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owen

Prejudice means you miss things

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When I was a lad I KNEW that unless you were playing in Weather Report, Lizzy, Floyd or Purple then .......... yeah.......... not really worth the effort.

I knew for a fact that Madness were a bunch of clueless chancers who were clearly just there for the Craic.

As I have realised in many aspects of my life, I was wrong.

What did I know? Not enough, clearly. I have even read Suggs's autobiogrpahy and it was all "yeah, the lads were learning how to play as we went, we made it all up etc etc". That is clealry a narrative and not the truth.

What there is, is a set of really well crafted songs with solid playing and good production values.

There must be tons of good stuff I have missed over the years.

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I still know Mike Barson....key board player and hs brother Ben - and when they were called North London Invaders I was one of their two "roadies" in a small Hnda van.  Indeed, the songs are very well crafted, even the covers, they did a whole lot of learning as they went along and embraced the moment with everything they did, and still do!  A lot WAS made up on the fly, ven down to the videos............... 

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Good point, Owen. I’ve always said that expressing a preference means you miss things too.

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i did the same with ghost, saw the gimmick the masks etc and thought "nah not for me" then I stumbled across a song and ive been in love ever since

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This is why I like listening to the radio. I get to hear things I’d never know about otherwise. In these days of cookies stored on our devices and playlists it’s difficult to  ‘listen without prejudice’. Like Owen in the OP I was snooty about music as a youngster. Now I’m old I’ve come to the belief that there’s no good music or bad music. There’s just music we like and music we don’t like.

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3 hours ago, ProfJames said:

I still know Mike Barson....key board player and hs brother Ben - and when they were called North London Invaders I was one of their two "roadies" in a small Hnda van.  Indeed, the songs are very well crafted, even the covers, they did a whole lot of learning as they went along and embraced the moment with everything they did, and still do!  A lot WAS made up on the fly, ven down to the videos............... 

I remember them as the North London Invaders @ProfJames because they used to rehearse where my band did, at Halligan's Heap rehearsal studios in the Holloway Road,  near Highbury and Islington tube station.. 

It was an absolute heap, just as the name suggested, but it had a great vibeo.

Spandau used to rehearse there too when they were called Gentry. 

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21 minutes ago, silverfoxnik said:

I remember them as the North London Invaders @ProfJames because they used to rehearse where my band did, at Halligan's Heap rehearsal studios in the Holloway Road,  near Highbury and Islington tube station.. 

It was an absolute heap, just as the name suggested, but it had a great vibeo.

Spandau used to rehearse there too when they were called Gentry. 

Great days, used to live just off West End Lane back in those days, not old enough to get in the pubs, played football at the Sobell in Islington and Primrose Hill............halcyon days.........then discovered rugby and liked that more!  Not seen Barso for years.  His brother is a geologist........two great laugh!!

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49 minutes ago, ProfJames said:

Great days, used to live just off West End Lane back in those days, not old enough to get in the pubs, played football at the Sobell in Islington and Primrose Hill............halcyon days.........then discovered rugby and liked that more!  Not seen Barso for years.  His brother is a geologist........two great laugh!!

Definitely - those were good days for sure! 

Do you mean West End Lane as in West Hampstead?

If so, then that's yet more nostalgia for me. I used to spend a lot of my time there at The Railway Tavern and The Moonlight Club... 

I always thought Barson was a genius of a songwriter - 'My Girl's Mad At Me' being a case in point... As good as anything by Sting, Squeeze, Elvis Costello and other contemporary post-punk songwriters.. 

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35 minutes ago, silverfoxnik said:

Definitely - those were good days for sure! 

Do you mean West End Lane as in West Hampstead?

If so, then that's yet more nostalgia for me. I used to spend a lot of my time there at The Railway Tavern and The Moonlight Club... 

I always thought Barson was a genius of a songwriter - 'My Girl's Mad At Me' being a case in point... As good as anything by Sting, Squeeze, Elvis Costello and other contemporary post-punk songwriters.. 

Yes!  Gascony Avenue just heading towards Abbey Road.  Know the Railway very well, Decca Records just around the corner.  Saw Joy Division there to name just one band!

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29 minutes ago, ProfJames said:

Yes!  Gascony Avenue just heading towards Abbey Road.  Know the Railway very well, Decca Records just around the corner.  Saw Joy Division there to name just one band!

Ah, cool..

It was a great little venue back in the day!

I played The Moonlight myself many times and also saw U2, Adam and The Ants, Monochrome Set there amongst many others... 

Eventually, the Decca Records site was taken over by English National Opera and I spent a lot of time there too as my then other half worked for them - in fact she still does all these years later.

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52 minutes ago, silverfoxnik said:

Ah, cool..

It was a great little venue back in the day!

I played The Moonlight myself many times and also saw U2, Adam and The Ants, Monochrome Set there amongst many others... 

Eventually, the Decca Records site was taken over by English National Opera and I spent a lot of time there too as my then other half worked for them - in fact she still does all these years later.

Adam Ant lived in Hughbury..........went to one of his parties..........will tell more when we meet!!!  Also used to be involved in videos mainly out of teh Star Studios in St John's Wood.............loads more stories there!!!

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1 minute ago, ProfJames said:

Adam Ant lived in Hughbury..........went to one of his parties..........will tell more when we meet!!!  Also used to be involved in videos mainly out of teh Star Studios in St John's Wood.............loads more stories there!!!

Sounds good - I've a fair few Adam stories to share too! 👍😊

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17 minutes ago, silverfoxnik said:

Sounds good - I've a fair few Adam stories to share too! 👍😊

Think it was the Birdsnest before the Moonlight as well........... Phil Lynott used it as a local..........

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Blimey - 'tis a small world. I lived just up the road from Halligan Heap Studios (Benwell Road) from around 1975 - 1981.

Halligan Heap was a smelly dive as I recall, with appalling (nonexistent) ventilation. Only recall using it a couple of times. There was also another rehearsal/recording studio just the other side of the Tube station run by a guy called Curly Clayton. He appeared to be a bit of a recluse, but I understood he'd been a well known jazz guitarist back in the day. He lived in a tiny windowless room wedged in behind the studio.

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I did the same when I first got seriously into music...…… it was much more tribal in those days even (or maybe especially!) within a genre. Punk/New Wave was my thing.

Now, many years later I appreciate a whole bunch of different styles, and the young me would not believe that he'd end up liking folk and soul music for example.

Did I enjoy my tribal times though - hell yes. And didn't hurt in the long term.

 

 

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19 hours ago, bassace said:

Good point, Owen. I’ve always said that expressing a preference means you miss things too.

Quite. There is music you like and music you dont like, genre and artist are immaterial. Back in the day I was into rock and prog, but there were songs by Mary Hopkin and Glen Campbell that I loved, and still do, because I thought they were great songs.

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I was lucky that I got into music relatively late and my introduction was the evening show with Steve Lemaq and followed by Peel. I kinda grew to love how Peel would jump genres so much in a way you don't really get now. 
The more I listen the more I seem to appreciate the pop stuff I would have discarded back then. 

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I think generally when we are young we are much more black and white in our views. I was very closed to liking one genre and didn't get that I could acknowledge a pop song as great as it didn't fit my image. I've always liked getting older as I am so much more comfortable liking what I want. And the other side of all of this is that some stuff I thought was brilliant actually wasn't anywhere near as good as I remember it.

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15 hours ago, ProfJames said:

Think it was the Birdsnest before the Moonlight as well........... Phil Lynott used it as a local..........

I'll never forget the Birds Nest in West End Lane, we used to go there regularly in the seventie's when I was living in Mill Hill, but one night me a some friends got attacked for no reason in there by a bunch of blokes with Stanley knives, blood, ambulances, police, absolutely everywhere, I was one of the lucky ones, but some of my mates were badly cut up and suffered for years from their wounds. 🙁

But back to the original subject, I was as guilty as most when it came to being prejudiced against artists and genres that I thought I "shouldn't" like, I definitely have more of an open mind nowadays. 😉

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I recall being horrified with myself for liking Karma Chameleon by Culture Club as it wasn’t punk, I actually felt guilty about this, which looking back is just daft.

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When I first started playing reggae and dub it was kinda frowned upon by the people I was playing with to listen to any other genre , it’s crazy really, I used to keep it quiet that I liked peaches by the stranglers and public image.  someone said to me a while back that they remembered that I used to like abba,  I said, I still do 🙂

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Three of us lived in a flat in Cheltenham a long time ago. We had quite a successful band, a six piece playing Trad because it was what people wanted to hear. But we were modernists at heart at an exciting time when Adderley was in his pomp and Miles and Coltrane were the coming men. We also enjoyed and discussed classical music and the radio was on all day tuned to the pop stations and the pirates.

So nothing was ruled out and I’m sure it made me a better musician if not a better person. Others to judge, of course.

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On 22/03/2021 at 15:08, silverfoxnik said:

The Railway Tavern and The Moonlight Club... 

Klooks Kleek?

😎

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Posted (edited)

When i was young it was all rock rock rock and then new wave.  Now rock is probably the only genre that I rarely listen to.

 

On 22/03/2021 at 10:05, owen said:

What did I know? Not enough, clearly. I have even read Suggs's autobiogrpahy and it was all "yeah, the lads were learning how to play as we went, we made it all up etc etc". That is clealry a narrative and not the truth.

It probably was the truth rather than a narrative. Floyd were like that too and could hardly play. . A lot of bands were like that and most of the bands and acts that we grew up loving were just average noodlers wanting to hit the big time. Music was more of a vehicle than anything else.

Edited by TheLowDown
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On 22/03/2021 at 10:05, owen said:

I have even read Suggs's autobiogrpahy

I wasn’t really a madness fan but I used to have a few beers with Suggs now and again in the early 90s

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