to Northampton.

 

No he didn’t.

 

32 minutes ago, Rich said:

2 hours.

Two. Hours.

O.o


My Dad whistled Bridge Over Troubled Water for the duration of our space flight to the Pleiades to visit my Gran. She’s 473 years old and made of spalted pine bubinga that’s been waxed by a swarm of bees twice a day since last Michaelmas. But I keep telling her it’s all in the fingers but she thinks I’m talking about Cadburys when it’s obvious I’m on about Findus. Anyway, I digress, the main thrust of my argument is I am definitely right.

Edited by Frank Blank
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41 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

My Dad whistled...

Is your dad Roger Whittaker? No, because you would have mentioned it if he was.

Therefore, by your own arguments, either your dad didn't whistle anything, or whistling does not in fact come from the aforementioned beardy crooner. Either way, you are definitely not right, and have thus self-invalidated your entire argument.

QED. Or something.

Edited by Rich
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4 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

 

Hardly "nasty". I was responding in a similar tone. "99.9% of the audience don’t know what’s good for them"? Really? Wouldn't you say that's more than a touch arrogant? Who has the right to tell anyone what is "good for them", save perhaps a lawyer or medical practitioner?

 

I’m not quite sure how suggesting I’m a bit up myself as a response to my saying that an audience shouldn’t dictate your artistic decisions is “responding in a similar tone”, but whatever. 😂😂😂

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