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PaulWarning

Vinyl sales up again

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4 hours ago, 4000 said:

Yeah, the car thing is probably the final nail in the coffin for cds. Have to sayIm still buying them but I don’t know who else is. I dread the thought of transferring all my cds to digital. 

Another nail in that coffin being the disappearance of disc drives on laptops and PC’s too I would imagine. No doubt this would be passed off as a drop in demand for discs generally in computing, but still a handy option to have, in my little world anyway. 

Our kids ( in their 30’s) now don’t have any hard copies of music in their houses, so I can’t lend them anything or do them a mix of stuff, just send them links to check out on YT / Spotify etc. It’s just a generational thing I guess, with some people liking the ‘retro’ aspect of vinyl to complement this maybe. Could be that it’s more real to them after they’ve got used to listening to stuff via bloody Alexa / Bluetooth / wireless home systems etc? 

I didn’t take to CD’s very readily, sticking with my vinyl until it was hard to get stuff new anymore. Nowadays I buy a lot of my CDs for next to nothing, usually via Music Magpie on eBay. If I pay more than £2 for one then it had better be good! Can’t see me changing anytime soon either, although I do worry whether affordable CD players will disappear. When I bought my last one, I went to collect it from Curry’s near Leeds ( hate the shop but it was on a great deal so I caved in). They wouldn’t reserve it for me over the phone, so I had to just go and hope it was still there, being the last one they had and on display in the shop. The young lady on the counter asked me to go and get it from the shelf on the shop floor as she didn’t know what a CD player was / looked like! I knew then I was doomed......

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22 minutes ago, casapete said:

Another nail in that coffin being the disappearance of disc drives on laptops and PC’s too I would imagine. 

 

yes, I've just bought a new laptop, had to get an external USB drive for it, only £12 though, CD's are on the way out but they'll probably be a revival in about 20 years 😂

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Not in 20 years, it's happening right now @PaulWarning as Pro-Ject, one of the leading manufacturers of turntables who believed in the vinyl comeback, has started a new range of CD-Transports... for the same sale reasons as the previous medium. Worth reading the introduction comment :

https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/cd-box-rs2-t/

This market based essentially on nostalgia for the oldest and discovery for the youngest is not a niche one at all...

Edited by Hellzero
Missing word
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Having flown the flag for vinyl even well into the CD age, I appear to have inadvertently become fashionable by default. I would wager a fair few of those vinyl sales during lockdown can be traced directly to my house.

I like all the formats and find streaming good during exercise and CDs are okay in the car but I do love the ritual of putting on a record.

IMG_4002.jpg.e89ee91d02641e1cd58917606b866e0f.jpg

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I am a living cliché, I'm 51, my favourite ( though not exclusively) music is rock/metal, I still buy and prefer CDs ( though do have spotify for research purposes) as I find the sound is more to my liking, I value sound quality, also my car has a CD player so it's great to 'grab and go' whatever I'm in the mood for. My son is 20 and majors on streaming and, yes, has started a vinyl collection too 😆😆😆
Hopefully between us we can keep recording artists in business for a few more years.

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We had a similar thread on this not that long ago...so I may be repeating myself here

My mates in signed bands tell me that they are selling huge amounts of vinyl at gigs (well, they were when gigs were still a thing) because people want the artefact - vinyl is much nicer to have and hold than a CD, and feels more collectable than CDs

I've slightly fallen for the hipster side of it - having the album being the main motivation, rather than playing the music (although I do listen to vinyl regularly).  I sold off most of my enormous vinyl collection some years ago, once I'd replaced most of it with CDs (with vinyl having previously replaced the cassette versions that I had as a teenager), I'm now buying vinyl of the same albums.  It is simply much nicer to have an album, to look at the artwork, etc.  And there are some tracks which only appear on vinyl - for instance some of the live albums in the Metallica box sets are only on vinyl, as is one of the two live albums and the disc of alternate takes, etc in the recent Ace Of Spades box set.  And Nine Inch Nails has done specific mixes of their old albums for vinyl, which sound stunning, and deliberately different to some of the mixes on CD

I have to say, the quality of a good modern remastered repressing is way ahead in quality than some of the old vinyl that I held on to, albeit that it now costs more than a CD, whereas back in the day CDs cost loads more than vinyl. 180g is being used as a proxy for good sounding vinyl, but it's the mastering that is key, not the weight

In terms of quality, and having checked both on a pretty decent system, CDs probably have the edge, and some vinyl can sound noticeably different, whether deliberately or not, but for a good pressing of newly mastered vinyl you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference.

For one of my favourite albums, on CD one track goes straight into a drum fill that starts the next track - a brilliant transition between songs.  On vinyl this is completely lost as the two tracks are on different sides of the disc.  But more tellingly, the vinyl mix sounds different, and I prefer the CD for this particular album (but annoyingly the vinyl has two extra songs)

Working from home has made a difference to me - I typically buy CDs and then put them on to my iTunes, and until lockdown did most of my music listening on the way to and from work.  I now do most of it while on my daily walks, but I can now sit in the front room and work with vinyl on the stereo

I note from recent media coverage that the top ten vinyl sales for the year are mainly old "classic" albums - Nirvana, Fleetwood Mac, etc, whereas CDs (which still sell much more than vinyl) are current and re-releases, and cassettes are largely new releases.  There's an article on the BBC website which includes an interview with a record label that releases everything on cassette (I'm not sure if they were saying they only release on tape, or if all their releases are available on tape as well as other mediums) which stressed that the quality of cassettes is higher than in the old days, but admitted that "hipster" explains most of the sales, with people wanting to post pictures of their cassettes on Instagram more than they actually want to play the cassette itself.  I guess that anything which increases sales of music and thus payments to musicians is a good thing, regardless of why people are buying it or whether they are playing them

I will be buying my first tape in about 35 years in the New Year - part of a bulk package for the new Gang of Four album, which works out cheaper than buying all the other items without the cassette.  AC/DC had a pretty strong push on cassette sales for their latest album too, and seem to recognise that people weren't necessarily buying them to play, as you could get sets of four in different colours

Having seen the price of vinyl that I sold off a couple of decades ago increase to amazing levels (seriously - stuff I sold for a couple of quid would now fetch a couple of hundred quid) I'm hoping that the cassette revival will increase the box full of tapes in my loft from zero to, well, anything more than zero would be an improvement...can't see it though...

Edited by Monkey Steve
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IME vinyl weight once you get over 120g has zero impact on the sound of the pressing. I still have a few albums from the 70s and 80s on vinyl that have never had a digital re-release and a modern 120g pressing makes them feel like flexi-discs in comparison.

These days I only buy vinyl if I really want the music and it isn't available in any other format. I then go through the rigmarole of transferring it to my iTunes server in 24bit uncompressed format, editing out any pressing faults in the process. From their it can be copied onto any of my mobile devices as required.

IME modern vinyl pressings are far, far better than the typical records of the late 70s and 80s. They have to be or no-one would buy them. Most of what I bought back then were DIY/Indie releases and it wasn't uncommon to find releases that had problems throughout the whole pressing run. I can remember going through my local record shop's entire stock of one particular album in an attempt to find a copy that had been pressed on-centre. There weren't any. Even when John Peel played a track off his copy you could hear that it wasn't right.

BTW the last time I had anything produced on vinyl the advice from the cutting/pressing plant was that for the highest quality reproduction you needed to keep the running time under 10 minutes a side and cut/play at 45rpm. Reducing the speed to 33rpm and/or increasing the running time of the side would reduce the quality of the record.

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I'm sticking with CD's. I bought 7 overall for Christmas, of which 5 were for Mrs B and two for both of us. Three of the 7 were classical  and the other 2 were past rock-pop classics. Music-Magpie was good for 4 of the discs. No point in having a good hi-fi if you don't feed it with quality. If we then want to rip to mp3 for the car then it's all possible; the car also still has a CD/mp3 player & a wacky SD card slot. Old laptop & this new desktop both with DVD/re-writers.


 Vinyl was the quality of it's time, that time has now past. Sure, mp3's, Spotify and assorted download sources are OK for general listening, as has been said, but when I want to bathe in the best classical or jazz then only CD's do the job.


Vinyl buys are reserved for feeding to my grandson on his birthday  & Christmas.

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I love these threads . There are always pros and cons , for and against which format is seen to be best . Many tangents . 

I still have a fair bit of vinyl , but way less than when CDs first came on the scene . We all know that when cds first came out , they were bloomin ' expensive . They were in ADD DDD etc and DDD was at the time said to be the best quality . A lot of bands rushed out  awful quality like Black sabbaths castle communications stuff which was appallingly bad . 

The annoying thing about being a fanboy of music is that cds were being made with extra tracks not on vinyl . The sound quality and mastering improved . I of course started selling my vinyl and buying the cd equivalents over the years . I found the original pressings of albums from hawkwind and sabbath were far and away much better than the later pressings . 
Tangerine dream and klaus Schulze sound much better on cd as there is no frying bacon sounds or clicks etc . Just my opinion of course . The album covers from those bands are grear though . 
In the '90s I noticed that the stones had their original albums made on cd the way the vinyl was . Sticky fingers for example has the zip! The price for those was around £8 . Far less than when cds first arrived . 

In terms of my stereo setup , I too started  on the dual cs505 turntable.

My best CD player at the time was a Philips one which I would've kept but the price in repairing it wasn't worth doing . I have a nackamichi 5cd player which is close enough . I always swear by heavy speaker cable . Back in the mid '90s I had a rega planar 2 turntable . However a friend knew of a possible pink triangle ( which needed a new arm ) may be available . I still have it , and it is heavier than Gemma Collins . More punch than Tyson etc 

Having said all of that , and living in a small flat I often think if it's worth keeping all the vinyl . I will always purchase cds . I think the only annoying thing about cds are the digipacks ., Too bulky which will decompose in time 

I have paid my dues to the record industry many times over . Most of us have .

I have transferred a lot of my cds to my hard drive . Pita and time consuming 

The quality on I phone is great if you have decent headphones . 
However, I have started buying cheap downloads of albums which is very good quality and saves me a lot of hassle these days . I'm still paying , so that's ok . 
As I am old and been around the block , I'm beginning to avoid expensive rip offs unless there really is something of value . I sold my metallica lightning box set as it was gathering dust and I have their best albums on Japanese imports which to me is a great sound . I sold the binge and purge video box set as that will be released again within the next 5 years . I sold my slayer box set . What was funny about those is that the sponge evaporated and they were unplaced for many years .  I still have the tangerine dream '70-'80 box set , but have purchased the latest cd box sets as they are not too expensive, look cool and have unreleased stuff.

I could be wrong , but if you  buy legitimate downloads , it still belongs to Apple for example . If you buy the cd it is yours. Plus you can put it on your hard drive . 

One other thing : living in a small flat ..some of those soundbars and speakers are improving . Not there yet , but not far off of true stereo sound . Naim muso for example . If a soundbar ever matches a stereo I may sell vinyl , stereo etc and just get that . My tv goes through my stereo which is great for watching you tube etc .

For music DVDs I don't know if I should buy downloads of them for space and convenience . 
 

Anyway, I'll leave it there ..

 

 

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4 minutes ago, RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE said:


 

Anyway, I'll leave it there ..

 

 

so you haven't yet got into the 5.1 mixes on DVD and blu ray?  Life changing...

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I'm not surprised that vinyl is seeing a continued resurgence.

If I'm buying new music I'll ways look to buy it on vinyl first.

This will generally be artists in a similar or related niche to the music I'm involved with.

If I can't get it on record I'll go for CD and  I also buy classical musoc on CD generally after checking out versions on youtube or similar.

I don't like downloads or streaming both from a sound quality point of view or ethically (specifically spotify).

If an artist I like only has their music on bandcamp download rather than physical product I have to think hard about whether I'll buy it :

Once it goes into a harddrive library it tends to disappear - scrolling through itunes is the least engaging way of thinking about music I can imagine.

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In my world there is place for both vinyl and CD. IME albums recorded in the analogue domain, such as classic/prog rock from the 60's and 70's, rarely if ever transfer well onto CD. That is why I still have a turntable, as my vinyl collection is very much taken up with such recordings.

Modern recordings are often a digital master pressed onto vinyl, so give me CD every time.

 

Edited by leroydiamond

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The physicality of vinyl is the big thing for me. A record in its sleeve is a work of art.

I buy CDs today for cost and ease of ripping (and because my hifi hasn't been set up for about ten years), and I note that these days nice card sleeves are the thing not nasty jewel cases. Even a simple card slip is better than a crap case.

I can't wait to get my hifi set up again, maybe with new speakers, once the divorce stinky poo is over.

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One of the great things I like about my iTunes music library, is that if I just want to listen to "some music" I can just hit random play and not have to spend ages thinking about what I want to hear. The library is my ultimate "radio station" there are no crap tracks - any album fillers, uninspired B-side remixes, or bands I'm simply not interested in from compilation albums can be dismissed with a click, and a second click ensures they will never be inflicted on me again.

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The main thing that would prevent me from returning to vinyl is the cost. With albums anywhere from a shade under £20 each to £30 +, it's enough to make me stick with the CD format for now. As mentioned above, apparently a growing number of people are buying the vinyl issues from bands they like as a sort of collectors item, and probably won't ever be playing them. 

Must admit that whilst I've always had okay hi-fi set ups, I've never gone down the audiophile route and spent eye watering amounts on gold plated mains leads and speaker cables spun by unicorns etc. For me the music has always been the important bit, and how you get to hear it less so. From my experience in record retail in the 70's, most people who bought expensive Japanese pressings and quadrophonic recordings (remember those?) tended to like music which suited that level of investment in the first place - ambient trippy stuff or the more obscure classical / avant garde material. We dreaded selling to these folk as they invariably came back to query the quality or even recording of their (expensive) purchases. All I needed then (and come to think of it now really..) for playing my music collection is something that sounds good to my ears and will last a long time. I've used NAD stuff for ages now, and only needed two CD players in nearly 30 years so quite happy with it. Also got my NAD3020 amp my dear old Mum bought me in the 80's too, and it still sounds great.

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I can well understand the relative rise in vinyl sales, but did notice back then that I didn't use the LP when I had the CD too, so I sold most of my LPs and bought CDs for the money. Still miss LPs as well as their covers, and have contemplated going back, also seeing a friend of mine has a great time with his LPs.

Can't resist telling again (in short) that when I had summer jobs at Philips, with the calculations on board, I asked them for two tiny favours only:
- Make the CD 12" like the Laser Disc, and keep the large paper sleeve. Answer: Nope!
- Give us 24-bit / 88.2 kHz. Answer: Nope!
I never manage to feel they were entirely right in this.

But what does this teach us?
Back in the days, Philips were not especially inclined to do boys with summer jobs any favours!

 

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1 hour ago, Monkey Steve said:

so you haven't yet got into the 5.1 mixes on DVD and blu ray?  Life changing...

Hmmm... good point . 
The only things  though , are that I don't have a huge dvd collection .

plus I live in a small flat 😾 

I'm open to change though ..

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17 minutes ago, RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE said:

Hmmm... good point . 
The only things  though , are that I don't have a huge dvd collection .

plus I live in a small flat 😾 

I'm open to change though ..

If you have downstairs neighbours then they may not like you for getting a sub woofer for the .1 part of the set up 

but while they still aren’t common, a lot of the 5.1 mixes are genuinely stunning - I guess like quadraphonic would have felt back in the day

Rush’s recent re-releases, as well as Jethro Tull’s, are probably the highlights of the stuff I have, although there’s a 5.1 mix of Ace of Spades in the latest Motorhead box set that is well worth listening to (added bonus, the DVD also has their appearance on Tiswas)

not all are as good - the 5.1 mix of Doolittle by the Pixies didn’t do anything for me

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51 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

One of the great things I like about my iTunes music library, is that if I just want to listen to "some music" I can just hit random play and not have to spend ages thinking about what I want to hear. The library is my ultimate "radio station" there are no crap tracks - any album fillers, uninspired B-side remixes, or bands I'm simply not interested in from compilation albums can be dismissed with a click, and a second click ensures they will never be inflicted on me again.

I do sometimes wonder if this sort of thing is a potential negative though.

As a kid, if I'd bought a record (or tape, usually) it meant that I'd invested serious money in it and if I didn't enjoy it straight away I'd keep bashing away at it until I liked it or was sure I didn't. Still do that nowadays, to be fair.

With a generation or two now reliant on streamed music, I do fear that the stuff that isn't instantly gripping can fall by the wayside. I suppose CDs made an early start on this by making it easy to skip tracks rather than having to play the whole album through to hear favoured tracks...

A slight aside - does anyone else here use the Logitech Squeezebox/Media Server systems for their listening?

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37 minutes ago, casapete said:

Also got my NAD3020 amp my dear old Mum bought me in the 80's too, and it still sounds great.

DifferentTenseHoopoe-max-1mb.gif

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53 minutes ago, casapete said:

The main thing that would prevent me from returning to vinyl is the cost. With albums anywhere from a shade under £20 each to £30 +, it's enough to make me stick with the CD format for now. As mentioned above, apparently a growing number of people are buying the vinyl issues from bands they like as a sort of collectors item, and probably won't ever be playing them. 

Must admit that whilst I've always had okay hi-fi set ups, I've never gone down the audiophile route and spent eye watering amounts on gold plated mains leads and speaker cables spun by unicorns etc. For me the music has always been the important bit, and how you get to hear it less so. From my experience in record retail in the 70's, most people who bought expensive Japanese pressings and quadrophonic recordings (remember those?) tended to like music which suited that level of investment in the first place - ambient trippy stuff or the more obscure classical / avant garde material. We dreaded selling to these folk as they invariably came back to query the quality or even recording of their (expensive) purchases. All I needed then (and come to think of it now really..) for playing my music collection is something that sounds good to my ears and will last a long time. I've used NAD stuff for ages now, and only needed two CD players in nearly 30 years so quite happy with it. Also got my NAD3020 amp my dear old Mum bought me in the 80's too, and it still sounds great.

I had the nad back in the day . Brilliant amps !👍

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22 hours ago, Jonesy said:

I've just catalogued my vinyl collection with the Discogs app, which sounds incredibly boring, but nevermore will I end up buying doubles!!

Same here, an excellent lockdown pastime (for a few weeks anyway)

There were some pleasant surprises to be had!

Edited by toneknob

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30 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

If you have downstairs neighbours then they may not like you for getting a sub woofer for the .1 part of the set up 

but while they still aren’t common, a lot of the 5.1 mixes are genuinely stunning - I guess like quadraphonic would have felt back in the day

Rush’s recent re-releases, as well as Jethro Tull’s, are probably the highlights of the stuff I have, although there’s a 5.1 mix of Ace of Spades in the latest Motorhead box set that is well worth listening to (added bonus, the DVD also has their appearance on Tiswas)

not all are as good - the 5.1 mix of Doolittle by the Pixies didn’t do anything for me

Love rush ..and indeed prime Motörhead . I would imagine that'd sound great on 5.1 especially moving pictures . Levitation would sound fantastic . Unfortunately I'm on the ground flr with large bay windows . 
We live in a disposable world now , with gadgetry improving and space saving ideas for the likes of me . Keeping one eye open is the best way for me I guess 😺

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21 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

I do wonder about the relative prices of the equipment.  A good, hifi, turntable seems to be more expensive than a good, hifi, CD player.  Less robust too....

With £400 to invest in a turntable and vinyl, and the same £400 to spend on a CD player and CDs, which would get you a better outcome?
 

Define "better".


If you want something which sounds as close to what the band and producer were aiming for in the studio as commercially possible without going into super high-resolution digital audio, CD without doubt.

If you want something with fuzzy warm low end and a lack of detail which some find pleasing to the ear and others claim is pleasing to the ear, then records.

Do you have an impressive beard? :ph34r:

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